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Child Item

Padraig Nally is attacked again!

Mr Williams

Shocking story you would think any robber would know better than to try and rob Padraig Nally.

http://www.thestar.ie/star/padraig-nally-on-traveller-gang-confrontation-all-the-bad-memories-came-back-58205/

FARMER Padraig Nally was forced to call in gardai after confronting a three-man Traveller gang who he believes were about to rob him.
Mr Nally (70) — who shot dead intruder John ‘Frog’ Ward on his Cross farm in Co Mayo in October 2004 — said the confrontation left him shaken and brought up “a lot of bad memories”.
Speaking with The Star, Mr Nally — who has campaigned for increased protection for homeowners — said it took gardai half an hour to arrive after he chased the trio out of his yard.
“It shook me up. I didn’t like seeing them there — it brought up bad memories,” he told The Star.
Smart

“I was after coming back through the fields and the three of them were there interfering in the yard.
“I’d no doubt if they’d got more time they’d have started taking stuff — they were there for no other purpose.
“I told them to get off the property, that they’d no business here. They were trying to act smart and they were humming and hawing about leaving until I called the Gardai.
“They were looking for trouble.

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Wibbs

fits wrote: »

This thread! Replace all mention of travellers with blacks. See how it sounds then.

Not quite. Take "Blacks", Afro Caribbean folks in the UK. You will find many doctors, teachers, IT types, and a whole heap of professionals who are from that demographic. And they did that within a generation of arriving by taking advantage of free education(up to third level anyway) and other social help. Yes there are problems in ghetto type areas(ditto for "Whites").

The difference with the Traveler demographic here is more and more they are ghettoising themselves. Yes there are also many Travelers that are making a valued contribution to wider society, but the tendency is strong for them being settled Travelers(often for a couple of generations back). People who took advantage of free education, social housing and the rest to integrate into the wider society, while keeping many of the traditions of their history and culture. They were/are the folks who took advantage of the social help and made hay with it. The ones who haven't are nigh on forced by their more recent culture not to come into the fold, even if they want to.

Take Frog ward. His son has been gaoled for various crimes including theft and fraud, yet what chance did he have if had wanted to be a doctor? He wasn't born like that, he was born into it and until that cycle is changed where a minority of dodgy types control the wider community and do so through generations then the problems will always remain and no amount of pla mas from Pavee Point will change that.

Wibbs

crybaby wrote: »

The guy's opinion has nothing to do with being a lefty or being a liberal

Lots of us lefty liberals support Padraig Nally so leave us out of it

Oh sure CB, but which part of the spectrum is most likely to wheel out the cultural relativism and feelz on such points, the right? This kinda thing almost exclsuively comes from the "left" and "liberal", or those who identify as such. Maybe another affiliation is required for this kinda thing? I'd go with hippies myself *Cartman voice*

Willfarman

floggg wrote: »

Yes, it must have been very hard for him standing over a wounded and man and shooting him dead.

What he shot wasn't a man it was a parasitic rodent.

floggg

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Jesus, if I were that guy I'd want to have a couple of freshly dug graves ready on my land at all times. He should buy a backhoe.

And how did he get wounded? Just minding his own business, walking along the street?

I have no quarrels with him taking the first shot, and would defend his right to do so.

Once the thief was down and injured, he only needed to pick up the phone and call the Gardai. Regardless of whether the man lived or died from that point, i would have been in full agreement with what he did.

Self defence or defence of property rights is one thing. Taking the decision to unnecessarily take a mans life - that's another thing entirely and something I will never condone.

The person he shot should should have been arrested and jailed if he was attempting to steal from him. But last I checked we didn't he capital punishment in this state, nor was Patrick Nally empowered by anybody to administer justice.

Maybe I'm just a crazy leftist though, what with my respect for life and all.

(Good insult by the way whoever called me that. It's not only stinging, but also shows you are clearly an informed individual with an understanding of political and moral beliefs)

ColeTrain

Sociopath2 wrote: »

Padraig Nally was an old man who wanted to be left alone to live his life in peace.

Frog Ward was a violent habitual criminal who went looking for an easy target to prey on and brought his son along to teach him the family trade.

Frog's 80+ convictions didn't deter him from attempting a violent armed robbery on an old man.

All the time he spent in prison didn't deter him.

The suspended sentences he got didn't deter him.

Neither did community service, fines or the probation services.

outstanding charges and warrants for his arrest didn't deter him either.

That 12 gauge finally did though.

Frog wasn't a poor innocent victim. He was a violent criminal scumbag that clearly wasn't going to be rehabilitated. He got what he deserved.

But there's always someone who'll defend an animal like that, always out of some warped sense of social justice and always someone who has never actually encountered one of these animals.

Spot on.

[Deleted User]

The only mistake Nally made was he didn't shoot wards son too, another pure and utter scum bag who has been in numerous incidents since.

Its a feckin rocket launcher he should be given never mind denying him his shot gun.

floggg wrote: »

The person he shot should should have been arrested and jailed if he was attempting to steal from him. But last I checked we didn't he capital punishment in this state, nor was Patrick Nally empowered by anybody to administer justice.

If Ward had lived that day Nally would most likely be dead by now, he had to finish him. Also as he was cleared of any wrong doing it would appear that the state is in agreement with his actions.

the_syco

fits wrote: »

This thread! Replace all mention of travellers with blacks. See how it sounds then.

Black people are civilised. They integrated, and became great workers, teachers, musicians... oh, and paid tax.

How about you replace all mention of travellers with Nazis. See how it sounds then.

tomwaterford wrote: »

I don't really see the diffierenfe this will make Tbh???

IMO, they'll sue you easier when you refuse them.

floggg wrote: »

Once the thief was down and injured, he only needed to pick up the phone and call the Gardai. Regardless of whether the man lived or died from that point, i would have been in full agreement with what he did.

Frog would've been gone by the time the Gardai came, and the Gardai wouldn't be of any use when the traveller with 80+ convictions who had no fear of the law came back with friends.

suicide_circus

floggg wrote: »

I have no quarrels with him taking the first shot, and would defend his right to do so.

Once the thief was down and injured, he only needed to pick up the phone and call the Gardai. Regardless of whether the man lived or died from that point, i would have been in full agreement with what he did.

Self defence or defence of property rights is one thing. Taking the decision to unnecessarily take a mans life - that's another thing entirely and something I will never condone.

The person he shot should should have been arrested and jailed if he was attempting to steal from him. But last I checked we didn't he capital punishment in this state, nor was Patrick Nally empowered by anybody to administer justice.

Maybe I'm just a crazy leftist though, what with my respect for life and all.

(Good insult by the way whoever called me that. It's not only stinging, but also shows you are clearly an informed individual with an understanding of political and moral beliefs)

Respect for life you say? What about all lives turned into a living hell by frog ward? He had been convicted...80 fcuking times...presumably only tip of the iceberg of a life of scumbaggery and crime that brought misery to probably hundreds of lives...I respect the right of a community not to live in fear of a violent criminal scumbag. Nallys actions served the greater good.

ireland.man

To sum up the thread so far, we need the death penalty brought back for people who have 80+ convictions but we need farmers to carry out the sentence on their own initiative using .50 calibre rounds and rocket launchers. Anyone who disagrees that criminals should be shot in the back while laying prostrate on the ground are extreme leftists...

It's like that Harry Enfield sketch with the self-righteous brothers who work themselves up into extreme hyperbole and shout increasingly bizarre opinions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks7AwE3Xpfk

floggg

ireland.man wrote: »

To sum up the thread so far, we need the death penalty brought back for people who have 80+ convictions but we need farmers to carry out the sentence on their own initiative using .50 calibre rounds and rocket launchers. Anyone who disagrees that criminals should be shot in the back while laying prostrate on the ground are extreme leftists...

It's like that Harry Enfield sketch with the self-righteous brothers who work themselves up into extreme hyperbole and shout increasingly bizarre opinions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks7AwE3Xpfk

You missed the bit about travellers being scum.

This thread is really giving me the sadz.

Riskymove

suicide_circus wrote: »

Respect for life you say? What about all lives turned into a living hell by frog ward? He had been convicted...80 fcuking times...presumably only tip of the iceberg of a life of scumbaggery and crime that brought misery to probably hundreds of lives...I respect the right of a community not to live in fear of a violent criminal scumbag. Nallys actions served the greater good.

the problem with this is view is that it is based on hindsight and seeks to find reasons to support what happened.

is the right to shoot someone in this situation based on the person's history? obviously it cannot be

If Nally had shot someone in the same way who had no previous convictions would it affect the legality of what he did?

SeanW

floggg wrote: »

The person he shot should should have been arrested and jailed if he was attempting to steal from him. But last I checked we didn't he capital punishment in this state, nor was Patrick Nally empowered by anybody to administer justice.

He already had been arrested and convicted of crimes. 80 times ... EIGHTY TIMES.

It didn't work. If Nally hadn't killed him, its safe to say he'd have had many more convictions by now, and that his son would have taken over the family business, assuming he hasn't done so anyway.

suicide_circus

Riskymove wrote: »

the problem with this is view is that it is based on hindsight and seeks to find reasons to support what happened.

is the right to shoot someone in this situation based on the person's history? obviously it cannot be

If Nally had shot someone in the same way who had no previous convictions would it affect the legality of what he did?

Actually I'm opposed to capital punishment. As we saw in nallys subsequent retrial and acquittal, the jury found that frog wards character and continual criminal persecution of nally were mitigating factors leading to his death. On paper,I don't condone the manner in which nally finished ward off but this, to me at least, is one of those rare occasions where the end justified the means.

Wibbs

floggg wrote: »

The person he shot should should have been arrested and jailed if he was attempting to steal from him.

He had been previously convicted eighty times and likely arrested as many if not more times and those were convictions for which he was caught. And it didn't stop him. Some individuals are quite simply irredeemable. The justice system failed. It failed Nally and others like him and it even failed Ward and others like him. If the justice system in this country had worked Ward would still be alive, if kept away from normal society. The justice system in this country is failing and has been for too long a time. Nigh on every week yet another criminal comes before the courts with ever more significant crimes on top of many previous convictions. It's become farcical at this stage.

floggg

Wibbs wrote: »

He had been previously convicted eighty times and likely arrested as many if not more times and those were convictions for which he was caught. And it didn't stop him. Some individuals are quite simply irredeemable. The justice system failed. It failed Nally and others like him and it even failed Ward and others like him. If the justice system in this country had worked Ward would still be alive, if kept away from normal society. The justice system in this country is failing and has been for too long a time. Nigh on every week yet another criminal comes before the courts with ever more significant crimes on top of many previous convictions. It's become farcical at this stage.

So let's just kill them instead I guess.

RobYourBuilder

ireland.man wrote: »

To sum up the thread so far, we need the death penalty brought back for people who have 80+ convictions but we need farmers to carry out the sentence on their own initiative using .50 calibre rounds and rocket launchers. Anyone who disagrees that criminals should be shot in the back while laying prostrate on the ground are extreme leftists...

Attempted burglary does not warrant a death sentence, nor is there any provision for such a sentence in Irish law. Any citizen is lawfully entitled to kill an aggressor, if killing him is reasonable in the circumstances. As determined by a jury who have considered all the facts of the case.

Such a killing is not a death sentence; it is a justifiable homicide.

suicide_circus

floggg wrote: »

So let's just kill them instead I guess.

Ward died due to his own criminal actions as was determined by the jury who acquitted nally.

Wibbs

floggg wrote: »

So let's just kill them instead I guess.

Oh please don't let what I actually wrote get in the way of your bleeding heart rhetoric.

ireland.man

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Attempted burglary does not warrant a death sentence, nor is there any provision for such a sentence in Irish law. Any citizen is lawfully entitled to kill an aggressor, if killing him is reasonable in the circumstances. As determined by a jury who have considered all the facts of the case.

Such a killing is not a death sentence; it is a justifiable homicide.

'Finishing off' someone is not justifiable, morally or legally. Once the threat has been neutralized, there's no more need for force, especially lethal force.

To argue that isn't to show sympathy for Ward or to belittle the trauma Nally went through. I've huge sympathy for the latter and I know the country is probably better off without the former. But it doesn't mean executing a defenseless man should be glorified.

bjork

Padraig Nally should have been given a medal and his gun back.

NotCominBack

At the end of the day man is entitled to defend himself in his own home if under threat. If unlucky enough for this to happen twice then he should be allowed to defend himself twice, especially when on a remote farm. Give the man back his gun, he has indicated nothing other than he just wants to be left alone and minds his own business

Tzar Chasm

ireland.man wrote: »

'Finishing off' someone is not justifiable, morally or legally. Once the threat has been neutralized, there's no more need for force, especially lethal force.

To argue that isn't to show sympathy for Ward or to belittle the trauma Nally went through. I've huge sympathy for the latter and I know the country is probably better off without the former. But it doesn't mean executing a defenseless man should be glorified.

The main point raised in nallys defence is that ward was not neutralised, he was making his way back to his van, had he made it you could be damm sure him and his clan would have returned to kill nally.

nally acted in self defence, allowing ward to leave or waiting for the gardai were not viable options. If he had left frog alive on the road how long would it have taken for him to regain his composure and convince his son to disarm nally and even the score

RobYourBuilder

ireland.man wrote: »

'Finishing off' someone is not justifiable, morally or legally. Once the threat has been neutralized, there's no more need for force, especially lethal force.

To argue that isn't to show sympathy for Ward or to belittle the trauma Nally went through. I've huge sympathy for the latter and I know the country is probably better off without the former. But it doesn't mean executing a defenseless man should be glorified.

Section 2(8) allows for it.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/act/pub/0035/sec0002.html#sec2

FTA69

I think the main reason Nally got a custodial sentence was the manner in which he killed Ward. The fact he critically wounded him, beat him around the head with a stick and then reloaded his gun, shot him dead, dumped his body over a wall and then went out to tell the son his father "won't be coming back" stretched beyond typical 'self-defence.'

That having been said, it's very easy to judge an elderly man who had been terrorised in his own home by either Ward, or at the very least, people like Ward. Anyone who thinks Ward was at that house for anything other than purposes dodgy is only deluding themselves. Ward was a serial and serious criminal with convictions for a variety of violent offenses. While I don't think what happened to him was the ideal application of justice, the fact remains that if he wasn't a robbing criminal bastard; he'd be alive today.

ireland.man

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Section 2(8) allows for it.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/act/pub/0035/sec0002.html#sec2

You would interpret that as permitting disproportionate force against anyone trespassing on your land (and all depending on the mindset of the property owner)?

RobYourBuilder

ireland.man wrote: »

You would interpret that as permitting disproportionate force against anyone trespassing on your land (and all depending on the mindset of the property owner)?

(i) he or she acted under duress,

Yes.

[Deleted User]

FTA69 wrote: »

I think the main reason Nally got a custodial sentence was the manner in which he killed Ward. The fact he critically wounded him, beat him around the head with a stick and then reloaded his gun, shot him dead, dumped his body over a wall and then went out to tell the son his father "won't be coming back" stretched beyond typical 'self-defence.'

Is that what actually happened?

FTA69

riffmongous wrote: »

Is that what actually happened?

Pretty much as far as I know. He initially wounded him with a shotgun blast, flaked him around the head with a stick he had for mixing paint and referred to the Guard on scene that it was like beating a badger. He later reloaded and killed Ward outright.

ireland.man

riffmongous wrote: »

Is that what actually happened?

Not to show too much sympathy but Ward had a broken left arm, was shot once and was limping away from the property when Nally went into his shed, reloaded, and followed Ward and then stood over him and shot him.

Simply put, that's not reasonable force regardless of the good it might have done society or the stress Nally was suffering from previous thefts on his land.

bjork

acquitted of murder
acquitted of manslaughter
in the courts

still guilty in the eyes of some