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Celtic Tiger Cowboy Builders

Kevwoody

Ok folks, I bought a house in 2008 that was built a year earlier. Everything looked grand when we moved in, but slowly but surely the cracks, literally, are beginning to appear.
A few of the problems are,
Cracks all over the plaster outside,
Damp on the inside walls,
Tiles coming off the roof,
Leaky plumbing and heating,
Loose block work in the attic.

I know some stuff will always happen after a while, but we keep the place well maintained. We had a leak under the bath and when we took off the bath surround, it looked like something a 5 year old put together! Bits of timber keeping the pipes tight was causing the leak!

So AH, are your Celtic Tiger gaffs still standing?

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anncoates

There was hardly any council houses built during the boom, hence the chronic shortage now? AFAIK, the shortfall was supposed to be addressed by making new developments 20% social housing but most developers circumvented this by paying a levy instead.

Bought my place in 2004. Could definitely be better and looks like the usual townhouse style but thankfully have had no genuine problems with it and they still seem to sell.

Aircraft Freak

mad m wrote: »

It's gas just thought there, the site I worked on for over 8 years I bought my first house. Seen it being built as I worked on the site, had a word in the other trades ears as to do a good job etc. Fecking unreal when plumber had to fill heating system, had not one or two leaks but 10!!!

Had one fella form board gais tell me my pump was leaking and it needed replacement, I saw him unscrew the bleed screw on the pump, and water went everywhere, I told him I saw and I was a mechanical engineer and he was telling porkies, he then said, " I work for dry side, and well have to get wet side onto this" so I fúcked him out of the house without payment.

Desolation Of Smug

arayess wrote: »

only yesterday I move a pipe in the attic that wasn't attached to the fan in the shower .
the fan was just sucking water vapour into the insulation

only found it by chance a month ago while i was in far end of the attic.
house built 15 years , mentioned it to my neighbors and each and everyone of them found the same problem.

cnuts.

Jasus, that sent a shivver down my spine tbh - I went to a house that had "a drip coming from the extractor above the shower" - we went up into the (shared between 3 houses!) attic and the extractors from all three ran into one 4" flexi-duct in the attic, all held together with tape and all slumped across the joists.... - and out a vertical duct in the slates.

The pipework was full to the neck with water. A lot of water. The homeowner was with us, and as i explained the problem, he lifted one end of the duct....which sent the entire contents down through his neighbours shower extractor, flooding their bathroom....we just sort of all stood around sucking our lips, then I made my excuses and headed off. Good luck fixing that....mad stuff. And I'd say there's loads of that out there.

sozbox

FalconGirl wrote: »

Mine is rented too and the only reason I am still there is because the location is good and the rental price is probably one of the cheapest around Dublin at the moment. I feel really sorry for the neighbours that have actually bought them as these issues are only arising after 10 years. I can only imagine them in 40 years time!

Exactly! Doubt my building will last that long, landlord paid 400k+ too for it.

Desolation Of Smug

sozbox wrote: »

Exactly! Doubt my building will last that long, landlord paid 400k+ too for it.

I went to look at a "luxury" apartment for a chap, out in Santry - he had bought there a few weeks back and wanted to overhaul it..MOG, it was built so badly - the walls were running with damp, cracks everywhere, the people above might as well have been in with us for all the sound-proofing there was and it had monocouche that was failing and that "Cedar wood" cladding on the outside, that was awash. I'd hate to see it in ten years time, it will be in tatters. I passed on that one too. Whatever happened down the line would be "my" fault.

Firefox11

FalconGirl wrote: »

Mold on the window sills and walls during the winter, low water pressure, Cracks in the walls and the wind comes through the plug sockets just a few problems. All this in a modern apartment built in 2005! And the developer is still one of a few building away. The neighbours have the same problems.

Have you a Management company? Have you taken it up with them? Mightn't be much good but bring any issues to them anyway, they might be able to sort something. Our Management company is pretty good and are currently chasing after the builder of our estate.

_Kaiser_

Jaysus some serious horror stories here but not that surprising I suppose given how quickly new estates were thrown up in the "Good Times"

And yet despite that we're in the process of driving prices sky high again and encouraging people to "get on the property ladder" again so they can buy these places :rolleyes:

This stuff sounds more dodgy than buying a used car privately except in those cases a verifiable history and having it checked by a decent mechanic will usually see you right. Buying one of these new-ish houses/apartments is like playing the lotto by the sounds of it.

[Deleted User]

The government should be really promoting the construction of high quality accommodation for rent in the city centres where there is real demand for "starter" housing, the property ladder is one of the biggest scams ever devised!

Long term secure rental property is what we should be aspiring to, not buying shoddily built overpriced shoeboxes in crap locations.

Aircraft Freak

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The government should be really promoting the construction of high quality accommodation for rent in the city centres where there is real demand for "starter" housing, the property ladder is one of the biggest scams ever devised!

Long term secure rental property is what we should be aspiring to, not buying shoddily built overpriced shoeboxes in crap locations.

Only If you can a secure a lifetime lease and not get fúcked out on a whim by the landlord. Not to mention the privacy issue with landlords turning up un announced and interrogating renters, until that happens don't expect change in the renters market.

This is why the irish want to buy their own property, that they will control, so long as the mortgage is up to date, no hassle from anyone.

Menas

Aircraft Freak wrote: »

This is why the irish want to buy their own property, that they will control, so long as the mortgage is up to date, no hassle from anyone.

There is also a hangover from when the British were 'staying' here and most Irish natives rented a hovel from the local Lord.

[Deleted User]

Aircraft Freak wrote: »

Only If you can a secure a lifetime lease and not get fúcked out on a whim by the landlord. Not to mention the privacy issue with landlords turning up un announced and interrogating renters, until that happens don't expect change in the renters market.

This is why the irish want to buy their own property, that they will control, so long as the mortgage is up to date, no hassle from anyone.

Exactly, that's why I said "secure", the current rental market seems to be mainly operated by Investors who only have the houses instead of pension funds and "accidental" landlords who have houses that they couldn't sell.
Neither group have the tenants long term interests in mind, rather they are only interested in the short term appreciation of the value of the house.

[Deleted User]

Trigger Happy wrote: »

There is also a hangover from when the British were 'staying' here and most Irish natives rented a hovel from the local Lord.

The British have the same attitude (& issues) with housing, so I don't buy that argument in today's world (in the 1930s it may have been a major factor.

duckcfc

Not all houses built in boom are dirt! Just saying like.

anncoates

Aircraft Freak wrote: »

Only If you can a secure a lifetime lease and not get fúcked out on a whim by the landlord.

Lifetime lease?

Shouldn't go the other way either where some deadbeat can destroy your house or withhold rent while killing time going through PRTB.

There is responsibility on both sides of the rental process.

[Deleted User]

duckcfc wrote: »

Not all houses built in boom are dirt! Just saying like.

True, at least one poster said that he worked on quality, but they were the exception.

Aircraft Freak

anncoates wrote: »

Lifetime lease?

Shouldn't go the other way either where some deadbeat can destroy your house or withhold rent while killing time going through PRTB.

There is responsibility on both sides of the rental process.

I totally understand your concerns, but how do do they deal with this on the continent? Germany for example, plenty of people with 30 year rental leases. I'm not sure myself but my sister just secured a 15 year lease in Germany, its basically her house, and the rent is tied to inflation, she seems happy and she can decorate without asking the landlord, who under German law, cannot turn up and harrass her

Letree

Deleted User wrote: »

True, at least one poster said that he worked on quality, but they were the exception.

Are you seriously saying that good houses were the exception. For that to be true most builders, trades people, architects etc would have to have been cowboys. Its just not true that most workers lacked professional integrity. The truth is the vast majority of properties build were done well. Unfortunately quite a few were badly built. But they were in a minority, a significant minority at that. My house was very well built as was those belonging to my friends and family. Nobody had any major problems that i know of.

Threads like these will attract those who have had a bad experience and those who like to spout hearsay.

Andrewf20

sozbox wrote: »

Terrifying. I'm looking to buy this year and stories like these keep me up at night.

Do as much research as you can, knock in to 1 or 2 neighbours where you are thinking of buying. Google the estate name etc. Look at the outside of the other houses / appartments on the road / estate - look at their exterior walls for clues of cracking etc. A surveyors report should help calm nerves. Do your own survey of the house of interest as well and bring a spare pair of eyes along also, the more experienced the person, the better. Perhaps buying a place 20 or 30 years old may lower the risk also.

[Deleted User]

Letree wrote: »

Are you seriously saying that good houses were the exception. For that to be true most builders, trades people, architects etc would have to have been cowboys. Its just not true that most workers lacked professional integrity. The truth is the vast majority of properties build were done well. Unfortunately quite a few were badly built. But they were in a minority, a significant minority at that. My house was very well built as was those belonging to my friends and family. Nobody had any major problems that i know of.

Threads like these will attract those who have had a bad experience and those who like to spout hearsay.

I have personally seen more bad than good houses of that era, most of the good houses were "one-offs" and most of the bad ones were developments.

Letree

Deleted User wrote: »

I have personally seen more bad than good houses of that era, most of the good houses were "one-offs" and most of the bad ones were developments.

I agree with you on that, i'd recommend buying a house that someone had built for themselves to live in initially if possible, its more likely those working on it were vetted and close attention would have been paid to the work along the way.

Desolation Of Smug

Just to add to the pudding, it isn't just the houses themselves, the services out of sight also had a few "Tiger" twists. Any lad who worked on laying sewers/drains/ducts can tell you a few good ones. "Pressure tests" that never happend as there was feck all hope of the system holding pressure, lads down manholes with a mobile phone inserting and removing pipe-bungs at the right times to ensure "pressure" was being held while the council were doing the tests, pipes laid into muck and backfilled with whatever was to hand..

I was working laying pipes in Finglas on a big new development and the young chap driving the digger was woeful - he was wrecking more than he was digging. I asked him where the feck he learnt to drive a digger and he goes "I drove one a couple of times filling muck spreaders on me uncles farm.."..and yet, ta-daah, here he was a fully fledged "groundworker.." I pity the people on that estate wondering why their toilets keep backing up. I jacked in there the next day when he buried his bucket through the main sewer and instead of fixing it, just dumped a bucket of lean-mix over the crushed pipe and drove off. The foreman reckoned it would "be grand."

barneystinson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUHunfH0XbI

nomeban

Back in the boom times all my mates were in the trade. We would start taking all sorts of drugs on a Friday evening and go mental all weekend with what seemed like an unlimited amount of drugs due to everybody having a good bit of cash.

I don't know what experiences people here have with pills & speed etc. but you don't really recover until at least mid week.

So on Monday and Tuesday my mates would head off building, plumbing, wiring houses with the eyes hanging out of them and their brains turned to absolute porridge. And I'm sure it was the same all over the country.

That surely must be the cause of some of the problems we're seeing today. Well, that's my theory anyway!

Baggy Trousers

My brother was thinking of buying a new estate house in 2005. The builder told him there was 100mm kingspan insulation in the floor. He even had the good kingspan insulation off-cuts lying around for proof.
My brother brought a drill to the site one day and bored a small hole into the screed/floor. It showed him that there was 50mm of aeroboard in the floor. Useless insulation. He confronted the builder but builder told him to feck off, he'd find another buyer.

Toots

I live in an apartment that was built circa 2004. We bought it second hand, so unfortunately we didn't get to snag it with the builders. I reckon whoever the first buyer was had either not bothered to get a survey, or never bothered to look the thing over because there were a fair few issues with it.

Firstly is the extractor fan over the hob - it doesn't go anywhere. Luckily the extractor in the bathroom is fine, although I heard a few other apartments in the complex had problems where they were just extracting the steam into the ceiling cavity.

The plastering around the windows is atrocious. I reckon whoever leveled it off must have only had one eye, or been drunk because they're so uneven. The walls are the same. You wouldn't notice it, only we put down a new floor last year and the walls were way out. Trying to cut the boards so that they fitted properly without massive gaps around the sides was quite a challenge.

Then there was the plastering in the bedroom wall, we were trying to put up a curtain rail, and my husband was drilling a hole in the wall when suddenly a big chunk about the size of his fist just caved in. It turns out that the builder obviously only had a short bit of dry wall left, so instead of putting another bit in to bring it up to the ceiling, there was about a foot of that mesh tape and just a skim of plaster over it.

Then there was this incident http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/roof-blown-off-south-dublin-apartment-block-383447.html luckily nobody was hurt. It was pretty scary though, we were over in my SIL's apartment (she lives just across from us) and we were looking out the window and one of the guys who parks his car just outside the block got in and drove off. About 1 minute later, the roof comes crashing down just where his car would have been. The guy arrived back about 15 mins later (obviously just popped round to the shops or something) and he got the shock of his life when he saw the roof lying there. If he'd been a minute later getting into his car, he could have been killed.

arayess

duckcfc wrote: »

Not all houses built in boom are dirt! Just saying like.

you are right , to be fair my house is fine apart from that woe I found with the extractor.
the rest has held up and no real issue in the 15years since I bought it - I bought it new.

but there was a lot of muck build

nomeban wrote: »

Back in the boom times all my mates were in the trade. We would start taking all sorts of drugs on a Friday evening and go mental all weekend with what seemed like an unlimited amount of drugs due to everybody having a good bit of cash.

I don't know what experiences people here have with pills & speed etc. but you don't really recover until at least mid week.

So on Monday and Tuesday my mates would head off building, plumbing, wiring houses with the eyes hanging out of them and their brains turned to absolute porridge. And I'm sure it was the same all over the country.

That surely must be the cause of some of the problems we're seeing today. Well, that's my theory anyway!

This is reallly true..I used to know fellas cos I'd be out with them who'd party on friday till 5am with all the fancy stuff a big salary can bring and then nip into work on a site for some OT on a saturday at 9am, mad stuff

Streetwalker

Letree wrote: »

Are you seriously saying that good houses were the exception. For that to be true most builders, trades people, architects etc would have to have been cowboys. Its just not true that most workers lacked professional integrity. The truth is the vast majority of properties build were done well. Unfortunately quite a few were badly built. But they were in a minority, a significant minority at that. My house was very well built as was those belonging to my friends and family. Nobody had any major problems that i know of.

Threads like these will attract those who have had a bad experience and those who like to spout hearsay.

Like I stated earlier in the thread I worked on sites doing tiling for years until I got out in 2006 and hand on heart I'd say 40-50% of the houses built in that era are nothing but rubbish. Yeah a lot of the problems with them have been addressed at great cost in the last few years but a lot of people can't afford to fix the problems and are living with the results.

The reality is greed took over and decent trades people who had been in the game for years seen massive amounts of cash to be made out of throwing houses up quickly. I personally have seen brick layers and sparks driving around in brand new BMW's unto sites with their tools in the boot. A lot where making 1500-2000 a week at the height of it.

happysunnydays

duckcfc wrote: »

Not all houses built in boom are dirt! Just saying like.

You're right but it's pig in a poke, you're best off just staying well away from anything built in that period, the quality in materials & workmanship isn't there. The average property buyer just sees four walls and a roof, its what you can't see or know that will become a long term problem and cost you a fortune. I worked in construction during the boom.