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M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

JupiterKid

Following on from the suggestion of a poster, this thread has been set up to discuss the need for widening the M7.

The section of the M7 IMO in immediate need (really a backlog need) for widening is the section from the Maudlins Interchange at Naas to the M9 interchange - basically the original 1983 Naas Bypass and half of the 1993 Newbridge Bypass. Is this likely to proceed in the near future?

Would the central median be wide enough for widening to D3M here? I'm pretty sure it is wide enough on the Newbridge bypass section but I'm not so sure in the case of the Naas Bypass.

Also, what bridges will need to be demolished and rebuilt? Or would it be more practical to drop the hard shoulder through the existing bridges?

What about the proposal a few years back to build a new junction at on the Naas Bypass at Osberstown? Will it still go ahead?

In the longer term, does anyone see a need to widen the M7 to the N7/M8 junction?

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[Deleted User]

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Just a thought, but when the road network was being built day 1, the M9 should have been diverted to the N81 and dualled all the way into Dublin.

Having 3 national routes to regional cities all starting off on the N7 was madness in retrospect.

The endpoints are not the real issue though, it's the fact that almost the entire population of all the towns near Dublin have to drive there to work!
Other cities in Europe would have a regional rail system to take much of this traffic.

AugustusMinimus

Deleted User wrote: »

The endpoints are not the real issue though, it's the fact that almost the entire population of all the towns near Dublin have to drive there to work!
Other cities in Europe would have a regional rail system to take much of this traffic.

Virtually all of the towns on the M7 corridor have rail access though.

[Deleted User]

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Virtually all of the towns on the M7 corridor have rail access though.

OK, so why isn't it used?
Could it be the fact that none of these rail links go anywhere near the places of work in Dublin and most people live a long way from the stations, so they are effectively useless!

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

The endpoints are not the real issue though, it's the fact that almost the entire population of all the towns near Dublin have to drive there to work!
Other cities in Europe would have a regional rail system to take much of this traffic.

Yes but all Public Transport, bus, rail ends up in the City, you can't get to the industrial areas if you're coming from the commuter towns, or it would probably add an hour or more to your journey.

JJ Kavanagh is stopping it's old N9 service through Castledermot, Moone and Timolin from January leaving those villages with 0 Public transport since CIE pulled out. More traffic on our roads, or forcing people who can't park in Dublin or afford a car on the Dole !

Trains from Carlow, Athy are a Joke. Too infrequent.

This country is unbelievable.

The only hope really is a lot more car pooling.

gilly0512

Deleted User wrote: »

Yep crash reported at Rathcoole.

Jesus, is there no end to it, probably some muppet playing with the phone. These days I throw the phone on the back seat and use the bluetooth. I don't want the embarrassment of a crash , probably someone texting their mates to avoid the N7 !

Even before the crash though the Traffic was mental.

NRA website says the 3 lane upgrade from Naas to Newbridge is in "planning" so probably a few years before it's finished.

tomtom traffic live is great to check before you leave work. the M50 is a car park the whole way north !

Dublin seriously needs an underground and a decent rail network, that Luas is crap and too slow !

I have been pestering the NRA for an update on this scheme for sometime, and I'm afraid it's not good news, as while the scheme has been approved by An Bord Pleanala, no funds have been set aside for it by government. So basically it looks like we could be looking towards 2016 to even get work started on this (providing funding is made available) with I presume two years for construction? I attach the reply from the NRA below.

"The proposed M7 Naas Newbridge Bypass Upgrade, which involves the addition of a third lane in either direction, was approved by An Bord Pleanála in September 2014. I should explain that investment in transport infrastructure, including the national roads improvement programme, has been scaled back significantly under the Government’s capital investment plan “Infrastructure and Capital Investment 2012 – 2016”. In view of the funding being made available to the Authority for the coming years, there is no scope at present to undertake major improvement works on the network, other than those specified in the 2012 – 2016 investment plan. In view of this, further advancement of the Naas Newbridge Upgrade project cannot be accommodated in the national roads programme at present due to the funding constraints outlined above. However, the situation in relation to the scheme will be reviewed in the event of additional resources being made available to the Authority".

JeffK88

Reading through the "Juncker" report as posted in the following thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057344085 (Which also contains some interesting information)
towards the bottom there is a description of the proposed widening of the M7. This is the quote
Bottleneck on the N7 with 6 lanes at northern end & 8
lanes at southern end feeding into 4 lanes on the TENT/CEF
Core Corridor. Positive benefit to cost ratio of 6

Correct me if i'm reading this wrong but does this mean the plan is to widen the road to 8 lanes between Naas North and the M9 or those the "8 Lanes at the southern end" mean the slip roads onto the M9.

L1011

8 lanes = 2 4 lane motorways combine

regedit

Sent an email to Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport recently.
here is his response

I am writing to thank you for your email of 5 December 2014 and I am pleased to hear that you welcome the opening of the upgraded N7 Newlands Cross Junction, one of the busiest junctions in the country.

As Minister for Transport, Tourism & Sport, I have responsibility for overall policy and funding in relation to the national roads programme. The planning, design and implementation of individual road projects is a matter for the National Roads Authority (NRA) under the Roads Acts 1993 to 2007 in conjunction with the local authorities concerned. Because of the national financial position, there have been very large reductions in roads expenditure over the past number of years. The reality is that the available funds do not match the amount of work which could be undertaken. For this reason it is not possible to progress a range of worthwhile projects.

For now the NRA has to work within a reduced capital budget and assess and prioritise projects within that funding envelope. This means that the possiblity of progressing projects such as the Naas bypass widening will be very much dependent on the availability of funding in the future.
nd.

To me, this reads that there's no immediate rush to upgrade the M7 from Naas ooutbound

[Deleted User]

That to me sounds like it isn-t going to happen. Probably a 5-10 year time frame.

So the Newlands cross fly over was essentially worthless !

There isn't even a viable alternative route.

The main problem at the Nass North exit traffic merging in the south lane is the slip road is way too short and those on the slip roads end up on the motorway at 50-60 Kph which forces the traffic in the left lane to slow and/or hop into the fast lane at slow speeds, this is the issue. There really is no excuse for traffic to slow and back up as it does.

If people learned how to drive, on the motorways properly it might make people more aware of how to merge safely and properly on to a motorway.

People don't properly use the shoulder to build up speeds, as soon as the slip road ends they panic and feel they must enter the motorway and can't continue on the shoulder a few more meters until they build up speed to safely enter the motorway.

I just can't understand why someone who passes their test this day and age can then drive legally on the motorway after passing their test during the day at 50 Kph and less, just bewilders me , there should be night time testing also.

gilly0512

regedit wrote: »

Sent an email to Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport recently.
here is his response

To me, this reads that there's no immediate rush to upgrade the M7 from Naas ooutbound

For all the good it will do, I have also e-mailed the Minister, no harm I suppose in as many people as possible e-mailing him.

regedit

minister@dttas.ie

regedit

Also, I was under the impression that one of the conditions for the Kerry Group to build their office at the Millenium Park/Osberstown was that the Kildare County Council builds an exit for them from the M7 close to their offices plus that the road gets widened to three lanes. It must have been rumours only

BuzzFish

regedit wrote: »

Also, I was under the impression that one of the conditions for the Kerry Group to build their office at the Millenium Park/Osberstown was that the Kildare County Council builds an exit for them from the M7 close to their offices plus that the road gets widened to three lanes. It must have been rumours only

The interchange as well as an upgrade to the sallins road roundabout is included in the original planning permission. I'll try dig it out later but remember reading it.

klairondavis

http://www.kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/NationalRoadsOffice/M7OsberstownInterchangeR407SallinsBypassScheme2013/EIS-EIA/EISVolume1-NonTechnicalSummary/M7%20Osberstown%20-%20EIS%20Volume%201%20Non%20Technial%20Summary.pdf

richiek83

klairondavis wrote: »

http://www.kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/NationalRoadsOffice/M7OsberstownInterchangeR407SallinsBypassScheme2013/EIS-EIA/EISVolume1-NonTechnicalSummary/M7%20Osberstown%20-%20EIS%20Volume%201%20Non%20Technial%20Summary.pdf

Looks like funding is not forthcoming according to KFM.

http://www.kfmradio.com/news/16012015-0754/funding-m7-upgrades-not-forthcoming

pad199207

NAMA likely to contribute to this project but not the full funding amount of €110m

lucernarian

pad199207 wrote: »

NAMA likely to contribute to this project but not the full funding amount of €110m

Where did you get this from?

BoatMad

ardmacha wrote: »

No. Traffic volumes in the Portlaoise area are only about 20k/day.
While the economy will recover, huge volume increases in a €2/litre era don't seem all that probable.

I just resurrected this one to have a laugh at all future gazing ( it was written in early 2012), It reminds me of all the " peak oil" nonsense I used to hear in college in the late 70s. Thats the great thing about the future, we can't predict inventions, we haven't yet thought of

fergus1001

BoatMad wrote: »

I just resurrected this one to have a laugh at all future gazing ( it was written in early 2012), It reminds me of all the " peak oil" nonsense I used to hear in college in the late 70s. Thats the great thing about the future, we can't predict inventions, we haven't yet thought of

I feel an edit coming on :pac:

BoatMad

fergus1001 wrote: »

I feel an edit coming on :pac:

why , I merely use it to illustrate how wrong we can get predictions and the decisions we take because of that

I remember threads here rubbishing the building of more apartments and the predictions of housing crises in Dublin in 2010, !!

Predicting forwards seems to be an extension of ones biasses rather then any real accuracy

dave

Deedsie

Not looking good for this project. Shame

fergus1001

BoatMad wrote: »

why , I merely use it to illustrate how wrong we can get predictions and the decisions we take because of that

I remember threads here rubbishing the building of more apartments and the predictions of housing crises in Dublin in 2010, !!

Predicting forwards seems to be an extension of ones biasses rather then any real accuracy

dave

Valid points dave

But I think the price of oil is just a blip
took them a while to come down but I would say they will go up a lot quicker !

M9 interchange is a joke, road warriors swinging across two lanes when they realise they are going to miss there turn off

BoatMad

fergus1001 wrote: »

Valid points dave

But I think the price of oil is just a blip
took them a while to come down but I would say they will go up a lot quicker !

M9 interchange is a joke, road warriors swinging across two lanes when they realise they are going to miss there turn off

The US is virtually self sufficient in oil as a result of shale etc

large parts of the world have yet to be searched for oil.

Hence pricing today is a result of market demands, rather then any issue of supply. SO we are not likely to see the scenario of prices shooting into the stratosphere,

Agree M9 junction is a joke, but so are many so called motorway junctions in Ireland, exacerbated by the annoying habit of motorists queue jumping

So many junctions were designed with under capacity need fixing, our short term road planning is still at its worst

ardmacha

fergus1001 wrote: »

M9 interchange is a joke, road warriors swinging across two lanes when they realise they are going to miss there turn off

What exactly is wrong with the M9 junction that causes "road warriors" to swing across 2 lanes?

fergus1001

ardmacha wrote: »

What exactly is wrong with the M9 junction that causes "road warriors" to swing across 2 lanes?

there needs to be dividing bolards to stop them from doing that if you miss it go to Newbridge and pay more attention next time !

apoeiguq3094y

ardmacha wrote: »

What exactly is wrong with the M9 junction that causes "road warriors" to swing across 2 lanes?

For this junction, and also for the similar M6 junction off the M4, the length of the exit lanes is too short imho.

If you compare these to a similarly used junction in the UK, the junction starts significantly further back. Usually with a long section of additional lanes with overhead gantries clearly marking the lanes. Its ok if you know its coming and are a frequent user. But for people who don't use it frequently, you can see how it happens.

Also, when merging and exiting from a motorway aren't examined in a test, then its bound to happen.

ardmacha

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

For this junction, and also for the similar M6 junction off the M4, the length of the exit lanes is too short imho.

If you compare these to a similarly used junction in the UK, the junction starts significantly further back. Usually with a long section of additional lanes with overhead gantries clearly marking the lanes. Its ok if you know its coming and are a frequent user. But for people who don't use it frequently, you can see how it happens.

Irish signposting is pretty decent at this stage, with ADS at 2km etc.
Perhaps they should have giant loudspeakers, "hey you, dozy bollocks, this is your turn".

Also, when merging and exiting from a motorway aren't examined in a test, then its bound to happen.

I didn't do merging and exiting from a motorway in my test. I can cope fine.

Andru93

ardmacha wrote: »

I didn't do merging and exiting from a motorway in my test. I can cope fine.

You're one of the lucky few that have a bit of common sense on the motorway.

But simple things like changing lanes or merging and exiting if they were on the test would make junctions on motorways move a lot faster because people know how to properly use then!

Also we wouldn't have any of these road warriors attempting to do multiple lanes within a few hundred meters.

ardmacha

Andru93 wrote: »

You're one of the lucky few that have a bit of common sense on the motorway.

But simple things like changing lanes or merging and exiting if they were on the test would make junctions on motorways move a lot faster because people know how to properly use then!

Also we wouldn't have any of these road warriors attempting to do multiple lanes within a few hundred meters.

People cutting across lanes do so because they don't give a damn about anyone else and signs, tests etc will not do anything to stop them. Law enforcement will.

road_high

richiek83 wrote: »

Looks like funding is not forthcoming according to KFM.

http://www.kfmradio.com/news/16012015-0754/funding-m7-upgrades-not-forthcoming

See no reason why Kerry Group should not have been made contribute heavily to the planned upgrade being contingent on their planning permission.