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Sprinter Sacre

Huntey

I think the most exciting novice chaser since Azertyioup deserves his own thread. His novice achievements have arguably put him on the verge of superstar status already. Only yesterday he posted a RPR of 171, on the bridle, out of novice company, on his third chase start.

Plenty of nay sayers on here for weeks who have suggested he is all hype but greatness awaits with this horse and that will be confirmed when he wins the Arkle.

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Peintre Celebre

Shemale wrote: »

If I am so stupid perhaps you would care to enlighten us as to why this poor winner of a champion chase who is returning from a leg, possibly worse for it, is a better option than the third highest rated horse of all time who has proven this year he can run a 169/ 170 race when De Grugy at his very best with an uninterrupted prep can only hope for 172.

Unless I missed something the "horse" won a champion chase beating

Somersby 6 lengths on a left handed track,
Module (who has since had Uxizandre and Dodging Bullets take massives pisses on him over course and distance) 7 lengths
Sizing Europe a regressing 12 year old 10 lengths

The form at the time looked poor and it looks crap now, also at Cheltenham over 2 miles he has finished behind Kid Cassidy (sure giving him 10lbs) and Captain Conan.

In my "mildly stupid" opinion I just can't have him ahead of Sprinter Sacre, Dodging Bullets or Uxizandre on all known form.

Perhaps you're taking it a little too personally. You said you couldn't understand how he was being put forward as an alternative. Even if I don't remotely fancy the horse in the slightest I can see how a reigning champ can be viewed as an alternative. I'm not saying it's a stupid opinion not to fancy him, I think it's a stupid (perhaps ignorant is the right word) opinion to not understand how some may fancy him.

Without being pedantic, putting the word horse in inverted comas would imply there is some sort of doubt that he is truly a horse.

Shemale

Shemale wrote: »

Well in Jim, I didn't have the heart to tell him Sizing Europe was a year older and 11 lengths closer to "the pig" than he was to Sprinter Sacre

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

Perhaps you're taking it a little too personally. You said you couldn't understand how he was being put forward as an alternative. Even if I don't remotely fancy the horse in the slightest I can see how a reigning champ can be viewed as an alternative. I'm not saying it's a stupid opinion not to fancy him, I think it's a stupid (perhaps ignorant is the right word) opinion to not understand how some may fancy him.

Without being pedantic, putting the word horse in inverted comas would imply there is some sort of doubt that he is truly a horse.

Not taking it personally I thought you were saying I was stupid for suggesting he was not a great bet and wanted to hear why you thought he was a good bet, 4/1 is absolute daylight robbery by the bookies to my mind.

Nope, I think he is a porse, half pig half horse, last year was sickening to hear the fanfare even though Cassidy took the piss out of him. Real shame Sprinter and Simonsig weren't around to show him up as a porse.

Peintre Celebre

Shemale wrote: »

Not taking it personally I thought you were saying I was stupid for suggesting he was not a great bet and wanted to hear why you thought he was a good bet, 4/1 is absolute daylight robbery by the bookies to my mind.

Nope, I think he is a porse, half pig half horse, last year was sickening to hear the fanfare even though Cassidy took the piss out of him. Real shame Sprinter and Simonsig weren't around to show him up as a porse.

I don't think he is a good bet, I can just see why people would back him. I wouldn't be keen on any at the minute for the race. I'd be keen enough to take on Dodging Bullets though.

I wonder how much running Sprinter Sacre at Punchestown after Aintree and Chelt took out of him. Not easy to win at the three no matter how good the horse

mailburner

jaysus what did poor ol sire do to you two?

I hope ye both fill yer boots laying sdg then

I'm happy to lay ss for this race at the price he is now
It would be a shame if neither of the top two won it which is probably quite possible
not saying sire will win as none of us know what kind of form the
horse will be in and he probably shouldnt be a low as 3/1 in a place either

I think huntley hit the nail on the head with his statement on ss

Gregk961

To be honest I hope SDG wins just to quote a few of the ridiculous opinions in the last few posts. He's no Sprinter Sacre but come on he was one of the best chasers in the UK last year. Calling the horse rubbish, even if exaggerated, is silly talk.

Pity champagne fever appears to be the Mullins choice would have loved to seen Vautour thrown into it, not the mans style unfortunately, in fact nothing even slightly interesting is his style

Soft Falling Rain

Gregk961 wrote: »

To be honest I hope SDG wins just to quote a few of the ridiculous opinions in the last few posts. He's no Sprinter Sacre but come on he was one of the best chasers in the UK last year. Calling the horse rubbish, even if exaggerated, is silly talk.

Pity champagne fever appears to be the Mullins choice would have loved to seen Vautour thrown into it, not the mans style unfortunately, in fact nothing even slightly interesting is his style

I think a lot of people are just sore from SDG showing them up last year at Cheltenham after so many were keen to take him on. One bookie, possibly PP, even insulted the horse publicly before the festival, saying he was the favourite they fancied most to be shown up.

The poor horse was simply getting it from all angles and I was delighted when he battered them.

Shemale

Gregk961 wrote: »

To be honest I hope SDG wins just to quote a few of the ridiculous opinions in the last few posts. He's no Sprinter Sacre but come on he was one of the best chasers in the UK last year. Calling the horse rubbish, even if exaggerated, is silly talk.

What is ridiculous is hoping the winner of the worst Champion Chase of recent years becomes a double Champion Chase winner just because I have stated the clear facts about him.

"One of the best chasers" in a very very very poor year for chasing, the two crack two milers off the track for the entire season, the 2013 Ryanair winner off for a year, the Gold Cup winner of 2013 a shadow of himself and a Gold Cup with 6 horses in with a chance after the last with the winner getting a mark of 163, the guts of 20lb off Denman, Kauto, Long Run and Imperial Commander.

I have absolute disdain for this excuse of a horse.

The only way he wins is a pile of injuries before or during the race, and/or the top few in the market fall. Lets hope they all make it, would love if Mullins would step a novice up.

By all means bump this post, god forbid he wins, but with no hard luck stories the three I have named will be in front of him and possibly a few more.

Shemale

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

I think a lot of people are just sore from SDG showing them up last year at Cheltenham after so many were keen to take him on. One bookie, possibly PP, even insulted the horse publicly before the festival, saying he was the favourite they fancied most to be shown up.

The poor horse was simply getting it from all angles and I was delighted when he battered them.

I am not sore, I just think a horse of his level shouldnt be winning Champion Chase, it detracts from the other winners imo

Panrich

Shemale wrote: »

What is ridiculous is hoping the winner of the worst Champion Chase of recent years becomes a double Champion Chase winner just because I have stated the clear facts about him.

"One of the best chasers" in a very very very poor year for chasing, the two crack two milers off the track for the entire season, the 2013 Ryanair winner off for a year, the Gold Cup winner of 2013 a shadow of himself and a Gold Cup with 6 horses in with a chance after the last with the winner getting a mark of 163, the guts of 20lb off Denman, Kauto, Long Run and Imperial Commander.

I have absolute disdain for this excuse of a horse.

The only way he wins is a pile of injuries before or during the race, and/or the top few in the market fall. Lets hope they all make it, would love if Mullins would step a novice up.

By all means bump this post, god forbid he wins, but with no hard luck stories the three I have named will be in front of him and possibly a few more.

"excuse of a horse"
"disdain"

Did he bite you on the arse at some point when you had your back turned?

jimjamcos

I really don't fancy the horse but Shemale, your dislike for him is on a whole other level. Don't know if I'd be predicting 3 horses to finish ahead of him tbh..

Shemale

Panrich wrote: »

"excuse of a horse"
"disdain"

Did he bite you on the arse at some point when you had your back turned?

No, I'll tell you how I made money with Sire De Grugy, I backed Kid Cassidy against him last winter.

I backed Sizing last year and for once he found absolutely nothing when asked, had he, this SDG nonsense probably wouldnt exist.

Shemale

jimjamcos wrote: »

I really don't fancy the horse but Shemale, your dislike for him is on a whole other level. Don't know if I'd be predicting 3 horses to finish ahead of him tbh..

Imo, Bullets is still improving, Uxizandre is still improving, Sprinter can easily find at least 7lbs plus we could expect maybe one or two at bigger prices to run a big race. His old rating would see him struggle and I cant seeing him improving after being out so long with a leg.

I just hate mediocre horses winning the big races, handicaps are all about it but not the big ones.

The intention was not to derail the thread so I wont comment further on the porse until after the CC.

NaiveMelodies

Jesus Shemale, I'm cringing at some of the stuff your coming out with... Did one of the Moores turn down your advances or did you lose your bollix laying SDG last year?

Definitely not the most fashionable or highest rated winner of the Champion Chase, but to put a string of performances like he did last year, with all the variables that can result in a horse losing any race, was impressive.

Panrich

Shemale wrote: »

Imo, Bullets is still improving, Uxizandre is still improving, Sprinter can easily find at least 7lbs plus we could expect maybe one or two at bigger prices to run a big race. His old rating would see him struggle and I cant seeing him improving after being out so long with a leg.

I just hate mediocre horses winning the big races, handicaps are all about it but not the big ones.

Is Lord Windermere an excuse for a horse too by your definition as his rating gives him no right to win a good Gold Cup?
Off the top of my head, Newmill, Beech Road, Cool Ground, Marthas Son, Nortons Coin were all big race winners at Cheltenham in the past that were certainly not the 'best in class' but that's part of the festival fabric that makes it so magical.
With SDG, although he may not float your boat as a CC winner, he went through the season unbeaten and ended up rated in the 170s. That makes him a rare beast by any standards and he deserves to have his name up there. If you're right and he gets found out as being a lucky winner of a poor champion chase, then we can add him to the list above. He still has a chance though to prove himself worthy of taking a higher rank and a bit of improvement (unlikely as it may seem) would put him right there with a chance.

NaiveMelodies

Shemale wrote: »

I backed Sizing last year and for once he found absolutely nothing when asked, had he, this SDG nonsense probably wouldnt exist.

This post really confuses me. A classless, slow, jammy 2 mile chaser jumped a classy(but declining) beast into submission but gets no praise?

Peintre Celebre

The funny thing is, and something that hasn't been mentioned, is it really beyond the realms of possibility that Sire de Grugy had improved into a top class horse last season? Kind of like how Dodging Bullets has this year?

Lets not forget, he didn't just beat horses he hammered anything put in front of him. People use that Kid Cassidy defeat to knock him, if anyone thinks thy was him at his best then they don't know racing

zpehtsfd

Shemale wrote: »

If I am so stupid perhaps you would care to enlighten us as to why this poor winner of a champion chase who is returning from a leg, possibly worse for it, is a better option than the third highest rated horse of all time who has proven this year he can run a 169/ 170 race when De Grugy at his very best with an uninterrupted prep can only hope for 172.

Unless I missed something the "horse" won a champion chase beating

Somersby 6 lengths on a left handed track,
Module (who has since had Uxizandre and Dodging Bullets take massives pisses on him over course and distance) 7 lengths
Sizing Europe a regressing 12 year old 10 lengths

The form at the time looked poor and it looks crap now, also at Cheltenham over 2 miles he has finished behind Kid Cassidy (sure giving him 10lbs) and Captain Conan.

In my "mildly stupid" opinion I just can't have him ahead of Sprinter Sacre, Dodging Bullets or Uxizandre on all known form.

Why do i get the feeling that you have learnt more about these horses in the last week, posting on this board, then you did in your lifetime?

The fact is if SDG came back where he left off he would beat all of the horses mentioned based on there Ascot runs. Of course chances are he won't but that's why the bookies are giving him a 16% chance of winning the CC.

This is the most open CC in years and anyone talking with conviction is talking through their pocket. imo.

rossom

I don't think SDG will make the Festival.

Shemale

rossom wrote: »

I don't think SDG will make the Festival.

Reports today he will be short of fitness for the game spirit

What did you think of Sprinters reappearence Rossom?

UrbanFret

jimjamcos wrote: »

Go home, you're drunk. And when you're there watch the Melling Chase.

A 4 1/2 lenght defeat of Cue card. Wow.:rolleyes:

Shemale

zpehtsfd wrote: »

then

I assume you mean than

zpehtsfd wrote: »

there Ascot runs

I assume you mean their, see now we are both learning :P

So basically your argument is SDG comes back 100% from a leg and Sprinter Sacre couldnt possibly improve 3lbs from soft ground in Ascot to match SDGs best form and Uxizandre and Dodging Bullets have stopped improving.

Shemale

UrbanFret wrote: »

A 4 1/2 lenght defeat of Cue card. Wow.:rolleyes:

Silly season has officially started, its like Christmas, gets earlier every year.

Johner

UrbanFret wrote: »

A 4 1/2 lenght defeat of Cue card. Wow.:rolleyes:

You're joking right? A 4 and half length defeat of a 170 rated animal hard on the steel.

zpehtsfd

Shemale wrote: »

I assume you mean than

Yes, i should have said: "Why do i get the feeling that you have learnt more about these horses in the last week, posting on this board, than you did in your lifetime?"

So basically your argument is SDG comes back 100% from a leg and Sprinter Sacre couldnt possibly improve 3lbs from soft ground in Ascot to match SDGs best form and Uxizandre and Dodging Bullets have stopped improving.

Just like the bookies some of us here give SDG a decent chance in a very open CC. The facts are there for all to read yet you seem to be clouded by some strange bias against him. Every horse in the CC either has injury or ability questions so unlike yourself i have no conviction as to what will happen.

In future spare me the pedantics please. Thanks and GL.

Shemale

zpehtsfd wrote: »

Just like the bookies some of us here give SDG a decent chance in a very open CC. The facts are there for all to read yet you seem to be clouded by some strange bias against him. Every horse in the CC either has injury or ability questions so unlike yourself i have no conviction as to what will happen.

I put across a strong opinion that I have about the horse, some people disagree with me which is fine and I love hearing other peoples takes and assessments. When someone decides to try be smart instead of giving their opinion I will respond in a similar manner:

zpehtsfd wrote: »

Why do i get the feeling that you have learnt more about these horses in the last week, posting on this board, then you did in your lifetime?

mdwexford

Solid well thought out posts, pleasure to read.

rossom

Shemale wrote: »

Reports today he will be short of fitness for the game spirit

What did you think of Sprinters reappearence Rossom?

Don't think he's the same horse he was before and don't think he will be again unfortunately.

Although he'll come on for the run, he was fit enough to win - and the old SS would have. On the back of a 13 month absence, there is no way Nicky Henderson would have left him short of work given his flamboyant and extravagant style. It would have been mad of him to have let his prized asset go in undercooked whereby he could have gotten tired and fallen. Additionally, he had a racecourse gallop at Newbury which should have gotten him fairly fit and although he'll be a sharper horse at Cheltenham I'm firmly of the belief that the Sprinter Sacre of 2 years ago would have won that race at that level of fitness (I know Geraghty went easy on him but he would have won on the bridle before)

I think it's safe to say that everyone will agree on here that one of the most identifiable traits of SS is his extraordinary jumping and how he attacks and sails over his fences. He didn't do that on his reappearance either, as he was frequently driven into fences by Geraghty.

I would love absolutely nothing more than to see SS back to his best but unfortunately I think his 10 consecutive victories over fences will be the only time we will see him at his best. Nicky Henderson made a huge mistake in running him at the 3 major festivals in the space of about 40 days and I definitely feel these exertions made its mark. Another horse that Henderson only thought about the 'now' (for all it was a gesture to racing fans on this occasion) as opposed to the longevity of the horse. Another horse he's "broken" but that's an argument for another day.

All that said, SS may still win what looks a potentially awful QMCC. SDG probably won't run, Dodging Bullets still has to prove he's a horse that can show his form in the spring (atrocious record past January). Al Ferof has never run over the minimum trip over fences and is weak enough looking on Betfair. Champagne Fever has an each way chance and is no certain winner. From there on down it gets pretty poor.

For all I'd love him to be back to his best and demolish the field, I think we've seen the last of the SS of old.

Shemale

Cheers Rossom, I am still hoping he was ring rusty and will come on for it.

What mark do you think he ran to the other day, I reckon 168/ 169 and its not unreasonable for him improve 7lbs (or hopefully 20lbs) for fitness, ground and even a modest improvement in his jumping.

Shemale

mdwexford wrote: »

Solid well thought out posts, pleasure to read.

Brilliant addition to your own comment and the thread/forum in general, take a bow

Shemale

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