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Child Item

Leo Varadkar comes out as gay

Annasopra

Leo Varadkar just came out on RTE Radio.

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_Kaiser_

Drumpot wrote: »

Most people don't know what pressure and difficulty there might be in coming out under normal conditions let alone as a minister in Ireland.

I dunno.. with the exception of maybe the older generation/conservative parents I's say most people 40 or under don't give a toss anymore.

Doesn't seem to stop people from minimising it. But aren't forums a place for people to share what they know for sure about things they have not actually any experience with?

I don't see why it has to be a headline news story myself. It's his own business. Why the need to "come out" to the public at all?

Had Leo not come out and supported the gay marraige referendum he would be leaving himself open to being accused of being no different to politicians who use their powers for their own good. In this case it's quite clear that he will benefit from a yes vote so I think he was correct to disclose a vital piece of information before canvassing on this referendum.

Again not so as the massive thread on this topic proved. People who are gay or straight are overwhelmingly in favour of supporting the upcoming referendum because it's really about civil rights than sexuality

Whether Leo is openly gay or not on the day or not has no relevance on this one. A cynical man however might suggest it's a way to boost support for Leo himself in the inevitable FG leadership heave before the next general election.

Jawgap

jank wrote: »

Chirst, the guy is in the job not even 6 months and you want him to come out with a grand plan to restructure the health service, pick a huge fight with the unions, cut public sector administrative jobs, close down all low grade regional hospitals all within 12 months of a General Election... and you call him populist for not doing it... Jaysus!

Not really, but a bit of vision would be nice.

At the moment he exudes the aura of a man marking time until he can escape to his next job.

jank wrote: »

There is a lot that can be done with the Health Service but now is not the time to be looking for a huge overhaul. Guide the thing over the line for the GE of 2016 and then FG and Leo if they are still in power can commit to their radical changes or whatever strategy they have in mind. No use picking those huge fights now and watching on the sidelines over the next 6 years when the Shinners and whomever get the levers of power. If you think FG and Leo are populist in this regard, the god help you if Sinn Fein get into power.

There is lots that can be done - and changes shouldn't be radical (it's more difficult to get them accepted). I wouldn't expect there to be a huge overhaul in a short space of time, but what there should be is a series of changes starting with something well within his control - accountability, scrutiny and governance.

When was the last time anyone in the HSE was genuinely held to account for their actions? He could start with that tomorrow - it costs nothing and is highly visible

DeanAustin

mad muffin wrote: »

I would put everyone who is in charge of making the big decisions on notice. As I review their failures.

Notice that they are about to lose their jobs?

Daith

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

See this is what annoys me in this country..

Someone announces that they're gay and there's an immediate outpouring of support from the liberal politically correct types (you only have to read the first page of this thread)

Personally I don't give a fook if someone is gay or not. It's their own business and if they're happy then who cares what anyone thinks? In short this is a non-story and in fact, isn't that how it should be?

Yes but it is not atm. If you truly didn't give a **** you wouldn't be moaning about the liberal ppl showing support. What difference to you does that make? You wouldn't even have bothered clicking on the topic

mad muffin

DeanAustin wrote: »

But you had an opinion on it so you must have some expectations to judge him against.

Put them up here and let's see if what you think he should have done/accomplished in 6 months is realistic.

I would put everyone who is in charge of making the big decisions on notice. As I review their failures.

Drumpot

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Maybe because most people don't find him coming out controversial?

Most people don't know what pressure and difficulty there might be in coming out under normal conditions let alone as a minister in Ireland.

Doesn't seem to stop people from minimising it. But aren't forums a place for people to share what they know for sure about things they have not actually any experience with?

Had Leo not come out and supported the gay marraige referendum he would be leaving himself open to being accused of being no different to politicians who use their powers for their own good. In this case it's quite clear that he will benefit from a yes vote so I think he was correct to disclose a vital piece of information before canvassing on this referendum.

Jawgap

Bootros Bootros wrote: »

If something is political sucicide because people don't want it it's fairly understandable that politicans are reluctant. Also I can understand why people who know that a hospital is now 5 minutes away would get upset at it being 40 minutes away - over rural roads. From their point of view that probably is a downgrade in service. Some people would clearly die in those situations where they wouldn't with a closer hospital.

And that's not the reason why health is in trolley crisis. Recently Ennis or somewhere in the mid west had to be reopened because of over crowding in Limerick.

You sound to me like you want to protect your class ( middle to senior management in the PS) and blame the people or the minister for a crisis of competency in the PS.

Not at all - delayed discharges are the cause of the ED crisis - if people aren't discharged the beds aren't free to accept new admissions and people languish on trolleys waiting for beds.

And in fairness to Leo he has advocated the greater adoption of Full Capacity Protocols, but if he is the conviction politician people are making him out to be (as well as a the good doctor he has demonstrated himself to be), sure he should be making decisions in the national interest? And telling people what they need to hear about the nature of the health services before going on and selling the better idea of a changed service?

Fukuyama

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe because most people don't find him coming out controversial?

I'm just wondering why people go out of their way to say they don't care.

I don't think it's controversial. I think it's good that he had the confidence to do it though. And it should bode well for the SSM debate.

The "pfft, big whoop" attitude is odd as I've seen smaller stories nit picked over. And like it or not, it is an issue still in Ireland and will effects a large number of votes although likely not the AH demographic.

_Kaiser_

See this is what annoys me in this country..

Someone announces that they're gay and there's an immediate outpouring of support from the liberal politically correct types (you only have to read the first page of this thread)

Personally I don't give a fook if someone is gay or not. It's their own business and if they're happy then who cares what anyone thinks? In short this is a non-story and in fact, isn't that how it should be?

I'd be far more interested in hearng what Leo is doing to fix the HSE myself

DeanAustin

Jawgap wrote: »

Plenty - I was brought in to set up a new system of regulatory controls under some new EU legislation that was coming in. I had the system devised, piloted and ready to roll within those first 6 months, and ultimately we sold the bespoke software that was developed to support it to about 10 other EU member states and a few third countries.

What were the regulatory controls?

How did you go from that to proof reading students' assignments?

catallus

jank wrote: »

Chirst, the guy is in the job not even 6 months and you want him to come out with a grand plan...

If this excuse and the excuse of "A General Election is coming up" was to be believed then nothing would ever change.

What we need are people like Varadkar to get shít done, not more of the same.

This political game has gone on for too long.

Donkey Oaty

efb wrote: »

I remember that so cringeworthy

If they lead with "BLUESHIRTLIFTER!" tomorrow then we will really have cause for concern.

But look around for the more subtle signs - people saying Leo V "admitted" or "confessed" rather than "said".

Gbear

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Soccer fans seem to get away with torrid personal abuse towards players. One can only imagine the abuse an openly gay player would unfortunately receive.

I think a lot of people mistake the driving force behind a lot of abuse.

And it goes for people in loads of other situations as well - twitter trolls, people calling you a ****** when you play games online, dickheads down the pub and so on.

An awful lot of people will go to almost any lengths to hurt another person's feelings. It includes things they don't care about, things they don't believe or things that are a feature of their own lives as well.

It's why someone can say something utterly revolting and then turn around and be a sane person with a family, gay friends or friends of a different ethnicity that they love and not have their brains melt from the hypocrisy.

I don't think wanton abuse is a good barometer of social attitudes but rather a measure of someone's self-control and self-awareness.
Anonymity or abstraction erode that self-awareness, which is why it's a lot less common to see people ranting and raving at others face to face.

All IMO, of course.

Paramite Pie

AgileMyth wrote: »

Never understood the notion of coming out.

What business is it of anyone else? Nobody ever comes out as straight.

That's because we're all "straight" until we tell you otherwise. Ask a straight person to confirm if they're straight and you'll get some stares.:pac:

When people at work or college keep asking me about girls then it gets kind of awkward. Some older lads in longterm relationships feel the need to live vicariously through my young single years & what I do at the wkend. They're probably just trying to bond but it got awkward at times because I wasn't comfortable with telling people or lying about it either!

I understand it's normal/ie common to assume people are straight and to be honest I'd do it too if I'm straight. But sometimes my peers just need to get them memo! Just come out and let gossipers do the rest!!!:D

[Deleted User]

Dean0088 wrote: »

Bit shocked at the "so what" attitude on here from some people. If a random B-List celebrity in Australia says something slightly controversial we're on here debating it for days. But if a serving Minister (and a well respected one) in our own country comes out publicly right before a SSM referendum, upon which the eyes of the world will be, we say "so what?".

Maybe because most people don't find him coming out controversial?

JillyQ

What business is it of anyone else. Who cares what he does in his private time.

DeanAustin

mad muffin wrote: »

I don't get payed the big buck to be specific.

But you had an opinion on it so you must have some expectations to judge him against.

Put them up here and let's see if what you think he should have done/accomplished in 6 months is realistic.

jank

Jawgap wrote: »

Leo is populist because he won't come out and say what needs to be said - that larger units provide better health outcomes, therefore we need to rationalise, therefore hospitals etc need to be closed in smaller towns, to be replaced by step-down and community care facilities.

Plus why not address the staggeringly huge administration inefficiencies in the HSE? Could it be that, again, it would mean closing offices and facilities in provincial and county towns?

People talk about the 'interest groups' and they are problematic but I get the sense there would be significant support for a Minister who decided to take them on, so that's not the real reason the politicians (including Leo) are avoiding the fight - they're happy to blame the unions because they know if / when they win that fight the consequence will be closures which are political suicide at the local level.

Chirst, the guy is in the job not even 6 months and you want him to come out with a grand plan to restructure the health service, pick a huge fight with the unions, cut public sector administrative jobs, close down all low grade regional hospitals all within 12 months of a General Election... and you call him populist for not doing it... Jaysus!

There is a lot that can be done with the Health Service but now is not the time to be looking for a huge overhaul. Guide the thing over the line for the GE of 2016 and then FG and Leo if they are still in power can commit to their radical changes or whatever strategy they have in mind. No use picking those huge fights now and watching on the sidelines over the next 6 years when the Shinners and whomever get the levers of power. If you think FG and Leo are populist in this regard, the god help you if Sinn Fein get into power.

Jawgap

DeanAustin wrote: »

And in the first six months of that job, what did you accomplish?

Plenty - I was brought in to set up a new system of regulatory controls under some new EU legislation that was coming in. I had the system devised, piloted and ready to roll within those first 6 months, and ultimately we sold the bespoke software that was developed to support it to about 10 other EU member states and a few third countries.

efb

mikom wrote: »

In fairness, if any song is gonna make you straight, it ain't gonna be the signature song from the musical Wicked......... :pac:

Strength and dang SwiftKey keyboard

mad muffin

DeanAustin wrote: »

Ah no be a bit more specific than that.

I don't get payed the big buck to be specific.

efb

RayM wrote: »

Howlin 'came out' as heterosexual a few years ago, before he ran for the Labour leadership. He appeared on the front page of the Star (wearing a big woolly jumper and drinking a dirty big pint of stout) with the headline "Howlin: I'm not Gay".

I remember that so cringeworthy

Bootros Bootros

Jawgap wrote: »

Let's just say that up until September last year I had a reasonably middle to senior management post in the public service.

Health is a health issue. Thinks like SSM, the children's rights amendment, etc are social.

Leo is populist because he won't come out and say what needs to be said - that larger units provide better health outcomes, therefore we need to rationalise, therefore hospitals etc need to be closed in smaller towns, to be replaced by step-down and community care facilities.

Plus why not address the staggeringly huge administration inefficiencies in the HSE? Could it be that, again, it would mean closing offices and facilities in provincial and county towns?

People talk about the 'interest groups' and they are problematic but I get the sense there would be significant support for a Minister who decided to take them on, so that's not the real reason the politicians (including Leo) are avoiding the fight - they're happy to blame the unions because they know if / when they win that fight the consequence will be closures which are political suicide at the local level.

If something is political sucicide because people don't want it it's fairly understandable that politicans are reluctant. Also I can understand why people who know that a hospital is now 5 minutes away would get upset at it being 40 minutes away - over rural roads. From their point of view that probably is a downgrade in service. Some people would clearly die in those situations where they wouldn't with a closer hospital.

And that's not the reason why health is in trolley crisis. Recently Ennis or somewhere in the mid west had to be reopened because of over crowding in Limerick.

You sound to me like you want to protect your class ( middle to senior management in the PS) and blame the people or the minister for a crisis of competency in the PS.

Jawgap

Bootros Bootros wrote: »

Those solutions are your solutions. I can't really see what amalgamation is going to do to solve the trolley crisis. I mean people will be travelling further to lie on trolleys but that's hardly a benefit.

No, they're not my solutions - they're culled from any number of reports that have circulated over the years pointing to what needs to be done. All it needs is some willing politician to pick up one of them, turn to his senior civil servants and say, "implement this."

If community / primary care was beefed up fewer people would have to travel to the EDs - likewise if there was more step down provision there'd be fewer delayed discharges (bed blockers) meaning people could be admitted quicker as beds would free up. Money saved could also fund contingency services allowing wards / beds to be brought on stream quicker in times of higher demand.

About €5 million gets you a comprehensive air ambulance service for the country. Likewise money saved can be ploughed into proper road ambulance provisions further decreasing response and travel times.

mikom

efb wrote: »

I remember my decision to come out after years of agonizing. Telling my sister then later telling her I was going to tell my parents. I was crying my eyes out on the bus up from Waterford with Defying Gravity playing to give me straight.

In fairness, if any song is gonna make you straight, it ain't gonna be the signature song from the musical Wicked......... :pac:

Larbre34

efb wrote: »

He hasn't come out publically so you are just speculating

The day is not over yet. He has been known within his constituency to be gay for probably 25 years and nobody gives a fig.

I suspect in advance of the gay marriage vote, most Oireachtas members will have to be open about their sexuality to participate without duplicity in the debate

bonerjams03

Glad he's come out of the cabinet.

DeanAustin

Jawgap wrote: »

Let's just say that up until September last year I had a reasonably middle to senior management post in the public service.

And in the first six months of that job, what did you accomplish?

handlemaster

Next leader of FG possibly government.

mad muffin

Daith wrote: »

Have you come out yourself? Do you know many ppl who have?

I'm not gay. I currently have no gay friends.

Saying that. I don't see being gay or coming out publicly as gay, as a public figure, is a big deal, this day and age in our society.

Now. If you come out as gay in Russia, the Middle east. And any other country that it is actually dangerous to come out as such. The. It's a big deal.