nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

Strike On ! Proposed New Junior Cert See Mod Warning Post #1

MrJones1973

Highjacking OP's post for ....

Mod Gentle Warning

OK folks, It looks like this is going to be 'The strike-thread', so for the proposes of civility I'd ask that we just try to keep the title in mind to focus the debate as a lot of 'kitchen sinks' are going to get thrown around.

We've done the circular blame game of young vs' old teachers to death on here so I think the time is appropriate to move on.

Also the circular argument of ASTI vs TUI/INTO.

Also management vs' teachers.

These can muddy the waters of the substantive issue of the proposed JCSA and the strike action.

As usual...

Read charter (there will be a test for the boldies).
Report stuff ... or use the ignore function for people who annoy you.
It's an open forum so think of it as an oppertunity to challenge and change some peoples' views.

MOD

Are most voting? What way? No real talks have occurred with Minister because of ballot. JMB has suggested we go back to 2011 NCCA proposals-though their timing for this suggestion (during a ballot) is seen as poor.
Bottom line folks unless you are prepared to go out for a few strike days-you're screwed. That's my view-all that's being suggested so far is a few Temporary A posts to help bring it in. Jan also says "Its not about money"

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

amacca

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

The general secretary ASTI needs to be elected. Demand it. Motions will be circulating around branch meetings in January for convention. Our branch proposed it- support it by getting off your backsides and going to meetings. Otherwise what has a Gen Sec on 130 k to lose by agreeing to partnership deals. He doubts the memberships appetite for strike but fails to provide leadership or back the recommendation of his own ASTI CEC(elected by members) to reject HR2-instead does a roadshow funded by members to vote for it!

Ok..I will.

byhookorbycrook

Interesting to see a letter in the Examiner today from a student council in a school in Navan supporting the teachers' stance.

MacGyver007

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Interesting to see a letter in the Examiner today from a student council in a school in Navan supporting the teachers' stance.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/yourview/teachers-have-our-junior-cert-dispute-backing-304283.html

MrJones1973

Jan 22nd will go ahead-mark my words or I will forever vanish on this site. What is mood in staff rooms?

r93kaey5p2izun

Most in my staffroom seem to be resigned to the inevitability of significant compromise and view strike days as a nuisance. It's depressing.

evolving_doors

Ya I think teachers in my staff room have generally accepted the strike. Standing out in the cold has woken a few up in terms of the profession and where education is going.

km79

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Jan 22nd will go ahead-mark my words or I will forever vanish on this site. What is mood in staff rooms?

most people are the same as they always were and always will be
ambivalent

rainbowtrout

There hasn't been any talk of oy really in my staffroom really since we came back. However the odd time it's come up those that were negative towards it (hassle, a days pay docked) aren't so now. That's is a little bit of progress.

sitstill

Do people think it will actually go ahead? Or will they cancel it after these talks on Wednesday with the promise or more talks or some such? I'm getting worried the unions will row back on their stance regarding marking our own students.

aratsarse101

sitstill wrote: »

Do people think it will actually go ahead? Or will they cancel it after these talks on Wednesday with the promise or more talks or some such? I'm getting worried the unions will row back on their stance regarding marking our own students.

me too! I really hope it goes ahead but you wouldn't know what sort of deals will be done.

Frankly frank

aratsarse101 wrote: »

me too! I really hope it goes ahead but you wouldn't know what sort of deals will be done.

Why not more days? As others have pointed out , continue negotiations and refuse to implement JC programme.
Another strike day - We lose income again as do LC students for exams.
More rudderless leadership, where were strikes over pay scales and cuts ....

MrJones1973

Ah jeez-if you dont strike nothing will happen. This issue needs to be forced-would suit Government to have quiet Industrial action. The Strike will go ahead-so stop asking (Teacher voice-look sternly at other posters)

gaiscioch

Last Thursday they took the money from the last strike out of my pay. I note they still have not given me my increment, which should have been paid from 1 December 2014 (itself 3 months later than normal).

"We'll deduct your strike day asap, but delay paying your increment asap" What a fine, eloquent two fingers from the Department of Education to Irish teachers.

evolving_doors

Frankly frank wrote: »

Why not more days? As others have pointed out , continue negotiations and refuse to implement JC programme.
Another strike day - We lose income again as do LC students for exams.
More rudderless leadership, where were strikes over pay scales and cuts ....

Ya I was thinking about that (ignoring that lunch-time strike non-event thing). At the time of CP/HR it was mostly unions etc at the table every other day negotiating over bits and pieces.. so at that stage (and it went on for a fair while) I don't think anyone was going to walk out of the talks and start a strike. As I said before a lot of teachers hadn't a clue what was involved (in fairness there were many elements of give and take to the CP/HR too) so I believe the appetite for strike amongst 'some' teachers simply wasn't there. That was evident by the fact that the motion was passed after the 3rd vote!!!! Teachers just gave up.

This time thought the issue is clear cut. In school assessment or not! So it's a very easy thing to strike over, i.e. take a stand on one issue (not specifically pay related) and hope it strengthens the union with teachers getting on board. And also a bit of a 'rally the troops' for further negotiations if the JCSA in-school assessment is defeated.

evolving_doors

anyone read the FINNISH EXPERT on education in the irish times today. He seemed to offer a bit of balance to the whole debate saying that Ireland shouldn't follow other countries just for the sake of it.

Also they mentioned "Almost all other stakeholders have come out in support of the reform plan, the latest being the Association of Community and Comprehensive Schools, which represents 95 such schools nationwide."

I was just wondering what's the story with these 95 schools. Is it their teachers who are backing the JCSA in-school assessment,, or the managerial body of the schools?

Link HERE

acequion

Thanks for posting that link,Armelodie.I have no idea who this crowd are. State backed people,one would suspect. To my knowledge,community school teachers would be members of the TUI. Hopefully community school teachers who read this thread can enlighten us.

It is worrying to hear of these "stakeholders" who are supposedly all "on board" yet none are actual teachers. While it's not surprising to read such things in The Times or The Indo,it sends out the wrong signals.

Fingers crossed that there will be no climbdown or "compromise. There hasn't been a better time in the last six years to face down the Government's agenda.

Kalimera

ACCS is the management body of Community and Comprehensive schools. The equivalent body to JMB for the Voluntary Secondary schools. See accs.ie
Community schools have both ASTI & TUI members in them. In some ASTI are a majority, in others TUI.

katydid

acequion wrote: »

Thanks for posting that link,Armelodie.I have no idea who this crowd are. State backed people,one would suspect. To my knowledge,community school teachers would be members of the TUI. Hopefully community school teachers who read this thread can enlighten us.

Community COLLEGES are VEC (now ETB) run and teachers would be TUI members. But Community SCHOOLS are not VEC(ETB) run and have a mixture of TUI and ASTI, as far as I know.

acequion

Thanks to the above posters for clarifying. So,why are ACCS supporting the reforms?

katydid

acequion wrote: »

Thanks to the above posters for clarifying. So,why are ACCS supporting the reforms?

They're not teachers and have no concern for the students or the system?

acequion

No.Clearly not. Just like all these other "stakeholders".

clunked

Propaganda in full flow from Jan on the News at 1. Its obvious that she is the puppet and the strings are being controlled elsewhere.

RealJohn

clunked wrote: »

Propaganda in full flow from Jan on the News at 1. Its obvious that she is the puppet and the strings are being controlled elsewhere.

We knew that anyway in fairness. Quinn jumped the shark a bit and started having ideas so they needed to replace him with someone more easily controlled. I feel sorry for her in some ways. She doesn't seem like a bad sort really. I'd almost think that if she wasn't under orders not to give in to the teachers that she might actually be able to see things the way they are. We'll see I suppose.

endakenny

clunked wrote: »

Propaganda in full flow from Jan on the News at 1. Its obvious that she is the puppet and the strings are being controlled elsewhere.

Where are the strings being pulled? I doubt that civil servants are pulling the strings because the minister is the boss of the department and thus civil servants have to obey the minister.

RealJohn

Trying to deflect attention from the most obvious puppet master Enda?

endakenny

RealJohn wrote: »

Trying to deflect attention from the most obvious puppet master Enda?

Very funny.

evolving_doors

endakenny wrote: »

Where are the strings being pulled? I doubt that civil servants are pulling the strings because the minister is the boss of the department and thus civil servants have to obey the minister.

Have a look at 'Yes Minister' . Theyre not called the 'permanent government' for nothing.

BTW has Jan appointed any new advisors since her appointment, or has she kept Ruairi's?

endakenny

Armelodie wrote: »

Have a look at 'Yes Minister' . Theyre not called the 'permanent government' for nothing.

BTW has Jan appointed any new advisors since her appointment, or has she kept Ruairi's?

I have the DVD box-set but I've only got around to watching two episodes so far. Why would a minister be afraid not to adhere to what the advisors say?

evolving_doors

endakenny wrote: »

I have the DVD box-set but I've only got around to watching two episodes so far. Why would a minister be afraid not to adhere to what the advisors say?

its not simply a matter of fear. Seriously though, watch the whole box set then your question .. and many questions you ask about how politics works... will be more than answered.

rainbowtrout

endakenny wrote: »

Where are the strings being pulled? I doubt that civil servants are pulling the strings because the minister is the boss of the department and thus civil servants have to obey the minister.

An extremely naive way of looking at how politics works. Senior civil servants are in place for years and years. Ministers come and go, they are often appointed to a department in which they have no experience. Of course they are going to take their lead from senior civil servants.