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CAF MK4 in Dire need of refurbishment

SpaceTime

I was on the CAF Intercity Mk4 in CityGold just before Christmas and I was really horrified at the state of it.

The carpets are threadbare, the arms of my seat were broken and the covers were coming off the seats in a lot of cases.
The standard class coaches were looking very very tatty too.

I'm shocked that they're looking that bad when they're not all that long in service.
I'll be avoiding the train from now on. This kind of stuff will put passengers off traveling on Irish Rail.

I assume they've blown the budget and they'll just let these trains fall to bits?

Also they're still very shakey. You definitely feel every pothole!

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end of the road

SpaceTime wrote: »

I was on the CAF Intercity Mk4 in CityGold just before Christmas and I was really horrified at the state of it.

The carpets are threadbare, the arms of my seat were broken and the covers were coming off the seats in a lot of cases.
The standard class coaches were looking very very tatty too.

I'm shocked that they're looking that bad when they're not all that long in service.

i'm not TBH. i honestly think irish rail just don't want these carriges now that they aren't shiny and new.

SpaceTime wrote: »

I'll be avoiding the train from now on.

sorry to hear that.

SpaceTime wrote: »

This kind of stuff will put passengers off traveling on Irish Rail.

probably one of many things all right.

SpaceTime wrote: »

I assume they've blown the budget and they'll just let these trains fall to bits?

god knows. nothing irish rail does or will ever do shockes or surprises me. they do what they like and feck everyone else, thats always been the way. operational convenience comes first.

SpaceTime wrote: »

Also they're still very shakey. You definitely feel every pothole!

when i traveled on them a couple of years ago i didn't notice anything like that, but maybe the particular vehicle i was in was fine. did they not do modifications on them to sort out all that anyway?

SpaceTime

They're basically over due a mid life service at this stage. The carpets are an absolute mess!

corktina

SpaceTime wrote: »

They're basically over due a mid life service at this stage. The carpets are an absolute mess!

Mid life? they are almost new

SpaceTime

They should be getting regular in service tweaks.

Captain Chaos

corktina wrote: »

Mid life? they are almost new

8 years old at this stage. They are due a refurb alright, where to money is going to come from is another thing. Mid life is not the right term in this case though that's what the Enterprise stock is currently going through.

SpaceTime

Well an "early life" service then.
They're starting to look like a tatty living room sofa that's been through a few house parties and they urgently need sockets fitted.

They should be kitted out like this :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ji-h0CvaWws

The 22000s with leather seats fitted - looks very classy.

The MK4s would look fantastic with similar leather seating.

Jamie2k9

The 22000s with leather seats fitted - looks very classy.

Leather covers (if I am not mistaken), the seats are the exact same as standard class. Only fools would pay for first class service on the 22s.

n97 mini

Is it real leather or is it PU? The latter is very common these days.

I took a train to Cork a while back and agree with the OP. They're fairly tatty and the blue tinted windows give them an 80s look.

Markcheese

Almost all the airline seats are leather(ish) these days, I assume it's cos it's more hard wearing ,and the airline won't be a seat down if someone spills a drink - in the grand scheme of things it probably costs about the same -

Jamie2k9

n97 mini wrote: »

Is it real leather or is it PU? The latter is very common these days.

I took a train to Cork a while back and agree with the OP. They're fairly tatty and the blue tinted windows give them an 80s look.

Given Irish Rails financial situation I expect its not real.

BoatMad

SpaceTime wrote: »

Well an "early life" service then.
They're starting to look like a tatty living room sofa that's been through a few house parties and they urgently need sockets fitted.

They should be kitted out like this :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ji-h0CvaWws

The 22000s with leather seats fitted - looks very classy.

The MK4s would look fantastic with similar leather seating.

Bring back proper bench seats with high backs, now thats comfort. Not these nasty high density individual seats with minimal cushioning. Would you have one in your home ??, The victorians knew how to fashion an armchair, and they knew how to put one in a train.

end of the road

BoatMad wrote: »

Bring back proper bench seats with high backs, now thats comfort.

like the mark 2 and cravens stock had? yes i'd agree they were very comfortable and nothing since can match them

BoatMad

end of the road wrote: »

like the mark 2 and cravens stock had? yes i'd agree they were very comfortable and nothing since can match them

or the park royal three wide bench seat , heaven to curl up in on your own !

end of the road

BoatMad wrote: »

or the park royal three wide bench seat , heaven to curl up in on your own !

ah i see, sadly i was very young when the park royal carriges were withdrawn so i wouldn't remember them

BoatMad

end of the road wrote: »

ah i see, sadly i was very young when the park royal carriges were withdrawn so i wouldn't remember them

funny how as we ( or IR) modernise trains, they get LESS comfortable

I had the same experience in Italy, The ICE express trains are full of cramped uncomfortable seating, so I always try and get local stoping trains, these still have the joys of 6 seat compartments !!!!. Big plush comfy armchair style seats , miles better then the ICE seating, and a few nuns always for company !!.

I enver understand why rail transport gets worse and worse not better and better in terms of passenger experience.

SpaceTime

Because they're trying to make them look like aircraft.

Planes have to use smaller and lighter seats for obvious reasons. There's no real reason why train seats can't be very comfy.

The MK3 seats weren't great either. The first "modern" ones.

TGV seats are OK at times although the older Intercites trains in France are much much more comfortable.

BoatMad

SpaceTime wrote: »

Because they're trying to make them look like aircraft.

Planes have to use smaller and lighter seats for obvious reasons. There's no real reason why train seats can't be very comfy.

The MK3 seats weren't great either. The first "modern" ones.

TGV seats are OK at times although the older Intercites trains in France are much much more comfortable.

funny isn't , a transport mode that is struggling to retain ,market share, constantly creates experiences that increase passengers dis-comfort

Sounds like a winning formula to me:eek:

SpaceTime

I think it's possibly about form over function though. Most new trains just loom futuristic. The MK4 is the ultimate example of that.
Almost sci fi interior big pointy front end yet, its just a push-pull 160km/h traditional, low tech diesel train in reality.

BoatMad

SpaceTime wrote: »

I think it's possibly about form over function though. Most new trains just loom futuristic. The MK4 is the ultimate example of that.
Almost sci fi interior big pointy front end yet, its just a push-pull 160km/h traditional, low tech diesel train in reality.

is there an equivalent " hi-tech" version, that doesn't require flux capacitors or miles of overhead lines.

Who cares about futuristic, i want comfort. ( I remember a friend describing his lexus as his sitting room couch that does 70 mph.) thats sounds about right.

if I could get a nice cup of coffee and a half decent snack to boot, Id be in seventh heaven. I don't want a 100mph train with hard uncomfortable seats, I want a reliable dependant comfortable one that does 70mph every day all day.

Oh and facing seats please, god dammed aircraft style seating, chops up legroom.

Markcheese

BoatMad wrote: »

is there an equivalent " hi-tech" version, that doesn't require flux capacitors or miles of overhead lines.

Who cares about futuristic, i want comfort. ( I remember a friend describing his lexus as his sitting room couch that does 70 mph.) thats sounds about right.

if I could get a nice cup of coffee and a half decent snack to boot, Id be in seventh heaven. I don't want a 100mph train with hard uncomfortable seats, I want a reliable dependant comfortable one that does 70mph every day all day.

Oh and facing seats please, god dammed aircraft style seating, chops up legroom.

When I've gone cork-Dublin recently it's been grand ,not uncomfortable at all ,some people like facing seats-when it's busy some people would rather airline style seating ..

roundymac

I did'nt realise there was that much of a difference in ride comfort until I did a trip to Dublin before xmas. We went up on a Mk4 and returned on 22000. The Rotem was as comfortable as anything I ever remember being on, the Mk4 was very poor in comparision.

SpaceTime

There's definitely something not quite right about the ride quality on the MK4s. I think they should have had entirely new bogies fitted.

I found the ride quality on CAF medium speed trains in Spain poor too though. Perhaps they just have very hard suspensions?

BoatMad

Markcheese wrote: »

When I've gone cork-Dublin recently it's been grand ,not uncomfortable at all ,some people like facing seats-when it's busy some people would rather airline style seating ..

If you take ANY railway carriage which has both opposed and single facing seats, you will always find the opposed seating fills first.

corktina

Markcheese wrote: »

When I've gone cork-Dublin recently it's been grand ,not uncomfortable at all ,some people like facing seats-when it's busy some people would rather airline style seating ..

but forward facing seats only work 50% of the time, unlike aircraft

BoatMad

corktina wrote: »

but forward facing seats only work 50% of the time, unlike aircraft

single facing seats were introduced to maximise passenger loadings, they are particularly important as the speed rises and train weight must be reduced, this is done by packing more people into lighter carriages in an overall shorter train.

it has nothing to do with passenger comfort , and as such exemplifies what wrong with railing thinking, likes IRs , that sees efficiency over everything else. The most efficient railway being of course one that isn't there at all.

if you own a cow, you can't make it increasing efficient by loping of its legs , eventually it dies, the trick is to remember why you have a cow, to grow the milk business. IR just chops off legs,

The WRC promotion shows what happens when you remember your job is to promote passenger travel.

corktina

A choice of single facing seats and bays is quite widespread, I always go for the single facing seats rather than share a bay with three strangers.

SeanW

BoatMad wrote: »

Bring back proper bench seats with high backs, now thats comfort. Not these nasty high density individual seats with minimal cushioning. Would you have one in your home ??, The victorians knew how to fashion an armchair, and they knew how to put one in a train.

Mother of jaysus >_< "premier" my ass. They're just the same as Standard seats except for the (faux) leather covering and the gammy lamp ...

LXFlyer

BoatMad wrote: »

If you take ANY railway carriage which has both opposed and single facing seats, you will always find the opposed seating fills first.

Plenty of people (myself included) prefer single facing seats if travelling alone.

Losty Dublin

SpaceTime wrote: »

There's definitely something not quite right about the ride quality on the MK4s. I think they should have had entirely new bogies fitted.

I found the ride quality on CAF medium speed trains in Spain poor too though. Perhaps they just have very hard suspensions?

The issues in relation to their ride quality here owe a lot to some sections of the Per Way and line speeds. As line speeds increased and PW teams sort out some soft spots, their performances have improved a lot.

lucernarian

Losty Dublin wrote: »

The issues in relation to their ride quality here owe a lot to some sections of the Per Way and line speeds. As line speeds increased and PW teams sort out some soft spots, their performances have improved a lot.

Took a Mark 4 train to Portlaoise this week. I thought the train was in good condition with the exception of the upholstery on chairs and I found the lack of electric sockets to be annoying even if it didn't affect me. The blue tint to the windows was fine though a little too "blue" perhaps. I was told they had good ride quality compared to the 22K but I wasn't impressed with that part. From around Newbridge I think to Portarlington I found the train ride to be shockingly bumpy. I was suprised by how much everything rattled with small jolts you wouldn't experience on the Enterprise and after Portarlington it was much smoother and enjoyable. I checked my GPS during the rougher part and the recorded speed was 140 km/h.