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Government's homelessness forum

Littlekittylou

Government's homelessness forum under way in Dublin,

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=978778592151143&pnref=story

Alan Kelly has said all homeless to be offered beds by Christmas

He said he believed it was possible to get everyone who wanted a bed in 7 to 10 days.

That's what the politicians are saying.

This is what St Vincent De Paul says.
John-Mark McCafferty, head of social justice and policy at Society of St Vincent de Paul National Office said the target of moving all rough sleepers off the streets by Christmas was optimistic. “I think it’s very ambitious. Rough sleeping has been a facet of homelessness and homeless policy for many years. I don’t think it’s something that can be fixed in the next three weeks.”

It's being increased to 200 beds. I don't have numbers but I would have thought there are more people sleeping rough than that.

The forum was prompted by the death of Johnathan Corrie yards from Leinster House on Monday.

Mike Allen, the Director of Advocacy with Focus Ireland, said that increasing rent supplement needs to be a priority to address the issue of homelessness.He warned that ministers also need to prevent a haemorrhage of homelessness by increasing rent supplement or by introducing rent controls.

The govts sudden actions seem a bit amateurish. I wonder why if it was so easy it's only happening now.

I don't doubt the genuine feeling behind it and it's a welcome effort.

Also many of these people will have serious problems with addicts or ill mental health.

Very strange revelations have come to the surface about Mr Corrie the man who died. Which if true really changed my perception over a story that really got to me.

The distraught mother of Mr Corrie has said her family did everything possible to help him during his lifetime. Last night, Jean Corrie told her former curate at St Canice's Cathedral in Kilkenny that she and her late-husband bought Jonathan two houses in succession to enable him and his girlfriend to move into.
Reverend Robert McCarthy said he understood that Jonathan had sold both houses.

He had been BOUGHT two not one which is amazing in itself for a parent to do for a child but two houses. That's unreal. I am so sorry for the man and his family regardless but it's unimaginable to me how that could happen.

And I still lament his passing and feel he should not have been sleeping rough though don't get me wrong.

Rev McCarthy said Jonathan had a drug dependency but the cause of his death would not be known until a post-mortem examination had been completed.

How much help can people give though?

Well done on Alan Kelly and Paudie Coffee for holding the forum. The Archbishops were there. I know the church does a lot for the homeless but I don't know really how qualified they are nor how much imput they gave. Perhaps they can give funding.

I know the Waterford Whispers did a sort of send up article a few days ago. They made some valid points. Homelessness is complex. The govts strategy to provide beds is admirable but they need to look at rent control and treatment centers with equal vigor.

Jonathon Corrie had been BOUGHT TWO houses in succession before he died on the streets homeless sleeping rough due to his drug addictions.

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Chucken

It took a poor man to die on their workplace doorstep for them to have a kneejerk reaction that will make dip shit difference to anything.

What about this? http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/800-children-made-homeless-in-first-10-months-of-2014-30768330.html

Mr Kelly trying to save his seat.

At least he a seat to sit on :mad:

Venus In Furs

In my opinion it's treatment of drug addiction/mental illness that was the most pressing concern in the case of this poor man.
These services are there - how easily available they are though probably depends. There is a degree of the person being willing to accept help too.

Blaming the government and "society"... I just do not understand what use this is...

Littlekittylou

Chucken wrote: »

It took a poor man to die on their workplace doorstep for them to have a kneejerk reaction that will make dip shit difference to anything.

What about this? http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/800-children-made-homeless-in-first-10-months-of-2014-30768330.html

Mr Kelly trying to save his seat.

At least he a seat to sit on :mad:

Since the start of this year there was a 50% in people sleeping rough.

Your story headline is even more shocking and disturbing. There is a VERY high correlation between child homelessness and adult homelessness. There are also the risks of falling into addicting behaviors at such a young age.

Littlekittylou

Venus In Furs wrote: »

In my opinion it's treatment of drug addiction/mental illness that was the most pressing concern in the case of this poor man.
These services are there - how easily available they are though probably depends. There is a degree of the person being willing to accept help too.

Blaming the government and "society"... I just do not understand what use this is...

I don't know if that is the general public sentiment at the moment. Perhaps it's more of an urge to help.

I have never used drugs and have little experience there. I do think some personalities are more vulnerable to extreme addiction and depression. I think heroine is drug that gives an insatiable hunger for more of it that murders everything else in the user.

There are some addicts perhaps that cannot be helped. They are willing but always relapse. There is a saying Al Anon have 'never give up giving up'. But whilst that is important there is another truth in that saying many people give up and relapse and give up and relapse.

Also there need to be employment opportunities. They need training or education. They need obviously the basics in the immediate future. But they need long term plans too.Most of these people will not have finished school perhaps or have very basic literacy. Our economy is only just recovering and we did not invest in the programs we should have when we had the revenue. Inner city schools need more funding.

But I also think there is a wildness in living rough. Not a happy free one. But a type of wildness that is perhaps difficult to tame. Or a sense of being unworthy of respect and a decent life.

These people obviously need mental help and mentoring too.

Chucken

Littlekittylou wrote: »

Since the start of this year there was a 50% in people sleeping rough.

Your story headline is even more shocking and disturbing. There is a VERY high correlation between child homelessness and adult homelessness. There are also the risks of falling into addicting behaviors at such a young age.

Its not my story. Its a fact of this country and a governments kneejerk reaction to someone dying on their workplace door step.

NIMAN

This is the main story in the country now due to this guys unfortunate death, it has taken over from the water debate.

But mark my words, it will be yesterdays news soon enough, most of the media will forget about the homelessness issue, and people will still be sleeping rough.

Its an unsolvable problem imho. This man was bought two houses in the past, was offered a bed indoors the night he died, yet he still preferred to go to the streets.

Highflyer13

Very sad that it took someone to die for action to be taken. Id also start looking at the rampant drug use and easy availability of drugs in Dublin City Centre if we want to eliminate 1 of the major sources of homelessness.

Littlekittylou

NIMAN wrote: »

Its an unsolvable problem imho. This man was bought two houses in the past, was offered a bed indoors the night he died, yet he still preferred to go to the streets.

This is what's mind boggling did he not realize the danger he was in, what with temperatures in winter etc?

Chucken

Littlekittylou wrote: »

This is what's mind boggling did he not realize the danger he was in, what with temperatures in winter etc?

What is mind boggling is that you said: Well done on Alan Kelly and Paudie Coffee for holding the forum.

They dont CARE.

Heres P.C:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paudie_Coffey

Coffey was elected for the Waterford constituency at the 2011 general election with 9,698 (18.1%) first preference votes.[2]

On 15 July 2014, he was appointed as Minister of State with responsibility for Housing, Planning and Co-ordination of the Construction 2020 Strategy at the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government.

Are you effin joking me?

corner of hells

NIMAN wrote: »

This is the main story in the country now due to this guys unfortunate death, it has taken over from the water debate.

But mark my words, it will be yesterdays news soon enough, most of the media will forget about the homelessness issue, and people will still be sleeping rough.

Its an unsolvable problem imho. This man was bought two houses in the past, was offered a bed indoors the night he died, yet he still preferred to go to the streets.

Littlekittylou wrote: »

This is what's mind boggling did he not realize the danger he was in, what with temperatures in winter etc?

He may have missed the cut off time for accessing the hostel , most will want you in by 10pm .
He might have used and been under the influence and been unable to reach the hostel.

He may have been afraid to stay in the hostel.

NIMAN

corner of hells wrote: »

He may have missed the cut off time for accessing the hostel , most will want you in by 10pm .
He might have used and been under the influence and been unable to reach the hostel.

He may have been afraid to stay in the hostel.

Think I heard this mentioned on the news.

AS for the new places that will be opened for Xmas, are the Gov going to provide security for them too, so users can feel safe in them?

Chucken

NIMAN wrote: »

Think I heard this mentioned on the news.

AS for the new places that will be opened for Xmas, are the Gov going to provide security for them too, so users can feel safe in them?

Its 20 days away. FSS. They're trying to brush the 'problem' away.
Nothing is going to be sorted.

NIMAN

I fear you are right Chucken.

They are 'all-action' due to the death, but as I said, it'll soon be yesterdays news.

I bet they are nearly looking forward to the Dec 10 water protests !!

corner of hells

NIMAN wrote: »

Think I heard this mentioned on the news.

AS for the new places that will be opened for Xmas, are the Gov going to provide security for them too, so users can feel safe in them?

I work in homeless services , the government doesn't run them apart from a couple of DCC ones , I don't think theres security in any of them.

Littlekittylou

corner of hells wrote: »

He may have missed the cut off time for accessing the hostel , most will want you in by 10pm .
He might have used and been under the influence and been unable to reach the hostel.

He may have been afraid to stay in the hostel.

He had been offered a bed. I suspect he had other plans for the night that they would not allow him to partake of there to be honest I know it sounds awful to say.

Yes also he could have feared the rough atmosphere and very real potential threat of violence.

Lapin

There are as many reasons for homelessness as there are people on the streets and the government can't be blamed for it all. Money is needed, but throwing lots of money at the problem won't solve it. It would make things worse.

Much of the mess some homeless people find themselves in comes down to an abandonment of personal responsibility or an unwillingness to face up to realities in their own lives and try to do something about it themselves.

Some people are content to wallow in an existance of victimhood and demand entitlement without responsibility. (A trait not confined to people sleeping in doorways and on park benches).

Of course the government has a duty to help those who need it (though they don't always want it), and as such, yesterday's efforts are a step in the right direction.

But governments only act when people kick up a fuss, and for all the anger and noise they made in the last week, where were the people up to now?

I'll tell you where. Walking past people in doorways and on park benches up and down the length and breath of this country getting on with their own lives.

And now people are saying, it took the death of a man to kick the government into action. Look in the mirror. How many people were ranting and raving this time last week about homelessness? It took the death of a man to give the people another reason to kick lumps out of the government. Nothing wrong with that.

But in a couple of months time it will be something else. The self righteous high and mighty outraged people of Ireland will be kicking lumps out of the government for whatever else comes down the line, and phoning up Joe Duffy to tell him how disgusted they are. And he will egg them on.
And guess what - there will still be people sleeping in doorways and on park benches. I'd put money on that.

Annasopra

NIMAN wrote: »

Its an unsolvable problem imho. This man was bought two houses in the past, was offered a bed indoors the night he died, yet he still preferred to go to the streets.

Buying a house is not the only way to solve the problem. Addressing homelessness requires multiple approaches.

Saadyst

Lapin wrote: »

...

But governments only act when people kick up a fuss, and for all the anger and noise they made in the last week, where were the people up to now?

I'll tell you where. Walking past people in doorways and on park benches up and down the length and breath of this country getting on with their own lives.

And now people are saying, it took the death of a man to kick the government into action. Look in the mirror. How many people were ranting and raving this time last week about homelessness? It took the death of a man to give the people another reason to kick lumps out of the government. Nothing wrong with that.

But in a couple of months time it will be something else. The self righteous high and mighty outraged people of Ireland will be kicking lumps out of the government for whatever else comes down the line, and phoning up Joe Duffy to tell him how disgusted they are. And he will egg them on.
And guess what - there will still be people sleeping in doorways and on park benches. I'd put money on that.

Fantastic post Lapin.

Graces7

Venus In Furs wrote: »

In my opinion it's treatment of drug addiction/mental illness that was the most pressing concern in the case of this poor man.
These services are there - how easily available they are though probably depends. There is a degree of the person being willing to accept help too.

Blaming the government and "society"... I just do not understand what use this is...

Exactly so. My family work with long term homeless in Canada where there are nearly 3 million living rough on the streets. For many it is a way of life they will seek help for addiction.

You have to be realistic. Provide a bed for the night in bad weather. Many churches there open their basements every winter in the bad weather. We take out bales of hay in winter, hot food and sleeping bags.

Men and women make choices. Some we find hard to understand but we can still provide without judging.

I know one lady in the US who makes a pile of sandwiches each morning and stops to feed homeless men on her way to work. A friend of ours in Canada keeps a pack in his car; blankets, coat, gloves, emergency food and gives it out at need

If each does a little...

Graces7

Lapin wrote: »

There are as many reasons for homelessness as there are people on the streets and the government can't be blamed for it all. Money is needed, but throwing lots of money at the problem won't solve it. It would make things worse.

Much of the mess some homeless people find themselves in comes down to an abandonment of personal responsibility or an unwillingness to face up to realities in their own lives and try to do something about it themselves.

Some people are content to wallow in an existance of victimhood and demand entitlement without responsibility. (A trait not confined to people sleeping in doorways and on park benches).

Of course the government has a duty to help those who need it (though they don't always want it), and as such, yesterday's efforts are a step in the right direction.

But governments only act when people kick up a fuss, and for all the anger and noise they made in the last week, where were the people up to now?

I'll tell you where. Walking past people in doorways and on park benches up and down the length and breath of this country getting on with their own lives.

And now people are saying, it took the death of a man to kick the government into action. Look in the mirror. How many people were ranting and raving this time last week about homelessness? It took the death of a man to give the people another reason to kick lumps out of the government. Nothing wrong with that.

But in a couple of months time it will be something else. The self righteous high and mighty outraged people of Ireland will be kicking lumps out of the government for whatever else comes down the line, and phoning up Joe Duffy to tell him how disgusted they are. And he will egg them on.
And guess what - there will still be people sleeping in doorways and on park benches. I'd put money on that.

of course there will. It is a way of life for many and we have no right to judge. How many ordinary folk walk past homeless ones? I saw that in Sligo years ago; old drunk who had fallen and was bleeding and they all, including a Garda, walked past. Yes I topped and made sure there was help

corner of hells

Graces7 wrote: »

Exactly so. My family work with long term homeless in Canada where there are nearly 3 million living rough on the streets. For many it is a way of life they will seek help for addiction.

You have to be realistic. Provide a bed for the night in bad weather. Many churches there open their basements every winter in the bad weather. We take out bales of hay in winter, hot food and sleeping bags.

Men and women make choices. Some we find hard to understand but we can still provide without judging.

I know one lady in the US who makes a pile of sandwiches each morning and stops to feed homeless men on her way to work. A friend of ours in Canada keeps a pack in his car; blankets, coat, gloves, emergency food and gives it out at need

If each does a little...

Grace the population of Canada is about 35 million , there couldn't possibly be 3 million homeless , we have less than four thousand homeless here.

ROCKMAN

Lapin wrote: »

There are as many reasons for homelessness as there are people on the streets and the government can't be blamed for it all. Money is needed, but throwing lots of money at the problem won't solve it. It would make things worse.

Much of the mess some homeless people find themselves in comes down to an abandonment of personal responsibility or an unwillingness to face up to realities in their own lives and try to do something about it themselves.

Some people are content to wallow in an existance of victimhood and demand entitlement without responsibility. (A trait not confined to people sleeping in doorways and on park benches).

Of course the government has a duty to help those who need it (though they don't always want it), and as such, yesterday's efforts are a step in the right direction.

But governments only act when people kick up a fuss, and for all the anger and noise they made in the last week, where were the people up to now?

I'll tell you where. Walking past people in doorways and on park benches up and down the length and breath of this country getting on with their own lives.

And now people are saying, it took the death of a man to kick the government into action. Look in the mirror. How many people were ranting and raving this time last week about homelessness? It took the death of a man to give the people another reason to kick lumps out of the government. Nothing wrong with that.

But in a couple of months time it will be something else. The self righteous high and mighty outraged people of Ireland will be kicking lumps out of the government for whatever else comes down the line, and phoning up Joe Duffy to tell him how disgusted they are. And he will egg them on.
And guess what - there will still be people sleeping in doorways and on park benches. I'd put money on that.

Very good post ,
But they are a small few who have been at the hard face of this issue for years and will continue their fantastic work long after the public outcry as limped away and the general public has return to their normal lifes ,
So if this momentary public and political surge of concern supplies the financial support and physical assets that these front line workers can use then at least something positive will have come from a really sad situation .

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I pass so many homeless people on the way to work. Nearly every single time they ask me "spare change for the homeless" and every single time one of them asks, I ask if they want a tea or a coffee, especially in the mornings when it's cold and they've been out all night. Twice, I've bought teas but the rest of the time they say no that they're okay. It's an addiction that's eating away at them. I won't give money to help them pump themselves with the very thing that's keeping them on the street.

Graces7

corner of hells wrote: »

Grace the population of Canada is about 35 million , there couldn't possibly be 3 million homeless , we have less than four thousand homeless here.

I understand your shock but we take part in the offiicial census and that figure is on the conservative side. There are many hidden homeless. One town just evicted the homeless from sleeping in a park. In one smallish town alone we feed over 600 each day.

Graces7

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I pass so many homeless people on the way to work. Nearly every single time they ask me "spare change for the homeless" and every single time one of them asks, I ask if they want a tea or a coffee, especially in the mornings when it's cold and they've been out all night. Twice, I've bought teas but the rest of the time they say no that they're okay. It's an addiction that's eating away at them. I won't give money to help them pump themselves with the very thing that's keeping them on the street.

Good for you and totally right not to give money. Drug addicts need sugar so maybe give them a bar of chocolate, a few sweets... there is not the will to get clean of drugs.

Graces7

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Very good post ,
But they are a small few who have been at the hard face of this issue for years and will continue their fantastic work long after the public outcry as limped away and the general public has return to their normal lifes ,
So if this momentary public and political surge of concern supplies the financial support and physical assets that these front line workers can use then at least something positive will have come from a really sad situation .

focus and simon take big salaries

KERSPLAT!

Graces7 wrote: »

I understand your shock but we take part in the offiicial census and that figure is on the conservative side. There are many hidden homeless. One town just evicted the homeless from sleeping in a park. In one smallish town alone we feed over 600 each day.

3million!?

http://www.homelesshub.ca/about-homelessness/homelessness-101/how-many-people-are-homeless-canada

There are many articles disagreeing with you, have you any links for the 3 million/10% of the population? Most are citing 30k on any given night.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Why were the deeds of the house in this mans name?

If he has a drug problem or mental health issue, it would be wise to keep the parents name on the deeds to prevent the sale. I understand the first mistake, but to do it again? I dunno...

corner of hells

Graces7 wrote: »

focus and simon take big salaries

Grace , I worked for focus , left them , was reinterviewed for a different job and I can tell you contained staff do not take home huge salaries.
I still work in homeless services , I get ok salary , not big by any means.

yipeeeee

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

3million!?

http://www.homelesshub.ca/about-homelessness/homelessness-101/how-many-people-are-homeless-canada

There are many articles disagreeing withj you, have you any links for the 3 million/10% of the population? Most are citing 30k on any given night.

I think both of you are mixing up what homelessness means with each other.

Homelessness isnt exclusively sleeping rough, its families in hotels etc been put up by the govt.

As is said the other day this poor man was brought to a hostel on the night fed etc but then left of his own accord.

What more could have been done for him that night?

But you had the usual people on here not missing an opportunity to blame the govt and bring water charges into it.

I even saw comments like burn the dail down and enda should be shot.

There is just so much wrong with peoples attitude in Ireland today.