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M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

BluntGuy

The new M20 motorway inbetween Cork and Limerick. I've heard that there are many people that feel it's rather unnecessary considering the traffic volume.

I personally believe if they're going to upgrade the N20 route, they may as well use the safest long-term solution, which of course is a direct motorway link. But what do you all think?

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The Megaphone

jd wrote: »

In this context, pavement means the road service.

Pavement is Road Pavement, so pavement improvements is a nice way of saying 're-surfacing'.

Missyelliot2

It was meant as tongue-in-cheek folks!

irishfeen

Another death and two others seriously injured this evening on the N20 between Buttevant and Mallow - heartbreaking for the family before Christmas ... you would wonder how many more have to die for the M20 to be funded

sonnyblack

irishfeen wrote: »

Another death and two others seriously injured this evening on the N20 between Buttevant and Mallow - heartbreaking for the family before Christmas ... you would wonder how many more have to die for the M20 to be funded

Heard Sean o Neill of NRA on radio recently banging on about red cow opening and gort tuam starting as well as enniscorthy and new Ross bypasses starting next year. No mention of M20. Its an out and out disgrace. Has to be the most dangerous national route in the country. Its at least 5 if not 10 years off Imho

irishfeen

sonnyblack wrote: »

Heard Sean o Neill of NRA on radio recently banging on about red cow opening and gort tuam starting as well as enniscorthy and new Ross bypasses starting next year. No mention of M20. Its an out and out disgrace. Has to be the most dangerous national route in the country. Its at least 5 if not 10 years off Imho

Yeah I heard some guy from the NRA on the last word and when he was specifically asked he pawned off Cooper - I wouldn't be surprised if the NRA has been told no funding will be made available during the lifetime of this government.

L1011

That's what you get for voting in a lot of FF down there :pac:

irishfeen

L1011 wrote: »

That's what you get for voting in a lot of FF down there :pac:

Ha the thing is if FF were in government it probably would go ahead and borrow the money for a few cute hoor votes but Michael Noonan is from Limerick, Simon Coveney is from Cork and N.Cork has Sean Sherlock (Lab) and Tom Barry (FG) but there seems to be no budge at all.

lordhaha

Another death at Ballybeg Buttevant, How many now? How many more before they upgrade at least that section of road? (Had not read Irishfeen post at time of writing.) Anyway of finding out the amount of people killed at that section alone. I live quite near and know of at least 5 in last few years.

veryangryman

Just looking at NRA traffic figures for existing N20

https://www.nratrafficdata.ie/c2/gmapbasic.asp?sgid=ZvyVmXU8jBt9PJE$c7UXt6

11,000 through Charleville
15,000 through Buttevant

Maybe this is why the road is so lowly prioritised? Compare with 20,000 north of Claregalway for instance.

If i was a higher up who knew nothing about either area, Id be putting the money towards the most benefactors (as they have).

Inter-Urbans need priority of course, but the numbers dont lie

TINA1984

veryangryman wrote: »

Just looking at NRA traffic figures for existing N20

https://www.nratrafficdata.ie/c2/gmapbasic.asp?sgid=ZvyVmXU8jBt9PJE$c7UXt6

11,000 through Charleville
15,000 through Buttevant

Maybe this is why the road is so lowly prioritised? Compare with 20,000 north of Claregalway for instance.

If i was a higher up who knew nothing about either area, Id be putting the money towards the most benefactors (as they have).

Inter-Urbans need priority of course, but the numbers dont lie

Not sure about that seeing as current N20 AADTs in places easily match/surpass large swathes of the M18/M6/M8 & M9.

Cookiemunster

veryangryman wrote: »

Just looking at NRA traffic figures for existing N20

https://www.nratrafficdata.ie/c2/gmapbasic.asp?sgid=ZvyVmXU8jBt9PJE$c7UXt6

11,000 through Charleville
15,000 through Buttevant

Maybe this is why the road is so lowly prioritised? Compare with 20,000 north of Claregalway for instance.

If i was a higher up who knew nothing about either area, Id be putting the money towards the most benefactors (as they have).

Inter-Urbans need priority of course, but the numbers dont lie

It's so lowly priortised because it's the most expensive project left to be build. They can do the M11 upgrades, Newlands Cross, M17/18 and the New Ross bypass for a similar cost to building the M20.

Also while I obviously don't have precise numbers, I know a lot of people who travel from Limerick to Cork via Mitchelstown and the M8. Anything to avoid Charleville and Buttevant. A motorway would have higher AADT as people wouldn't be avoiding these towns.

Vanquished

veryangryman wrote: »

Just looking at NRA traffic figures for existing N20

https://www.nratrafficdata.ie/c2/gmapbasic.asp?sgid=ZvyVmXU8jBt9PJE$c7UXt6

11,000 through Charleville
15,000 through Buttevant

Maybe this is why the road is so lowly prioritised? Compare with 20,000 north of Claregalway for instance.

If i was a higher up who knew nothing about either area, Id be putting the money towards the most benefactors (as they have).

Inter-Urbans need priority of course, but the numbers dont lie

By the same measure the AADT north of Crusheen on the M18 is only 9,000. At Barefield just north of Ennis it's 11,000.

The reason for the lack of progress on the M20 is the cost of the project and the fact that planning of the scheme commenced pretty late in the day. The preferred route was only identified in 2009!

If it has any hope of going ahead in the foreseeable future it needs to be split up in to smaller segments. The most pressing section is south of Croom to Mallow.

munchkin_utd

Vanquished wrote: »

By the same measure the AADT north of Crusheen on the M18 is only 9,000. At Barefield just north of Ennis it's 11,000.

The reason for the lack of progress on the M20 is the cost of the project and the fact that planning of the scheme commenced pretty late in the day. The preferred route was only identified in 2009!

If it has any hope of going ahead in the foreseeable future it needs to be split up in to smaller segments. The most pressing section is south of Croom to Mallow.

if they came up with the sensible idea of making that less busy section just a 2+2 then it'd be somewhat more affordable too.

AugustusMinimus

munchkin_utd wrote: »

if they came up with the sensible idea of making that less busy section just a 2+2 then it'd be somewhat more affordable too.

Let's just do the whole thing correctly from the start instead of going down the route of half arsed measures for saving pennies.

irishfeen

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Let's just do the whole thing correctly from the start instead of going down the route of half arsed measures for saving pennies.

Very much this .. The very last thing we want is a mess made of it. Do it once and do it right or don't do it at all.

Feed Up

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Let's just do the whole thing correctly from the start instead of going down the route of half arsed measures for saving pennies.

Agree 100%.

No disrespect to, or to belittle, the families, relatives and friends of any person killed on our roads, but would a campaign similar to the white crosses of the N4 in Sligo and hounding the politicians get this project started.

Vanquished

Route consistency should be a priority along this corridor which ultimately links the three largest urban areas outside of Dublin.

Future proofing the route is prudent also. Something that happens all too rarely in this country. Except funnily enough in the case of the interurban motorway network.

marno21

Reported on Newstalk syndicated news tonight but can't find much about it online

http://www.live95fm.ie/news/fresh-hopes-for-limerick-cork-motorway/20613

Mc Love

When an accident occurs on the N20 it's a nightmare for motorists, having to divert through small hick towns and an inferior road network, sometimes with only room for a truck to drive on.

It really needs to be prioritised.

zulutango

veryangryman wrote: »

Just looking at NRA traffic figures for existing N20

https://www.nratrafficdata.ie/c2/gmapbasic.asp?sgid=ZvyVmXU8jBt9PJE$c7UXt6

11,000 through Charleville
15,000 through Buttevant

Maybe this is why the road is so lowly prioritised? Compare with 20,000 north of Claregalway for instance.

If i was a higher up who knew nothing about either area, Id be putting the money towards the most benefactors (as they have).

Inter-Urbans need priority of course, but the numbers dont lie

You could also argue that so few are using the road because it is so bloody impassable.

Personally, I avoid trips to Cork from Limerick as much as possible because the road is a nightmare. I'm sure there are many thousands of people in both cities who fall into this category. The justification for improving a road or building a motorway should never be based solely on the numbers using the existing road.

Deedsie

zulutango wrote: »

You could also argue that so few are using the road because it is so bloody impassable.

Personally, I avoid trips to Cork from Limerick as much as possible because the road is a nightmare. I'm sure there are many thousands of people in both cities who fall into this category. The justification for improving a road or building a motorway should never be based solely on the numbers using the existing road.

Ya, I agree with this, a lot of people from North Tipperary drive to Thurles and use the M8 to Cork instead of M7 > M20 > N20 to Cork. I would definitely go via Limerick if the M20 was an option.

cjpm

Side road junctions being surveyed again today between Mallow and Rathduff when I passed by....

Missyelliot2

I've never tried to get to Limerick via Mitchelstown- solely due to an abysmal sense of direction, but I hate the 'main' Cork-Limerick road- it is dangerous and horrible to drive.
But, it seems as is getting from Cork to Belfast without a traffic light is the priority!

lordhaha

I think the cost in lives not euros should be considered here!!!

sonnyblack

Missyelliot2 wrote: »

I've never tried to get to Limerick via Mitchelstown- solely due to an abysmal sense of direction, but I hate the 'main' Cork-Limerick road- it is dangerous and horrible to drive.
But, it seems as is getting from Cork to Belfast without a traffic light is the priority!

It's quite straightforward really. Once you take the jnuction off the M8 for mitchelstown, there is a link road around mitchelstown and you take the first exit for ballylanders at a roundabout on the other side of town. Straight run to the N24 for a few miles and drop down onto the M7 into Limerick. I use it all the time and gave up on the M20 years ago. No investment there since the Croom bypass in 2001. Pathetic, and more importantly costing more and more lives in its present condition.
I'd say that the bypass road around that new Dairygold factory in Macroom will be the only thing built in the short term. how on earth did the road get left so far behind in the boom.

Jhcx

Tbh the ex lived in mitchelstown. I find it bit of an awkward drive out of the way to go to Cork city. maybe it's because I was coming from ennis but then again to get to Cork in general is a pain no decent roads

AugustusMinimus

Be interesting what the 2023 World Cup bid could do for this project.

I have no doubt that the lack of motorway between the 3rd and 4th cities on the island could have a very negative effect on the bid. Potentially maybe for a fast build in the event of a bid win announcement in 2017.

Worse that this though is the potentially for a half arsed rush job in the event of a bid win. I'm thinking an awful online dual carriageway build.

irishfeen

This weeks Corkman saying the proposed realignment of the main Annabella roundabout on the N20 in Mallow (needed due to Dairygold's expansion) has been given the go ahead by Cork County Council - they saying it will go to tender in the next few weeks and works are expected to begin in March or April... I pass through that roundabout every morning and evening - its going to be absolute chaos

Jhcx

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Be interesting what the 2023 World Cup bid could do for this project.

I have no doubt that the lack of motorway between the 3rd and 4th cities on the island could have a very negative effect on the bid. Potentially maybe for a fast build in the event of a bid win announcement in 2017.

Worse that this though is the potentially for a half arsed rush job in the event of a bid win. I'm thinking an awful online dual carriageway build.

Would a dual carriageway way be bad? Presuming if it was a quick build they wouldn't be using the same tactic of building it to motorway standard and then just applying for an upgrade?

Mc Love

Jhcx wrote: »

Would a dual carriageway way be bad? Presuming if it was a quick build they wouldn't be using the same tactic of building it to motorway standard and then just applying for an upgrade?

A dual carriage way would be a massive improvement