Losty Dublin wrote: » The ref was incorrect in his call as the ball must be played dead for the game to end. Law 6.8.9 covers such a scenario. Mind you, unless it was a tight game with a score in it then I wouldn't be too worried about it finishing up like this.
Tim Robbins wrote: » I think the ref could have been technically correct: Law 5.7(e) If time expires and the ball is not dead, or an awarded scrum or lineout has not been completed, the referee allows play to continue until the next time that the ball becomes dead. The ball becomes dead when the referee would have awarded a scrum, lineout, an option to the non-infringing team, drop out or after a conversion or successful penalty kick at goal. If a scrum has to be reset, the scrum has not been completed. If time expires and a mark, free kick or penalty kick is then awarded, the referee allows play to continue. ...
Law 5.7(e) If time expires and the ball is not dead, or an awarded scrum or lineout has not been completed, the referee allows play to continue until the next time that the ball becomes dead. The ball becomes dead when the referee would have awarded a scrum, lineout, an option to the non-infringing team, drop out or after a conversion or successful penalty kick at goal. If a scrum has to be reset, the scrum has not been completed. If time expires and a mark, free kick or penalty kick is then awarded, the referee allows play to continue.
locum-motion wrote: » As far as I can see, there is no Law 6.8.9. Law 6 is divided into A, B, and C. The further subdivisions are numbered also. Have a look.http://www.irblaws.com/index.php?law=6 As well as quoting an apparently non-existent law, you've also directly contradicted the law that was quoted (by Tim Robbins). Have a look at the bit I've bolded:
durkadurka wrote: » Munster Ulster game last week. Munster had the restart with a two point lead. The click had ticked over the 80. Ref informed Munster outhalf that he couldn't kick the restart into touch or couldn't kick it dead. When did that rule come in? I remember a Wales Scotland game s few years ago where Scotland blew a lead in similar circumstances because they wouldn't kick it into touch, but I don't remember any suggestion that they couldn't kick for touch.
awec wrote: » I am not sure of the exact rule, but it's the same thing that happened to Stephen Myler a few seasons ago in the Premiership final in the incident that led to the red card for Hartley ruling him out of the Lions tour. Wayne Barnes told him he couldn't kick it out on the full. He misheard and thought he could and did so, and then Barnes awarded a scrum to Leicester from where he kicked it out (it was a 22 drop out I think in that case).
Losty Dublin wrote: » Law 6 A 9, even. My tired brain, apologies
If the referee stops play because a player has been injured, and there has been no infringement and the ball has not been made dead, play restarts with a scrum. The team last in possession throws in the ball. If neither team was in possession, the attacking team throws in the ball.
(e) If time expires and the ball is not dead, or an awarded scrum or lineout has not been completed, the referee allows play to continue until the next time that the ball becomes dead. The ball becomes dead when the referee would have awarded a scrum, lineout, an option to the non-infringing team, drop out or after a conversion or successful penalty kick at goal. If a scrum has to be reset, the scrum has not been completed. If time expires and a mark, free kick or penalty kick is then awarded, the referee allows play to continue.
locum-motion wrote: » OK, then. Law 6.A.9 The referee and injury: But that relates to the referee stopping play for injury during the 40 minutes of the half, not at the end of it. In the specific case of the 40- or 80-minutes having expired, it is trumped by Law 5.7 Other time regulations: Note that it says "The ball becomes dead when the referee would have awarded a scrum..." Under 6.A.9, the ref would have awarded a scrum to restart after the injury. Therefore the ball is now dead, and the half/match is over.
Losty Dublin wrote: » The game continues until the players and not the referee render the ball dead (score, out of play, knock on etc) after time is up. Law 6.A.9 allows a referee to stop a game if an injury warrants it. As no infringement happened the ball is not dead and a scrum is called to restart the game.
locum-motion wrote: » I'm not sure how many times this Law is going to need to be quoted to you: "The ball becomes dead when the referee would have awarded a scrum..." The Laws DO NOT say what you have twice asserted that they do, namely that it has to be a player that makes the ball dead.
Losty Dublin wrote: » It would be wise if we quoted this section law fully as it reveals a bit more... "If time expires and the ball is not dead, or an awarded scrum or lineout has not been completed, the referee allows play to continue until the next time that the ball becomes dead. The ball becomes dead when the referee would have awarded a scrum, lineout, an option to the non-infringing team, drop out or after a conversion or successful penalty kick at goal. " Our friend 6.A.9 says... "If the referee stops play because a player has been injured, and there has been no infringement and the ball has not been made dead, play restarts with a scrum. The team last in possession throws in the ball. If neither team was in possession, the attacking team throws in the ball." The latter is pretty clear in saying what happens when the ball is not played dead.
locum-motion wrote: » You keep using the words 'played dead'. Care to show me where they appear in the laws? I repeat - We are talking about the very specific case of what happens when there's been an injury after the 40- or 80-minutes has elapsed: a. Play continues until the ball "becomes dead". (5.7, first sentence) b. How the ball "becomes dead" is clearly defined: It "becomes dead when the referee would have awarded a scrum,.." (5.7, second sentence) c. Your friend 6.A.9 says "If the referee stops play because a player has been injured, and there has been no infringement and the ball has not been made dead, play restarts with a scrum." d. Boom! That's it. There was a stoppage (without an infringement having occurred, and without the ball leaving the pitch or being otherwise 'made dead' by the action of a player) and if the 40- or 80-minutes hadn't elapsed play would have restarted by the awarding of a scrum. Then the second sentence of 5.7 kicks in, and the ball has become dead. Play then stops, under the first sentence.
Losty Dublin wrote: » For the last time 6.A.9 specifically covers the scenario of stopping and restarting the game in the event of an injury where no other stoppage has taken place. It has no bearing at all on Law 5 which concerns with time and timing of the game.
shoutman wrote: » I think it's fairly rational that the match shouldn't end because the ref has stopped the game due to a suspected head injury. If this was allowed surely you'd have players on the winning side going down with suspected head injuries as soon as the game goes into last play territory...
.ak wrote: » Hrmm... I suppose it is? I've seen it done plenty of times but never seen anyone pinged for it. Much the same way as you may try to dislodge the defender or clear them out if it goes to ground.
stephen_n wrote: » I did get pinged for it a few weeks back, didn't know you couldn't do it, obviously no point questioning the decision at the time though.
sydthebeat wrote: » If its a maul and the defender is on your Side, Is he not fair game for you to rip out of the maul? Happens all the time
stephen_n wrote: » Number 8 broke off the scrum, their 7 caught him and wrapped him up, I was the next man in and got my arm inside his arm and pulled it away, hoping our 8 would use the freedom to drop to the deck, other players arrived forming a maul, I got penalized I assume for pulling him out of the maul as it formed, didn't hear the ref calling for me to stop what I was doing, which wasn't actually trying to get him out of the maul, just stopping him choking the ball.
Penalties can also be given for attempting to drag players out of the maul.However this can be allowed if players are legitimately dragging out members of the opposition who have ended up on the wrong side
sydthebeat wrote: » yeah im not sure about what you were pinged for, did the ref tell you?http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/rules_and_equipment/4204094.stm this above was what i was referring to.......
matthew8 wrote: » In Sale-Exeter tonight an Exeter player knocked the ball on over Sale's dead ball line and as is the rule Wayne Barnes gave a 5 metre scrum rather than calling it advantage and then advantage over for a 22 drop out. A Sale player questioned the call and Barnes said it's a silly rule but it's the rule. Does anyone know the reason for this rule?
Max Headroom wrote: » Humour me....:o.... Rugby match...Team A and team B A player from A kicks the ball into team B half/sideline.. two players A and B run after the ball... It bounces infield and goes over the line into touch.......Lineout to B.. Player B runs to collect the ball, picks it up and runs back to where the ball went dead..at this stage player A has run past the spot but is still infield.. Question...If player B throws the ball to player A and he catches (maybe a natural reaction) the ball...is he entitled to run and score a try if possible....or...is he off-side and as such gives away a penalty to the B team....
finatron wrote: » It's rugby law's not rules
