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Laurent Benezech - "Doping in Rugby as bad as cycling" [MOD WARNING POST #1]

Pisco Sour

http://www.sportlive.co.za/rugby/morerugby/2013/04/06/doping-in-rugby-as-bad-as-cycling-says-ex-hooker

Serious claims.

MOD WARNING:
No speculation on specific players doping/juicing/etc.

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Cyber Ghost

Doesn't surprise me at all.

The size of the ****ers.

Giruilla

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Sure that's a great reason not to question things .....:rolleyes:

Of course it's a reason to question things, where did I say it wasn't.

The thing is it's an endemic problem among any sports with significant money involved, and Kimmage should know this.. so I don't get why he's pussyfooting around the issue in rugby which everyone already know's is there.

I'm beginning to feel any sportspeople in a sport currently suffering from lax testing should feel entitled to juice.

Slideshowbob

Giruilla wrote: »

Wonder why rugby is in Kimmages crosshairs now..

Everyone knows the sport is riddled with roid abuse and has been for years.. but then again so is tennis, golf, swimming and athletics.
You don't dope you won't cope.

Sure that's a great reason not to question things .....:rolleyes:

Seriously though, wouldn't it be great if all sports were cleaned up to the point that kids coming through won't have to make unethical and potentially unhealthy choices.

Apart from that, taking PEDs is very unfair on those who decide not to cheat

Giruilla

Wonder why rugby is in Kimmages crosshairs now..

Everyone knows the sport is riddled with roid abuse and has been for years.. but then again so is tennis, golf, swimming and athletics.
You don't dope you won't cope.

Sangre

The fact that there have been so few players caught suggests to me that this is actually a widespread problem (rather than the reverse) and the authorities aren't massively pushed to clamp down on it.

[Deleted User]

durkadurka wrote: »

Well ROG has decided to wade in

@RonanOGara10: Can't sleep after reading @PaulKimmage article ... V interesting .. Maybe there's another reason why RWC2007 went the way it did...

to be fair i do remember (and i believe it was widely commented on) that players got wayyyyyy bigger in a relatively short space of time before that world cup but it was pretty much across the board as a matter of fact i think old hooky was saying the irish player where after getting to big

ionadnapóca

Chiliboy Ralepelle anybody?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-1351317/Chiliboy-Ralepelle-Bjorn-Basson-exonerated-drugs-charges.html

And again!
http://www.espn.co.uk/scrum/rugby/story/229185.html

there is of course banned PED's drugs been taken. I just hope its not as widespread as the cycling.

Fireball07

Unlesss he means that it disimproved Ireland's performance, I don't think you could blame that on Ireland's results... even if all the other teams were doping like crazy, we were really bad in the things we did.

CatFromHue

It's almost as if ROG had some sort of dislike of the Argies.....:D

durkadurka

Perhaps he's pointing the finger at the French or Argentina.

From an Irish pov both his form and Ireland's form stank before we played those teams .

I think he wouldn't have tweeted s comment worded like that if he was suggesting that it was related to Irish players

barneystinson

CatFromHue wrote: »

What does that mean?

Is he talking about Ireland or the other teams?

Well if he's talking about Ireland, the drugs didnt exactly ENHANCE the performance much, did they :rolleyes:

Frankie Lee

Camborde was involved with Argentina and numerous French players.

CatFromHue

durkadurka wrote: »

Well ROG has decided to wade in

@RonanOGara10: Can't sleep after reading @PaulKimmage article ... V interesting .. Maybe there's another reason why RWC2007 went the way it did...

What does that mean?

Is he talking about Ireland or the other teams?

Frankie Lee

There is "le dossier de presse" that Kimmage referred to in relation to the disgraced Alain Camborde. There is an obvious question mark over the players and teams mentioned although nothing is proven.

durkadurka

Well ROG has decided to wade in

@RonanOGara10: Can't sleep after reading @PaulKimmage article ... V interesting .. Maybe there's another reason why RWC2007 went the way it did...

aimee1

.ak wrote: »

Or they were all clean?

I find that hard to believe to be honest. The players are getting too big and I dont believe it is all down to hard work in the gym. 200 tests out of about 600 players to not get one positive test to me looks suspicious. Much smaller fields in olympics athletics and they get much higher positive results. In my mind it doesnt stack up.

Befor the 2007 WC I watched a warm up game. It was when all kit suppliers went for the much tighter fit jersies and it was noticeable how bulky certain players had gotten even since the end of the previous season, even allowing for the jersey fit.

aimee1

.ak wrote: »

Or they were all clean?

CatFromHue

Here is the Kenyan coach's view on the drugs issue they faced

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,,3551_9529875,00.html

There's been a few rumours, or more as Berbezier said it actually happened, on drug taking in France in the 70's and 80's though

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/france/2996309/Team-doctor-adds-to-French-rugby-drugs-controversy.html

Fireball07

Personally, I would be very surprised if there wasn't some amount of doping within the professional game, even here in Ireland. I don't know how widespread it may be, hopefully it's not prevalent (or hopefully it's completely absent) but I'd be surprised if there wasn't some element of it among some top professionals.

.ak

aimee1 wrote: »

Maybe, but how stringent is the testing in rugby. Neil Francis wrote a few years ago after the last WC that not a single test came back positive. Out of 48 games, if 2 players were tested from each team thats nearly 200 tests.

If Franno is right about the number of tests, Given the size of players I find it hard to believe that there isnt a blind eye mentality at some level or else the testing isnt up to scratch

Or they were all clean?

Zzippy

Now that there is big money in the game, the temptation, and the rewards, are too great for many players not to try something, even if it's an 8-week course of steroids, as mentioned in the article, and staying clean thereafter - much of the gain is maintained even after the drugs are eliminated. People are naive if they think this isn't happening in Ireland too. I'd like to see a lot more testing going on, with players introduced to it from an early age, and know that it's going to be an ongoing thing throughout their careers, and a lot more frequent than it is now.

ThisRegard

.ak wrote: »

Former amateur player adds 2+2 and gets 5.

This has been a large problem with cycling. I'm not saying this is your attitude but people didn't want to see what was there in front of them, and many of the early whistle blowers in cycling were ones that didn't make it because they didn't get with the programme. People wrote them off as having sour grapes, Kimmage being one such person to experience this.

Rugby now has a remarkably similar reflection to this.

Frankie Lee

I was going to bump this thread earlier but chickened out. Kimmage is doing good work once again, hopefully it leads to something positive.

Ressiot had good news and bad; the good was that he knew a lot and was prepared to help; the bad was that the 'Omerta' in rugby was worse than anything he had experienced in cycling.

CatFromHue

The 20-25% injury rate of a pro rugby squad is not a new statistic, it's actually been around since the game went pro I think, it's just caught the media attention now.

I agree with .ak in the reasoning of the article and I'm kinda surprised Kimmage hasn't started to talk about the recent WADA numbers which indicated rugby may have a problem.

aimee1

.ak wrote: »

I don't want to come across wrong here, but... It reads just like this:

Amateur player comes across doping in early years of professional rugby.

Years later former amateur player sees how big the the players are now these days.

Former amateur player adds 2+2 and gets 5.

Maybe, but how stringent is the testing in rugby. Neil Francis wrote a few years ago after the last WC that not a single test came back positive. Out of 48 games, if 2 players were tested from each team thats nearly 200 tests.

If Franno is right about the number of tests, Given the size of players I find it hard to believe that there isnt a blind eye mentality at some level or else the testing isnt up to scratch

.ak

Slideshowbob wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/paul-kimmage-rugby-has-to-face-up-to-its-growing-pains-30766512.html

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/other-rugby/dangerous-obsession-with-size-creates-bigger-need-for-answers-30785080.html

..... and we are all still wondering why PK took a step back from BOD's book????

I don't want to come across wrong here, but... It reads just like this:

Amateur player comes across doping in early years of professional rugby.

Years later former amateur player sees how big the the players are now these days.

Former amateur player adds 2+2 and gets 5.

aimee1

given the sheer size of players and given the current injury percentage of 20-25% of any club squad being injured at any particular time, I would be stunned if there isnt some fairly high level of illegal drug use. If you go to elverys in town you will see supplements stands with leinster players images on the stand they are displayed on.

I know there are supplements which are not banned, but in professional sport there will always be cheats who go beyond what is legal

Bloodgate in 2009 showed the lengths people will go to in order to get an advantage, and that was done in a stadium with 15000 people present.

Slideshowbob

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/paul-kimmage-rugby-has-to-face-up-to-its-growing-pains-30766512.html

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/other-rugby/dangerous-obsession-with-size-creates-bigger-need-for-answers-30785080.html

..... and we are all still wondering why PK took a step back from BOD's book????

Sinbad_NI

What’s to say there's isn't another, as yet, undetectable drug out there that is more suited to Rugby.
PED's didn't start and won't end at EPO.

For me the farce surrounding cycling at the moment will dilute my enthusiasm for most sports for good while.
The old moto of “innocent until proved guilty” is now long gone from my head.

desertcircus

Not sure if I'm right, but I think I remember from reading David Millar's autobiography that EPO is catabolic in nature, so runs a high risk of reducing muscle mass. If that is the case, it would make EPO use in rugby a pretty bad idea, as you'd trade a marginal speed advantage in the last twenty minutes of four or five games a year for a significant problem with maintaining muscle mass. Steroid use would probably be more likely, as rugby isn't an endurance sport and the vast majority of EPO cases have come in endurance sports.