kandoola wrote: » Feel free to point out where ANY gay nurses are getting fired for being gay and where ANY child will not being allowed to go to school based on their religion. If we can keep the examples to this century that would be good too. And please post example of it actually happening instead of it could happen. Sure they good become astronauts and walk on the moon some day too, but its as unlikely. And the people in those articles problems stem from bigotry, not religion. That can happen in any workplace / town / school in the world. Thats a problem of society. They arent going to be fired for being gay. But to go back to the topic. Im sure a cross on a hill isnt going to hurt gay nurses or teacher or even children going to school either.
Cabaal wrote: » Ok so, but clearly these people identify themselves as Catholic on the census... Not Christian. .
kandoola wrote: » My child is in a state funded school. There was no problem at all. .
kandoola wrote: » Feel free to point out where ANY gay nurses are getting fired for being gay and where ANY child will not being allowed to go to school based on their religion. .
Dades wrote: » Because the church in this country does not.
Dades wrote: » When the state ends forced indoctrination in our schools I'll happily hang up my atheist-online hat and get on with something else.
Dades wrote: » Do you think it's right that non-believers have to pretend to be catholic to get into schools?
J Mysterio wrote: » The church does live and let live. They are hardly knocking on your doors like Jehovah's Witnesses or forcibly converting. Just because they are visible does not mean they are intolerant. Anyway, the church's message is about love and respect, horrific actions in the past by members of the church does not change that. Come on, be honest with yourself - 'forced indoctrination'? That's just childish. There has been real indoctrination in the past i.e. Hitler Jugend and there is real.indoctrination now with groups like IS/ ISIS/ ISIL. To claim that there is forced indoctrination in our schools is laughable. Choose another school if you feel your kid cant just ignore it. I went to a Catholic primary school and, aside from Communion time, there was very little catholic about it. I don't believe they do have to. Have your kids go to another school if it keeps you awake at night. Most 'Catholic schools' are only religious in name these days. They certainly aren't like the old christian schools were the local 'brothers' acted like tyrants.
J Mysterio wrote: » The church does live and let live. They are hardly knocking on your doors like Jehovah's Witnesses or forcibly converting. Just because they are visible does not mean they are intolerant. Anyway, the church's message is about love and respect, horrific actions in the past by members of the church does not change that.
J Mysterio wrote: » Come on, be honest with yourself - 'forced indoctrination'? That's just childish. There has been real indoctrination in the past i.e. Hitler Jugend and there is real.indoctrination now with groups like IS/ ISIS/ ISIL. To claim that there is forced indoctrination in our schools is laughable. Choose another school if you feel your kid cant just ignore it. I went to a Catholic primary school and, aside from Communion time, there was very little catholic about it. I don't believe they do have to. Have your kids go to another school if it keeps you awake at night. Most 'Catholic schools' are only religious in name these days. They certainly aren't like the old christian schools were the local 'brothers' acted like tyrants.
Indoctrination is the process of inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or a professional methodology (see doctrine).[1] It is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned.[2] As such the term may be used pejoratively, often in the context of political opinions, theology, religious dogma or anti-religious convictions. The term is closely linked to socialization; in common discourse, indoctrination is often associated with negative connotations, while socialization refers to cultural or educational learning.
Pro Hoc Vice wrote: » So you believe it is ok to have a law that's tells a number of people in society that they can not be afforded the protection of the state in equality matters. So you would support a law that tells a person you are inferior as long as we don't act on that law. It's not that any person is treated badly but that the organs of state say it's legal to do so. If the law is never used why do we have it, just remove it problem solved.
Pro Hoc Vice wrote: » But on the topic I think it was mindless vandalisim to knock it down and I'm not so happy with it being put up, not because it's a cross but because it has little merit as a piece of sculpture. I would be horrified if someone knocked down a Celtic cross but that metal monstroticity well it's not very tasteful but then can't accuse the people who put it up of having much taste.
eviltwin wrote: » Do you have any idea how difficult it is to find alternatives to a Catholic education?
shruikan2553 wrote: » They are quite fond of making sure everyones version of marriage is the Christian version with the law backing them up. Hardly live and let live. Indoctrination is still indoctrination, just because some places were worse doesnt mean it doesnt exist.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indoctrination
J Mysterio wrote: » I do appreciate your point. I would like to.see.more secular schools........
J Mysterio wrote: » You call it indoctrination in Irish schools, I do not.
looksee wrote: » I don't think the whole Catholic/Christian/Atheist argument matters here. What matters is that a small group of people took it on themselves to remove a structure on private land just because they wanted to impose their views on other people. I think it is quite right to replace it, or the vandals have established that they can impose whatever they want by force.
J Mysterio wrote: » You are using your wider argument to nitpick at the minutiae. The Pope has said that he thinks gays will go to heaven etc. They are modernising, /QUOTE] Have you any sense of how funny it is to see someone talking about heaven as if it was real?
Pherekydes wrote: » Children are learning the church doctrine. Ergo, it is indocrination.
Cantremember wrote: » J Mysterio wrote: » You are using your wider argument to nitpick at the minutiae. The Pope has said that he thinks gays will go to heaven etc. They are modernising, Have you any sense of how funny it is to see someone talking about heaven as if it was real?
J Mysterio wrote: » You are using your wider argument to nitpick at the minutiae. The Pope has said that he thinks gays will go to heaven etc. They are modernising,
J Mysterio wrote: » The church does live and let live. They are hardly knocking on your doors like Jehovah's Witnesses or forcibly converting. Just because they are visible does not mean they are intolerant.
J Mysterio wrote: » I do appreciate your point. I would like to.see.more secular schools but just because I feel that way does not give me licence to be intolerant to others, who are the vast majority.
J Mysterio wrote: » You are using your wider argument to nitpick at the minutiae. The Pope has said that he thinks gays will go to heaven etc. They are modernising, but very slowly. lol, so respecting monuments only applies if you think they are very nice aesthetically. Never mind other people.
Cabaal wrote: » You know what, you're right. The church is all about peace, love and acceptance. Thats why they have no problem with marriage equality and they are currently making thousands of women into priests.... Oh wait... The reality is the church is happy to see women as inferior to men, and they've been against any equality granted to gay and lesbians people of the decades. Not to mention they wanted condoms banned in ireland, didn't matter if you were Catholic or not, they didn't want you getting them. Live and let live my arse
eviltwin wrote: » How is wanting an education free of religion being intolerant?
J Mysterio wrote: » Condoms are no longer an issue and I have just pointed out the church are beginning to modernise in relation to gay people. I believe the pope said something positive in relation to women priests too but not sure on the particulars. Its obvious the church needs to modernise and it is still.archaic in many ways. Current pope does seem like a nice chap though. Either way, im not here to defend the church and will desist from that now -.my point is that it seems crazy for atheists to be so vindictive and militant.
riffmongous wrote: » I thought this was a thread about Corrán Tuathail?
Pro Hoc Vice wrote: » How do we know it's arheists who did this.
J Mysterio wrote: » Condoms are no longer an issue and I have just pointed out the church are beginning to modernise in relation to gay people. .
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