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Cross on summit of Carrauntoohil cut down with angle grinder (Warning: contains TLAs)

Dave!

So which one of yiz was it?

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lazygal

katydid wrote: »

What would be really really nice would be if some of the people who are applauding this vandalism would think for a moment about where supporting wanton vandalism leads to...

Which is where, exactly? And is this wanton vandalism? Is erecting an unnatural object in an area of natural beauty not wanton vandalism?

katydid

swampgas wrote: »

You know, it would be nice if just once some of the people who are so adamant that the cross should be there, and who are so quick to point out that it has broad support from the community, could find it in themselves to admit publically that maybe there are other Irish people who they share this island with who are not Catholic and who do not want a cross there, or even some people who are Catholic and still don't want a cross there. Tolerance for other views, never mind religions, does not seem to be evident. Which makes their stance (IMO) all the more objectionable.

There seems to be a siege mentality among some Catholics in Ireland, such that you'd think Cromwell was still running the place.

What would be really really nice would be if some of the people who are applauding this vandalism would think for a moment about where supporting wanton vandalism leads to...

swampgas

You know, it would be nice if just once some of the people who are so adamant that the cross should be there, and who are so quick to point out that it has broad support from the community, could find it in themselves to admit publically that maybe there are other Irish people who they share this island with who are not Catholic and who do not want a cross there, or even some people who are Catholic and still don't want a cross there. Tolerance for other views, never mind religions, does not seem to be evident. Which makes their stance (IMO) all the more objectionable.

There seems to be a siege mentality among some Catholics in Ireland, such that you'd think Cromwell was still running the place.

Bloodwing

magicbastarder wrote: »

it's not an insubstantial cross, but it's not particularly substantial either. i suspect someone who was in it purely for financial gain would have been able to benefit from far lower hanging fruit.

Very true, I was just putting another theory out there. Some of the individuals involved in metal theft would stun you with their stupidity though, so anything is possible.

magicbastarder

Bloodwing wrote: »

If I was a betting man my money would be on a group of criminals with a knowledge of the value of scrap metal who were perhaps disturbed or planned on returning to finish the job at a later point.

it's not an insubstantial cross, but it's not particularly substantial either. i suspect someone who was in it purely for financial gain would have been able to benefit from far lower hanging fruit.

Brian Shanahan

eviltwin wrote: »

Getting into heaven isn't much of a consolation when you are denied the right to marry your partner just because you are gay.

And the rcc refuses even that. To get into heaven as a gay person you have to abstain from any sexual activity, even so far as looking on at another gay person with lust.

All this talk from Bergoglio is nothing but mealy mouthed propoganda designed to detract from the fact that the church is, in fact, getting more conservative and intolerant not less. He is a PR shill, and frankly doesn't even mean a word he says, but as he can lie welll "sure tisn't it all grand?"

braddun

its back up

Bloodwing

Cabaal wrote: »

Nobody does, it could just as likely have been a pissed of Catholic, protestant, Muslim, scientology, Mormon etc

Maybe it's just a local who had an axe to grind with one of the land owners or the local priest. Who knows.

Could have also been metal fatigue

If I was a betting man my money would be on a group of criminals with a knowledge of the value of scrap metal who were perhaps disturbed or planned on returning to finish the job at a later point.

The theft of metal works of art is nothing new.

Brian Shanahan

kylith wrote: »

Thanks for that, as I said it was 1am when I posted that.

Not a bother. I wasn't disagreeing with the general thrust of your argument either, just cleaning up the reported statistics.

looksee

expectationlost wrote: »

you seem to have more information on this then the rest of us.

I do not understand this comment. Ok, maybe it was a large group, or an individual, either way it was still some one imposing their views on everyone else by vandalism.

Mech1

I read today that that cross / giant mickey, whatever you want, was erect again.

Cantremember

J Mysterio wrote: »

Yeah, imagine the pope doing that. Forget comedy central, tune to EWTN, hours of.laughs for you.

It's even funnier than that: I don't have to imagine him doing that, he does it in the real world! You're right about the religion channels...incredibly funny.

shruikan2553

J Mysterio wrote: »

You call it indoctrination in Irish schools, I do not.

In my school we were taught this is how it is, God is real and anyone who says otherwise was wrong. Catholicism is right and this is what we believe.

If we look at this we have the teaching of something while the person being taught isnt meant to question or critically examine it. If only we had a word to describe that.

whats newxt

Anyone want to donate a con saw to me i know of a few crosses near me that need taking down.

Cabaal

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

How do we know it's arheists who did this.

Nobody does, it could just as likely have been a pissed of Catholic, protestant, Muslim, scientology, Mormon etc

Maybe it's just a local who had an axe to grind with one of the land owners or the local priest. Who knows.

Could have also been metal fatigue

Cabaal

J Mysterio wrote: »

Condoms are no longer an issue and I have just pointed out the church are beginning to modernise in relation to gay people. .

Condoms are no longer an issue?
Tell that to the countless people who have died from aids in Africa due to the Catholic churches official stance against any condom use.

As for gay people, the church is still fully against marriage equality. Any softening shown in the popes words were forced by the change in world view towards gay people..

The church did not lead this change, they were forced into this change because the alternative option is to be a bigoted organisation... Which of course they still are anyway so go figure.

Turtwig

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

How do we know it's arheists who did this.

Faith. :pac:

J Mysterio

riffmongous wrote: »

I thought this was a thread about Corrán Tuathail?

It is but, as can be seen, the attitudes of many atheists to the destruction of the cross is a microcosm of the macro attitude towards the church - I think that is natural debate.

Pro Hoc Vice

J Mysterio wrote: »

Condoms are no longer an issue and I have just pointed out the church are beginning to modernise in relation to gay people. I believe the pope said something positive in relation to women priests too but not sure on the particulars.

Its obvious the church needs to modernise and it is still.archaic in many ways. Current pope does seem like a nice chap though.

Either way, im not here to defend the church and will desist from that now -.my point is that it seems crazy for atheists to be so vindictive and militant.

How do we know it's arheists who did this.

J Mysterio

eviltwin wrote: »

How is wanting an education free of religion being intolerant?

It doesnt. I was making a broader point in respect of the attitudes here to the destruction of the Carrantuohill cross.

[Deleted User]

I thought this was a thread about Corrán Tuathail?

J Mysterio

Cabaal wrote: »

You know what, you're right.

The church is all about peace, love and acceptance.

Thats why they have no problem with marriage equality and they are currently making thousands of women into priests.... Oh wait...

The reality is the church is happy to see women as inferior to men, and they've been against any equality granted to gay and lesbians people of the decades.

Not to mention they wanted condoms banned in ireland, didn't matter if you were Catholic or not, they didn't want you getting them.

Live and let live my arse

Condoms are no longer an issue and I have just pointed out the church are beginning to modernise in relation to gay people. I believe the pope said something positive in relation to women priests too but not sure on the particulars.

Its obvious the church needs to modernise and it is still.archaic in many ways. Current pope does seem like a nice chap though.

Either way, im not here to defend the church and will desist from that now -.my point is that it seems crazy for atheists to be so vindictive and militant.

eviltwin

J Mysterio wrote: »

You are using your wider argument to nitpick at the minutiae. The Pope has said that he thinks gays will go to heaven etc. They are modernising, but very slowly.

lol, so respecting monuments only applies if you think they are very nice aesthetically. Never mind other people.

Getting into heaven isn't much of a consolation when you are denied the right to marry your partner just because you are gay.

eviltwin

J Mysterio wrote: »

I do appreciate your point.

I would like to.see.more secular schools but just because I feel that way does not give me licence to be intolerant to others, who are the vast majority.

How is wanting an education free of religion being intolerant?

Cabaal

J Mysterio wrote: »

The church does live and let live. They are hardly knocking on your doors like Jehovah's Witnesses or forcibly converting. Just because they are visible does not mean they are intolerant.

You know what, you're right.

The church is all about peace, love and acceptance.

Thats why they have no problem with marriage equality and they are currently making thousands of women into priests.... Oh wait...

The reality is the church is happy to see women as inferior to men, and they've been against any equality granted to gay and lesbians people of the decades.

Not to mention they wanted condoms banned in ireland, didn't matter if you were Catholic or not, they didn't want you getting them.

Live and let live my arse

J Mysterio

Cantremember wrote: »

J Mysterio wrote: »

You are using your wider argument to nitpick at the minutiae. The Pope has said that he thinks gays will go to heaven etc. They are modernising,

Have you any sense of how funny it is to see someone talking about heaven as if it was real?

Yeah, imagine the pope doing that. Forget comedy central, tune to EWTN, hours of.laughs for you.

J Mysterio

Pherekydes wrote: »

Children are learning the church doctrine. Ergo, it is indocrination.

Haha. I see what you did there.

Cantremember

J Mysterio wrote: »

You are using your wider argument to nitpick at the minutiae. The Pope has said that he thinks gays will go to heaven etc. They are modernising, /QUOTE]

Have you any sense of how funny it is to see someone talking about heaven as if it was real?

expectationlost

looksee wrote: »

I don't think the whole Catholic/Christian/Atheist argument matters here. What matters is that a small group of people took it on themselves to remove a structure on private land just because they wanted to impose their views on other people. I think it is quite right to replace it, or the vandals have established that they can impose whatever they want by force.

you seem to have more information on this then the rest of us.

Pherekydes

J Mysterio wrote: »

You call it indoctrination in Irish schools, I do not.

Children are learning the church doctrine. Ergo, it is indocrination.