jank wrote: » Are most people here are forgetting that this is private land. If we are going down the road of cleaning public spaces of religious icons, then surely we have to start with the oldest, that being newgrange. Then we can move onto dolmens and fairy rings. Finally, stage 3 of this cultural revolution will involve cutting down any cross or crucifix that disturbs the sentiments of the easily offended. We will then be all free, secular and equal together, Kumbaya My Lord biscuit...
jank wrote: » Are most people here are forgetting that this is private land. If we are going down the road of cleaning public spaces of religious icons, then surely we have to start with the oldest, that being newgrange.
PopePalpatine wrote: » I still can't believe someone managed to take an angle grinder all the way up Carrauntoohil...but I'm less surprised Google Chrome's spellchecker won't recognise it as a word. :pac:
magicbastarder wrote: » well, someone else got a large cross all the way up there; an angle grinder was probably easier by comparison. i'd be curious if this was an act of well planned vandalism for the sake of vandalism, or an act of well planned vandalism for the sake of making a point about ireland's relationship with a patriarchical belief system.
Peregrinus wrote: » Hate to inject a note of reality, but . . . While the obelisk in St Peter's square was arguably stolen, it was hardly stolen by Christians or by Christianity. It was originally erected by an unnamed Pharaoh at Heliopolis, about 2,400 BCE. The original purpose or signficance of this particular obelisk is not known, but Egyptian obelisks generally are thought to have been treated as personifications of the sun-god, and to have marked the entrances to temples. It was taken from Heliopolis around about the time of Christ on the orders of the Emperor Augustus - not a Christian - and reerected as the centrepiece of the Julian Forum at Alexandria. From there, it was taken to Rome in 37 CE on the orders of the Emperor Caligula - also not a Christian - and erected as an architectural feature at the centre of the Circus of Nero, which was a little to the south of where St Peter's Basilica now stands. The Circus became the site of numerous Christian martyrdoms. The tradition that says St. Peter was one of those martyred there is questionable, but the historicity of the martyrdoms generally, and their location, is not in any doubt. The Circus was abandoned in the second century, and over time the neighbouring cemetery spilled into the area, with tombs being erected among the ruins of the circus buildings. Part of the circus was incorporated into the first St Peter's Basilica when it was erected about two hundred years later, but the obelisk stayed where it was for another 1,200 years until the new St Peter's was built, when it was moved from the south side of the Basilica to the east front, to provide the focal point for the plaza. In so far as the oblelisk has acquired Christian signficance, it is as a "silent witness" to the martyrdom of Peter and the Roman Christian community. It is hardly fair to blame the Christians for this circumstance. Rome, in fact, has more Egyptian obelisks than any other city in the world, and indeed almost as many as the whole of Egypt today. But they were all brought there in pre-Christian times. Romans of the late republican period were fascinated by Egypt and all things Egyptian.
TheFarrier wrote: » Hacksaw would take forever to take that cross out though, even an angle grinder would probably require 3/4 discs to chew it's way through it. My first thought was a consaw, but the bit I struggle with is, we hear on the news regularly-ish about experienced climbers getting lost/stuck on carrauntoohill in broad daylight, so how in the name of jaysus did some vandal make his way up at night, with a consaw(or angle grinder), chop down a cross, and return down the mountain unscathed?? The mind boggles.
lazygal wrote: » My house is on private land, but I'd still need to get planning permission if I wanted to erect a giant biscuit or Hawaiian pizza made of steel to worship. Are you forgetting about planning permission?
shruikan2553 wrote: » People keep using this sort of thing as an example. They seem to have a self importance that makes them think that a cross has the same historical importance as the likes newgrange. A building with incredibly advanced engineering is equal to a steel cross.
Pherekydes wrote: » What religion does Newgrange represent? I like it. We should keep it. Especially at this time of year. It's proof for the 'Jesus-is-the-reason-for-the-season' crew that they are wrong. Midwinter has been celebrated in Ireland for five thousand years.
jank wrote: » The premise is the same. Religious iconography in public places is bad right, therefore we should get rid. Fair is fair right? Those damm fairy rings, ruining my right to be at peace!!
jank wrote: » No, I have no idea if planning permission was granted 30 years ago for this cross and if not then given the time frame involved usually means the statue of limitations has expired. This cross also replaced a wooden one that was there since the 50's.
shruikan2553 wrote: » If we were talking about tearing down churches you would have a point. Its a cross, a random cross.
PopePalpatine wrote: » I wonder, how many Gardaí have been assigned to investigating the 800 or so children's remains in that septic tank in Tuam?
robindch wrote: » BTW, try cut down on the "you guys" kind of stuff - let's try and leave slip a little cheery winterval spirit, eh?
Pherekydes wrote: » What religion does Newgrange represent?
Username32 wrote: » Who probably were involved in child sacrifice and spent their lives enslaving and killing each other while building heaps of rubble for no particular good reason.
robindch wrote: » I'm having a hard time distinguishing that from christianity, I must say.
seamus wrote: » Gardai arriving by helicopter to investigate who cut down a useless steel pole on private land. In so many ways, Father Ted was a documentary, not a comedy.
Username32 wrote: » It represents the culture of primitive pygmies who gawked at the Sun in awe. Who probably were involved in child sacrifice and spent their lives enslaving and killing each other while building heaps of rubble for no particular good reason. An utterly pointless mound of rubble that has no real cultural value and one that I personally find offensive.
Username32 wrote: » Or women?
Pherekydes wrote: » Primitive? At the winter solstice, the rays of the rising sun travel down a 19 metre shaft and illuminate the central chamber. Modern humans could probably manage this feat, but would it still work in five thousand years' time? It's a true wonder of human engineering. Mound of rubble? They may have been sun worshippers, but that makes an awful lot more sense than worshipping an imaginary deity, who'll send you to an imaginary punishment for all eternity if you don't worship it.
Pherekydes wrote: » Primitive? At the winter solstice, the rays of the rising sun travel down a 19 metre shaft and illuminate the central chamber. Modern humans could probably manage this feat, but would it still work in five thousand years' time?
Username32 wrote: » It represents the culture of primitive.... .
Cabaal wrote: » It seems the beauty of our countryside isn't enough for some people, they'd rather blight it with concrete and metal.
Username32 wrote: » one that I personally find offensive.
magicbastarder wrote: » well, there's a new wrinkle. someone who is offended by the existence of newgrange.
Pherekydes wrote: » They may have been sun worshippers, but that makes an awful lot more sense than worshipping an imaginary deity, who'll send you to an imaginary punishment for all eternity if you don't worship it.
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