rainbowtrout wrote: » Probably the same people who voted Yes for HRA. I know in my school the principal has submitted our names for CPD. Not something we signed up for individually. I imagine it's going on in other schools too. Also there are plenty of teachers who will roll over on JC Assessment. There was a discussion in my staffroom over break last week and one or two teachers commented in the vein of 'this strike action is such an annoyance and I'm losing a day's pay'. That's the bottom line to them, it's putting them out for a day and one day's pay in the year is what they care about most, not the avalanche of work coming their way if teacher marked assessment is pushed through. For perspective the teachers that made those comments are not on low hours, on low wages. They are on full hours, teaching for long enough.
2011abc wrote: » I KNOW Armelodie that a fair few younger teachers voted Yes for their 'year earlier CIDs' but seriously , considering the vast majority of teachers who were vehemently saying they would vote No (even including some who had previously voted Yes and took umbrage at being asked a third time ) can you unhesitatingly say youre confident our greatest opponents arent in Head Office rather than the staffroom ?The external independent overseers are generally from companies steeped in controversy despite being intended to create a veneer of trust .If I recall they had the votes counted VERY quickly/early on the infamous day in question .
Armelodie wrote: » Completely agree. the battle lines are being drawn in our staff-rooms (not in the media) and it could go either way. We have a few people who never bothered, now signing up to the union to join in the protest... and we have the usual few moaning about the one day's pay and losing teaching time (despite being at the top of the pay scale and voted yes in the last HR vote... just to get the annoyance over with).This will be won and lost... not on public opinion... but on the apathetic teacher's votes (or lack there-of!). And bare in mind that this will be managed the same way by the Dept.... keep getting another round of voting until we accept... and I bet it'll all come down to offering incentives by way of monetary bribes. Which would be a really sad day for the profession to say that teachers can abandon a principal for a few quid (and it'll be pittance by way of the workload and b*****ology that we'll have to endure.)
rainbowtrout wrote: » I dunno, I know several posters on this thread are like myself and correct for the SEC in the summer/ examine practicals orals etc. It's not something that many engage with in my school. I'm the only one who corrects in the summer, which is fair enough, people have other things to do. However, I have described my experiences (in general) of correction, and the necessity for the conference, the arguments over stupid answers, the need for external examiners for the practical subjects where teachers assess their own students and the shenanigans that goes on in some schools despite the fact that the external monitor is coming and I put it to some members of staff how fair they think it will be without any form of regulation or external monitoring, based on experiences of what it is like with all that monitoring in place...
seavill wrote: » The same people that are moaning about missing a days pay are the same that are giving out that the Union didn't fight for their future a few years back. They fail to see the irony in their actions and opinions. One day's pay is worth it compared to the next 40 years spending an extra what 50 hours a year easy correcting projects. That's over 2 weeks working for free. It may not technically be a cut in wages but in reality it is. Some people need to grow up and see the wood from the trees
Caiseoipe19 wrote: » Ah would you come down of your high horse. There will be teachers of all levels of experience grumbling about losing a days pay. I could make a nice generic statement implying that it's the teachers that are close to retirement that are grumbling about it because they wouldn't be around for the changes. But I won't, because it'd be complete and utter rubbish. Yes, some recently qualified teachers will grumble about losing a days pay. And yes, there will also be teachers nearing retirement grumbling for the reason above. And there will be plenty of teachers neither near the beginning nor end of their careers, that will grumble. The exact same way it was for people voting YES to HRA. Out of curiosity, how many out of the thousands of teachers that have qualified post-2011 have you heard grumbling? Or what evidence are you basing that statement on?
chambers_j wrote: » Has there been any guidance given for teachers who have yet to join a union? In college many new teachers are being encouraged not to join a Union until they are settled in a school and along with other teachers who have never joined a Union. There seems to be no information on whether there is a set protocol for striking or crossing the picket line to work. I am aware that non teaching staff are required to open the school and be in for the duration of their working day but what about teachers who support the strike but are not in ASTI or TUI, can anyone tell me whether we have the right to join the strike or have to be on school property for the duration of the day. Thanks
Mrwhite1970 wrote: » I dont have the authors name to hand on the above book-will dig it out later. Please no longer buy ' research shows'-ask' what research by whom?' and be ready to counter it.
acequion wrote: » Ya but how could they possibly get away with that? What you are suggesting is blatant corruption, which is surely a criminal offence.
2011abc wrote: » It would/could never happen in Ireland !
amacca wrote: » Some other problems Selective quoting of research findings Research shows that X works………….if contact time is under certain value /administrative burden is below certain value /reasonable class sizes are enforced /proper resources provided /disciplinary structure thats workable in place / responsibilities carry the same importance in legislation as "rights" / proper ICT/ technical support is provided etc etc A lot of the time we only get the Research shows that X works with no reference to the context the research was carried out in or if it is truly applicable to LCA 2 with no interest in anything except their phones and fighting and no real way to enforce any discipline…..Theres a real reductionist feel to whats going on, probably because its got nothing to do with education and everything to do with spending and populism. Lots of things need to be introduced into the debate…..we have much higher contact hours, we have larger class sizes….maintaining discipline is much more difficult in our system imo (there are no inbuilt consequences for disrupting teachers and others in our system that don't rely on huge amounts of teacher/management time and effort and mountains of evidence gathering with the knowledge that the law will protect the wrongdoer anyway even if you are in the right etc - bit like the guards arresting people with 80+ previous convictions…really what is the fcuking point) - e.g. in some countries you are required to redo an entire academic year if you fall below a certain standard and the standard is not low (there are some exceptions for genuine learning difficulties, behavioural disorders - thats quite the incentive to not act like a tool every class you are in - eases the disciplinary burden significantly as very few want to spend the extra time in school not earning money) our system is mostly carrot afaic and a small but extremely disruptive percentage just don't respond to the carrot. Another one, Many of us are forced down the route of mixed ability (which has its benefits socially imo) but does detract from outcomes for the academically average student imo…and is certainly more difficult than teaching a group with in or around the same ability- while some countries may have mixed abilities within schools the schools themselves are streamed…i.e.: School A takes the bright pupils (the not so bright just won't get in) and school B takes the ones deemed to be not so bright………don't tell me that doesn't affect the applicability of the research. There are many more discrepancies I'd like accounted for……..the devil is in the detail but we are being hammered by populist soundbites Part of me says why bother fighting…let the baying masses get their way…..they'll get to mess it up quicker that way and consequently they will have to start thinking properly about fixing it sooner - at the end of the day it will be their children and grandchildren will have to go through the system they messed up either through ignorance or jealously or short sightedness.
Mrwhite1970 wrote: » The vote could easily have been tampered with and possibly was. But thats the past. We need to rule out it happening in future. Security needs to be improved. As for those who dont think such things could never happen-two names o'Casey and Nixon. Didnt we even have a Minster of Finance with no bank account and who claimed he got lucky on the horses and another who imported arms?
Armelodie wrote: » Crikey the Indo are really clutching at straws.... Click here for a laugh at the state of 'investigative' journalism in Ireland.TL;DR paraphrased version Growing Concern amongst principals (ahem... sources please!!) about not being allowed to be present in school for the first fifteen minutes in case angry parents decide to plonk their kids into school in protest at the strike. Also note the use of the 'rote learning' stick that is being used to bash us on the head at every opportunity. The paragraph below was the sum total of her 'investigation' into the reason behind the strike."The unions are opposed mainly to teachers taking over any responsibility for assessing students, as part of a wider move to end reliance on the traditional Junior Cert exams and the rote learning they encourage." I'm actually upbeat after seeing how desperate they are to cook up a frenzy. See the comments at the end.. I presume you have to pay them to comment!
Mrwhite1970 wrote: » Might I suggest you pen a letter to Irish indo or times? I have published quite a few. You might even guess who I am . We need a bigger audience. Will you consider it? I have contact details for Education editors both. Its time consuming. I have had about ten published plus three articles. I need backup.
Mrwhite1970 wrote: » You know my name-say my name : Hesinberg!
hairyprincess wrote: » Is the strike still going ahead? I have seen nothing in the media the last few days and no communication from my daughters school about it.
Inspector Coptoor wrote: » As it stands, yes, it's still going ahead. I'm sure school authorities will be sending letters home with students tomorrow advising parents for their kids to stay at home on Tuesday
