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Strike On ! Proposed New Junior Cert See Mod Warning Post #1

MrJones1973

Highjacking OP's post for ....

Mod Gentle Warning

OK folks, It looks like this is going to be 'The strike-thread', so for the proposes of civility I'd ask that we just try to keep the title in mind to focus the debate as a lot of 'kitchen sinks' are going to get thrown around.

We've done the circular blame game of young vs' old teachers to death on here so I think the time is appropriate to move on.

Also the circular argument of ASTI vs TUI/INTO.

Also management vs' teachers.

These can muddy the waters of the substantive issue of the proposed JCSA and the strike action.

As usual...

Read charter (there will be a test for the boldies).
Report stuff ... or use the ignore function for people who annoy you.
It's an open forum so think of it as an oppertunity to challenge and change some peoples' views.

MOD

Are most voting? What way? No real talks have occurred with Minister because of ballot. JMB has suggested we go back to 2011 NCCA proposals-though their timing for this suggestion (during a ballot) is seen as poor.
Bottom line folks unless you are prepared to go out for a few strike days-you're screwed. That's my view-all that's being suggested so far is a few Temporary A posts to help bring it in. Jan also says "Its not about money"

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rainbowtrout

This is on the Impact website, I'd imagine quite a number of secretaries would be members of this union.

Can't quote as it's a pdf but it basically says that they have to attend work unless told otherwise by their employer.

http://www.impact.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/strikedirective.pdf

seavill

happywithlife wrote: »

22 SNAs 😯

+1
??????????? Seriously 22?

gaeilgebeo

seavill wrote: »

+1
??????????? Seriously 22?

Yes.
Seriously.
We are a large DEIS school.

The Letheram

If they cross a picket they are scabs. Simple as imo. Their union are worthless for recommending that they do it and if I were in your shoes the next time they have a dispute they would know all about it.

rainbowtrout

The Letheram wrote: »

If they cross a picket they are scabs. Simple as imo. Their union are worthless for recommending that they do it and if I were in your shoes the next time they have a dispute they would know all about it.

I'm actually surprised they have been advised to go to work. It would be normal enough for one union to support another union's strike by telling their members not to pass the picket.

evolving_doors

The Letheram wrote: »

If they cross a picket they are scabs. Simple as imo. Their union are worthless for recommending that they do it and if I were in your shoes the next time they have a dispute they would know all about it.

In fairness though it's not an all-out strike... chances are most schools will be closed in any event.

Mardy Bum

The Letheram wrote: »

If they cross a picket they are scabs. Simple as imo. Their union are worthless for recommending that they do it and if I were in your shoes the next time they have a dispute they would know all about it.

I hate this level of vitriol, particularly the word scab. Where were the unions when post 2012 teachers' wages were cut by 25% compared with those entering a few years previous. The vast vast majority of people look out for themselves, unions included and it is hypocritical to pretend otherwise. I'm ASTI btw.

Teacher22

I see some schools are participating in CPD training days for new junior cycle. I thought the industrial action had put an end to any CPD to do with the new junior cycle. Can anyone explain why this is?

acequion

Teacher22 wrote: »

I see some schools are participating in CPD training days for new junior cycle. I thought the industrial action had put an end to any CPD to do with the new junior cycle. Can anyone explain why this is?

What schools and where? Because,yes the union ban on CPD for the new junior cycle is indeed very specific.

Teacher22

I follow JCforTeachers on Twitter and they are posting photos and info on the CPD training taking place in Mayo, LAoise, Wexford,Kildare,Carlow,Waterford,DUblin in the last few days even today....Tuesday 25th November

acequion

Teacher22 wrote: »

I follow JCforTeachers on Twitter and they are posting photos and info on the CPD training taking place in Mayo, LAoise, Wexford,Kildare,Carlow,Waterford,DUblin in the last few days even today....Tuesday 25th November

But are you sure it's to do with the new junior cycle? I honestly don't see how they can do that if they are union members. And even if not union members,it would be very bad form to attend the training while the dispute is ongoing. To me that's like passing a picket.

Teacher22

This is what they're tweeting @JCforTeachers: South East Region ... JCT happy to start our journey with schools in Wexford this morning!

Teacher22

And there is more of them @JCforTeachers: Evidence of group work! ... JCT working with staff as part of their JC whole school CPD day today in Co. Mayo

Teacher22

All dated in the last few days @JCforTeachers: Creating JC 'statements of learning windows' with staff at a whole school CPD seminar in Co. Louth today

Teacher22

Posted this morning. @JCforTeachers: JCT is providing Junior Cycle whole-school CPD today for teaching staff in schools in Wexford, Limerick, Mayo & Louth. Busy day ahead :-)

Teacher22

If you visit juniorcycle.ie website it shows their tweets. You just have to scroll down. Is this actually happening? Or what's the story. I'm a teacher of english and won't even chat to my colleagues about the new first year specification as "it's against the rules of industrial action" but am I to believe schools are closing for a days training on the new junior cycle?????? Can someone clarify this please

Jamfa

Teacher22 wrote: »

If you visit juniorcycle.ie website it shows their tweets. You just have to scroll down. Is this actually happening? Or what's the story. I'm a teacher of english and won't even chat to my colleagues about the new first year specification as "it's against the rules of industrial action" but am I to believe schools are closing for a days training on the new junior cycle?????? Can someone clarify this please

The directives are from the ASTI & TUI unions and not all schools offering the junior cycle have members in these unions.

spurious

Jamfa wrote: »

The directives are from the ASTI & TUI unions and not all schools offering the junior cycle have members in these unions.

Apart from the few special National Schools who offer JC, I can't think of any schools that would not have at least one member in either union.

Godge

The Letheram wrote: »

If they cross a picket they are scabs. Simple as imo. Their union are worthless for recommending that they do it and if I were in your shoes the next time they have a dispute they would know all about it.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I'm actually surprised they have been advised to go to work. It would be normal enough for one union to support another union's strike by telling their members not to pass the picket.

What happened during the ASTI strike? Didn't the TUI tell its members to turn up to work but not to do the work of those who are striking?

irishgrover

Armelodie wrote: »

E-voting machines involved the spending of more money...

yea but that debacle was managed by a teacher on a political holiday :P

Jamfa

spurious wrote: »

Apart from the few special National Schools who offer JC, I can't think of any schools that would not have at least one member in either union.

So does that not answer the question?

solerina

Just wondering are any schools encouraging students to come in? It was suggested at break today that maybe our 6th and 3rd years should come into school next Tuesday....I was flabbergasted to say the least !!!!

I am assuming the answer is no but just wondering....

man_no_plan

Etbi have issued advice that schools should close to students due to lack of supervision / health and safety. Cleaners/ snas / office staff should be allowed in.

Caretaker to open and close the school

gaeilgebeo

solerina wrote: »

It was suggested at break today that maybe our 6th and 3rd years should come into school next Tuesday.

.

That is outrageous.

2011abc

Teacher22 wrote: »

All dated in the last few days @JCforTeachers: Creating JC 'statements of learning windows' with staff at a whole school CPD seminar in Co. Louth today

Statements of learning windows ???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!If thats quarter the crock of BS it sounds we're in for a treat ...

Teacher22

I still don't understand why some schools participating in CPD days. I must be stupid...can anyone explain it to me...do the unions know

Benicetomonty

Jamfa wrote: »

What extra work? Curricular change is JC English hasn't happened for 25 years so a new syllabus is well due. The school-based assessments involve a 3 min oral presentation at the end of 2nd year & a collection of their written assignments over 2nd & 3rd year. Both of these will take place in normal school time & I can't see how it's much different than what you do already. Much better to have other forms of assessment for English than a written exam in June of 3rd year.

http://levdavidovic.wordpress.com/2014/11/26/the-39-learning-outcomes-for-teachers/?utm_content=buffer403e1&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Think this just about covers it.

rainbowtrout

Teacher22 wrote: »

I still don't understand why some schools participating in CPD days. I must be stupid...can anyone explain it to me...do the unions know

Probably the same people who voted Yes for HRA. I know in my school the principal has submitted our names for CPD. Not something we signed up for individually. I imagine it's going on in other schools too. Also there are plenty of teachers who will roll over on JC Assessment. There was a discussion in my staffroom over break last week and one or two teachers commented in the vein of 'this strike action is such an annoyance and I'm losing a day's pay'. That's the bottom line to them, it's putting them out for a day and one day's pay in the year is what they care about most, not the avalanche of work coming their way if teacher marked assessment is pushed through. For perspective the teachers that made those comments are not on low hours, on low wages. They are on full hours, teaching for long enough.

Teacher22

Should the union not enquire from the union steward within these schools as to their adherence to the industrial action directive

evolving_doors

Teacher22 wrote: »

Should the union not enquire from the union steward within these schools as to their adherence to the industrial action directive

Yes they should... but it's up to someone to report them (I know I know)..

Anyhow, this was from a 2010 ASTI Nuacht magazine on an older directive...

"It is important that all members adhere to the directives. ASTI Standing Committee has decided that breaches of the ASTI directives should be formally submitted, in accordance with the Rules and Constitution of the ASTI, to the General Secretary giving details of the breach. "