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Cork GAA Discussion Thread

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Gary Neville

Highking - You obviously have no understanding of just how bad the Cork CB (under Frank Murphy) really is.

Cuthbert had nothing in his CV to suggest that he had the credentials to manage sucessfully at senior IC level. He was favoured by Frank, from the outset as he was prepared to try dualism and the Cuthbert/Honohan Axis in B/Town have always been Frank Loyalists.

Cuthbert failed to learn any lessons during the year and adopted a defensive structure a few weeks before the Mayo Game.

His first year was a shambles - he likes to have total control and brought in people with as little experience as himself. I know, for certain, that the majority of players are very disappointed with his performance and have decided to accept him next year, as there is no real appetite for further disputes in Cork.

I cannot see see the players perform at 100% level with a management that they do not believe in and we all know that's a disaster.

The big fear is that Frank will want to give him a 2nd term (2 more years) and there are few delegates or CB Executive Members that will oppose Frank's wishes.

Cork Senior Football has the talent but has a woefully inept manager and will contunue to underperform. Relegation may be a blessing in disguise as it's the most likely way of seeing the back of Cuthbert.

HighKing33

Orizio wrote: »

Derry are renowned for being high flyers in league/worthless in championship and that Meath team is just out and out mediocre. Your point isn't inaccurate, so much as it pointless and irrelevant.

He he he!

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury...

Anyways, league form is hard to guage but the point I was making specifically concerned the psychological effect of taking a hammering from that Dublin team last year - who were a phenomenon! Now, maybe as a Corkman it's difficult to give them credit for the performance levels they put up and this is some kind 'real capital' thing but it was very striking watching teams disintegrate after facing them. You can include Cork in that bracket.

No I'm not on PROC forums but I was struck by the level of animosity towards the current regime and wanted to see what Cork posters made of it. I thought the football Cork played in the league was top drawer and a big improvement over Counihan who seemed to insist on running the ball onto the 40 every time but championship is the acid test. Speaking purely as a football fan I like Cuthbert's brand of football and I hope it's a success.

thinkstoomuch1

HighKing33 wrote: »

He he he!

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury...

Anyways, league form is hard to guage but the point I was making specifically concerned the psychological effect of taking a hammering from that Dublin team last year - who were a phenomenon! Now, maybe as a Corkman it's difficult to give them credit for the performance levels they put up and this is some kind 'real capital' thing but it was very striking watching teams disintegrate after facing them. You can include Cork in that bracket.

No I'm not on PROC forums but I was struck by the level of animosity towards the current regime and wanted to see what Cork posters made of it. I thought the football Cork played in the league was top drawer and a big improvement over Counihan who seemed to insist on running the ball onto the 40 every time but championship is the acid test. Speaking purely as a football fan I like Cuthbert's brand of football and I hope it's a success.

Jesus your consistent I'll give you credit,totally defiant to the most utter utter complete absolutely drivel with greatest respect you clearly have not a clue regards cork football and this is cherry picking of the highest order

Great great managers like yere own sean Boylan, old chap learn from mistakes, adapt, evolve,and learn from mistakes.

Christ above by your logic anyone suffers defeat huge defeat to dublin should be given pity and excuse not to learn from defeats

Imagine telling your attitude to defeat to ronan o garage,driscoll of fitzmaurice cody of this world.
They wouldn't entertain such nonense.
Your point is clearly off the wall in reality.
Will Joe schmidt or Paul o connell go with such utter boll## in today's rubgy hammered by Australia before excuse to say ah don't expect much

I don't know why you reference proc posters with greatest respect them it's irrelevant as this is boards not proc forum.

thinkstoomuch1

HighKing33 wrote: »

ronan o'garage?

Yeah usual nonense, people can't debate a point.That the best you can do, good man.

Water off a ducks back you critise my grammar.

Unlike you do I can actually debate a point and it will actually makes sense.
Stick to the points debated, you posts purely posting have been exposed as nonense, now I'll be honest I ain't wasting time going tit for tat as look your blinded by reality of cork football but it is like trying to get blood from a stone, you won't change

Your entitled to your option no matter how off the mark it Is.

wackokid

A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still.

As old as tae, but still true today.

Kingsmill likes Cubbys brand of football...................OMG

thinkstoomuch1

http://www.eveningecho.ie/2014/10/08/walsh-will-suit-just-one-cork-campaign/

Reading walsh here you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see he clearly wasn't giving any vote confidence in the football and clearly said jbm staying on was crucial to hes decision.
If a poor manager got the hurling job, then why change.

He's said it in the article

Quote

Would it be fair to suggest that Walsh will have a better chance of All-Ireland glory with the hurlers? “No, that won’t be the case. It’s an awkward one to look at over the next few weeks. It’s whoever I feel I am most comfortable performing with or have most interest in.
“Not the main one, not the most important one, it’s all about the group, all about the manager and the backroom staff. It will all have to be taken into account.”
End of quote

See the part about it being all about the group manager and backroom staff has to be taken in to account.

Clear as day he's saying he doesn't have faith in the current management.

He mentions in the article the naivety, of kerry game,and management were the ones set them up that way
I don't agree that they ran mayo close.
Point of note is he said football talent is their, we all know that.
What's hugely significant is not one mention of praise or endorsement for cuthbhert to say I've faith in him.
Walsh also hinted previous in the news papers ed coughlan he'd love to have with cork football.
Walsh doesn't want to come straight out Understablly in saying no one has faith in management as he's knows group players too well to go against set up publicy and he knows it won't make blind bit of difference as Gary also posted here. but he's clearly Hinting all is not right.
Walsh mentioned football talent Is there but in regards the other two components he mentioned manager and back room staff in cork football he clearly doesn't rate as he choosed hurling imo.

If anyone in cork ex players wanted save cork football they would be better coming out and calling a spade a spade and question results,the only ones talking are the the three wise men backing cuthbhert are teddy mccarthy, Larry Tompkins,he's old selector friend minor days mick slocum.
All fine as players but all those three are appalling poor managers.
Slocum st finbarrs were poor this year.
All three ex great players but totally pro county board don't rock the boat.
Teddy comes out in summer, says dualism is working, it didn't even come close.
You hardly take teddy who record is dismal in management or Larry in one good year but six awful years with cork as gospel when it comes to advocating a manager.

HighKing33

He's talking about the commitment required to be a dual player (specifically a midfielder), how there was a lack of understanding with his goalkeeper - something that should have been refined with more regular practice.

I wouldn't use that article as evidence to hang a man with but each to his own.

thinkstoomuch1

Fascinating insight by ed coughlan
Yes it rubgy is the theme but a lot of principles he holds are similar to gaa.
He's spot on regards coaching drills for youngsters.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/why-are-aussies-so-good-at-range-of-sports-299102.html

At the end he says you cant blame weather etc he doesn't do excuses
Coughlan is a huge loss to cork gaa.
I still think cork should done all it could to retain him.
They should known he had been with mayo for a bit so once beaten inevitable he'd go with Horan.
If cunningham got cork hurling job hed be in cork.

You see flanganan for all he's expertise and expierence Cork have just as much quality in ed coughlan and he's worked with professional athletes.
Not good enough for cork but lot like other coaches from cork snapped up by other counties that want simply and only the best.

zetecescort

best of luck to Millstreet tomorrow in Brosna. live on 103fm

keep going

Why are peole so convinced that there is fantastic talent in cork and its just down to bad management. I dont see a exceptional conveyer belt of talent coming through and bar the odd good performance our winnings are slim.and clubs performance s tend to back this up.yes there is huge reservations about current senior set up but there are no natural born leaders on the ground instead we have alot of players that aee more suited to peripheral roles

thinkstoomuch1

keep going wrote: »

Why are peole so convinced that there is fantastic talent in cork and its just down to bad management. I dont see a exceptional conveyer belt of talent coming through and bar the odd good performance our winnings are slim.and clubs performance s tend to back this up.yes there is huge reservations about current senior set up but there are no natural born leaders on the ground instead we have alot of players that aee more suited to peripheral roles

How many natural born leaders would you think cork need??

keep going

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

How many natural born leaders would you think cork need??

Call it leadership or callit that bit extra, just dosent seem to be there, not a big hurling follower but it seems to be there too

thinkstoomuch1

keep going wrote: »

Call it leadership or callit that bit extra, just dosent seem to be there, not a big hurling follower but it seems to be there too

I see your point very genuine point

But how many leaders do you thinks a team needs?? Roughly say

Like no team rarely has fifteen leaders bar possibly kilkenny etc

keep going

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I see your point very genuine point

But how many leaders do you thinks a team needs?? Roughly say

Like no team rarely has fifteen leaders bar possibly kilkenny etc

Most times in club teams its only one but at intercounty could be 2 or3.where imcoming from with this is the performance s of both club teams put me thinking that its a long time since we had a genuinely competitive team at intercounty club, not even talking about winning it.and alot of our minor teams have flattered to deceive in recent years, oftened looking very promising but getting caught out in the crunch matches.

thinkstoomuch1

Shields,cadogan,walsh last year,Donnacha o connor, Colm o Neill Brian hurley, paddy Kelly are seven real real leaders imo cork football had this year.

What is leadership
From wiki

Leadership has been described as "a process of social influence in which one person can enlist the aid and support of others in the accomplishment of a common task".[1] For example, some understand a leader simply as somebody whom people follow, or as somebody who guides or directs others,[citation needed] while others define leadership as "organizing a group of people to achieve a common goal".[citation needed]

Shields two all stars, lead from the front in big big games v dublin and down in all ireland win in particular and so much leader has marked best defenders in the game,so much leadership sought by afl, they mentally assess players too so saw leadership in him to recruit him.
He's driving force for cork and that's why some want him at centre back.
At spiorid naomh outstanding school first corn mhuire win nine years ago.

Cadogan tough as nails,abrasive, and so much so handled great legend Paul Galvin, wanted by hurling for that but he's better footballer.
He's stood up in many games when the need is greatest

Paddy Kelly if he was deployed as sweeper around half back was the leader we needed.
He's came back from crippling injuries, outstanding in 2010,outstanding for club, cork club player of the year stands up when the need is greatest.
A leader yes hampered by injuries but has real leadership.

Aidan walsh young footballer of the year,two time all star,stood up and saved cuthbhert a humiliation loss to tipp, brilliant v down in all ireland final,outstanding year one hurling.
He had weakness in football but due to nit being developed but leadership wasn't main issue.

Donnach o connor the quiet lad that once thought he wasn't good enough to train with cork grew from a little acron to a magic tree in years past. Countless times took crucial penalties v kerry dublin. Etc, stood up v down in the All-Ireland final , v mayo this year,is a leader, breeds it through he's nostrils, amazing player, ned English developed him hugely also as a leader.

Colm o Neill, not one not two but three cruciate he bounced back, not even skippy the kangaroo could have bounced back with such conviction and ruthless determination in adversity.
Such leadership off the field.
On it, numerous examples.
On poorly coached cork team, lambs to the slaughter v tactical more innovative donegal in 2012, goal and three stood up when others didn't.
In 2009 He got a goal and point in the ist ten minutes v kerry in the all ireland final but then due to couninhan masterplan of slow lateral hand passing he got no ball then.
That same year colm came on to kick a monstrous forty five in killarney.

Against dublin in semi final he won the crucial penalty.
Should of started v down but was brilliant as a sub.
No training. Yet he was glorious and magnificent in the introduction v dublin this year league,magnificent game v mayo but didn't start v kerry not hes fault.
Imperious in Cadbury 21 player for the future.
Leadership he has it in droves just like Italy has fine wine.A leader, a gladiator,A warrior, A solider a braveheart king of the jungle,colm has it all.

Brian hurley, young but christ heaven sweet lord,above he has proven he's leadership for Castlehaven in brillant player last year top scorer cork county club win and I think player of the year.
Against Tyrone in beaten all ireland final got around five points from play.
In The u21 all ireland final v Galway , on beaten team scores wonderful goal really took game by the scruff of the neck single Handley dragged cork back in to the game

Had brilliant debut v kerry in killarney under poorly coached couninhan team last year,magnificent v dublin in Croke Park

He works in the RNLAlife boat rescue or used to, so out in stormy seas saving life's he has leadership off the field.
Yes a work in progress footballing skills and decision making wise but stands up when the need is greatest.
A born born leader.
There are seven leaders here, one in every line bar half back line last year.
Cork had leaders already and in o rourke. Collins, clancy. Crowley potential leaders of the future but every leader like great Paul o connell I mean great, really really great leader needs coach to have a game plan, tactics devised some leaders have a system and blue print to lead your team to victory.
Paul o connell was great leader but on poorly coached irish teams in past like the great I mean great really really great Keith wood just inducted irb hall of fame also was a great leader but ireland still lost many games due to lack of talent and management.A leader can lead but he needs support also primarily in management, none of cork players in football have currently that imo with current set up.
Look at what Joel schmidt is doing with irish rubgy developing young leaders like mcgrath,foley,henehshsw, o mahony to compliment o connell, heaslip etc.
Good coaching is king.
At just twenty one henehshsw will lead from the centre for years to come.
Cuthbhert could done the same with clancy at half back but he simply doesn't know how to coach elite players to an elite level imo.

You have points that are valid espiceally in club football but I think I have given more than three leaders here, proven leaders so imo it is wrong and just an incorrect if cork football says we have no leaders in it at intercounty means we fail to look at the obvious reasons we lost this year.
And we didn't just loose we had humiliation to dublin, kerry, Tipperary was awful and rest of the games bar one very poor showings.

It does not matter if leaders are born or made all that matters is you have them.
The excuses people add to debate cork football don't add up at times.
Cork 2012 hurling under jbm had young team, devoid of leadership,starved of underage success but jbm developed them.
Cuthbhert has no such excuse in he has way more leaders availble problem is he can't lead a team himself as results clearly prove.

Cork has proven expierence in proven all ireland senior winners and 21 winners, and players like clancy. Maguire, cronin, dorman, kiely have won tough sigerson with ucc, so leadership potential there if introduced. ,.

Cork have imo the players I don't doubt to win an all ireland, just crave for a tactical mastermind that we hadn't since king billy Morgan.
Remember donegal and kerry won all irelands with limited resources to cork imo.

I have no doubt no doubt if john clearly, Ned English, Ed coughlan were with current cork team they would win the all ireland.
Mayo with only one forward but with the brilliant donie buckley and horan and ed coughlan came very close to winning the all ireland.
If cork had competent coaching with the forward we have we would win an all ireland.

I do agree cork football is lacking leadership but not on the field rather on the line.
A true leader inspires poor player become good players, good players to great.
To lead imo first you must inspire.
Now they say to judge a scenario walk in that shoe.

So imagine your a cork player last year you want ruthless conviction that embodies leadership.
You watch before your eyes a manager that facilities bit part players in loosing three central players, cadogan, cahalane and walsh to hurling that have bar ronan mccarthy limited coaching expierence on the side line and even with mccarthy not anything at club one in success.

.
How can cork players be truly inspired.You need a culture to develop leadership.
Fitzmaurice was raw but he had brought in the proven cian o Neill.
Mcguinness had success at club level.

Minors failure was primarily due to poor management, cuthbhert,mick slocum, Diarmuid o Donovan, donal o sullivan now, imo not great management in their days.

Best of luck to milstreet today.
Kilmallock v Cratloe is huge significance to cork hurling imo.
Once Cratloe aren't not tired I expect them to expose this limited time one dimeomshal Kilmallock team.
That's the only concern how fresh are Cratloe.
Loosing last week may be blessing disguise in it gives them real hunger for today.

CORKDOUBLE

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Shields,cadogan,walsh last year,Donnacha o connor, Colm o Neill Brian hurley, paddy Kelly are seven real real leaders imo cork football had this year.

What is leadership
From wiki

Leadership has been described as "a process of social influence in which one person can enlist the aid and support of others in the accomplishment of a common task".[1] For example, some understand a leader simply as somebody whom people follow, or as somebody who guides or directs others,[citation needed] while others define leadership as "organizing a group of people to achieve a common goal".[citation needed]

Shields two all stars, lead from the front in big big games v dublin and down in all ireland win in particular and so much leader has marked best defenders in the game,so much leadership sought by afl, they mentally assess players too so saw leadership in him to recruit him.
He's driving force for cork and that's why some want him at centre back.
At spiorid naomh outstanding school first corn mhuire win nine years ago.

Cadogan tough as nails,abrasive, and so much so handled great legend Paul Galvin, wanted by hurling for that but he's better footballer.
He's stood up in many games when the need is greatest

Paddy Kelly if he was deployed as sweeper around half back was the leader we needed.
He's came back from crippling injuries, outstanding in 2010,outstanding for club, cork club player of the year stands up when the need is greatest.
A leader yes hampered by injuries but has real leadership.

Aidan walsh young footballer of the year,two time all star,stood up and saved cuthbhert a humiliation loss to tipp, brilliant v down in all ireland final,outstanding year one hurling.
He had weakness in football but due to nit being developed but leadership wasn't main issue.

Donnach o connor the quiet lad that once thought he wasn't good enough to train with cork grew from a little acron to a magic tree in years past. Countless times took crucial penalties v kerry dublin. Etc, stood up v down in the All-Ireland final , v mayo this year,is a leader, breeds it through he's nostrils, amazing player, ned English developed him hugely also as a leader.

Colm o Neill, not one not two but three cruciate he bounced back, not even skippy the kangaroo could have bounced back with such conviction and ruthless determination in adversity.
Such leadership off the field.
On it, numerous examples.
On poorly coached cork team, lambs to the slaughter v tactical more innovative donegal in 2012, goal and three stood up when others didn't.
In 2009 He got a goal and point in the ist ten minutes v kerry in the all ireland final but then due to couninhan masterplan of slow lateral hand passing he got no ball then.
That same year colm came on to kick a monstrous forty five in killarney.

Against dublin in semi final he won the crucial penalty.
Should of started v down but was brilliant as a sub.
No training. Yet he was glorious and magnificent in the introduction v dublin this year league,magnificent game v mayo but didn't start v kerry not hes fault.
Imperious in Cadbury 21 player for the future.
Leadership he has it in droves just like Italy has fine wine.A leader, a gladiator,A warrior, A solider a braveheart king of the jungle,colm has it all.

Brian hurley, young but christ heaven sweet lord,above he has proven he's leadership for Castlehaven in brillant player last year top scorer cork county club win and I think player of the year.
Against Tyrone in beaten all ireland final got around five points from play.
In The u21 all ireland final v Galway , on beaten team scores wonderful goal really took game by the scruff of the neck single Handley dragged cork back in to the game

Had brilliant debut v kerry in killarney under poorly coached couninhan team last year,magnificent v dublin in Croke Park

He works in the RNLAlife boat rescue or used to, so out in stormy seas saving life's he has leadership off the field.
Yes a work in progress footballing skills and decision making wise but stands up when the need is greatest.
A born born leader.
There are seven leaders here, one in every line bar half back line last year.
Cork had leaders already and in o rourke. Collins, clancy. Crowley potential leaders of the future but every leader like great Paul o connell I mean great, really really great leader needs coach to have a game plan, tactics devised some leaders have a system and blue print to lead your team to victory.
Paul o connell was great leader but on poorly coached irish teams in past like the great I mean great really really great Keith wood just inducted irb hall of fame also was a great leader but ireland still lost many games due to lack of talent and management.A leader can lead but he needs support also primarily in management, none of cork players in football have currently that imo with current set up.
Look at what Joel schmidt is doing with irish rubgy developing young leaders like mcgrath,foley,henehshsw, o mahony to compliment o connell, heaslip etc.
Good coaching is king.
At just twenty one henehshsw will lead from the centre for years to come.
Cuthbhert could done the same with clancy at half back but he simply doesn't know how to coach elite players to an elite level imo.

You have points that are valid espiceally in club football but I think I have given more than three leaders here, proven leaders so imo it is wrong and just an incorrect if cork football says we have no leaders in it at intercounty means we fail to look at the obvious reasons we lost this year.
And we didn't just loose we had humiliation to dublin, kerry, Tipperary was awful and rest of the games bar one very poor showings.

It does not matter if leaders are born or made all that matters is you have them.
The excuses people add to debate cork football don't add up at times.
Cork 2012 hurling under jbm had young team, devoid of leadership,starved of underage success but jbm developed them.
Cuthbhert has no such excuse in he has way more leaders availble problem is he can't lead a team himself as results clearly prove.

Cork has proven expierence in proven all ireland senior winners and 21 winners, and players like clancy. Maguire, cronin, dorman, kiely have won tough sigerson with ucc, so leadership potential there if introduced. ,.

Cork have imo the players I don't doubt to win an all ireland, just crave for a tactical mastermind that we hadn't since king billy Morgan.
Remember donegal and kerry won all irelands with limited resources to cork imo.

I have no doubt no doubt if john clearly, Ned English, Ed coughlan were with current cork team they would win the all ireland.
Mayo with only one forward but with the brilliant donie buckley and horan and ed coughlan came very close to winning the all ireland.
If cork had competent coaching with the forward we have we would win an all ireland.

I do agree cork football is lacking leadership but not on the field rather on the line.
A true leader inspires poor player become good players, good players to great.
To lead imo first you must inspire.
Now they say to judge a scenario walk in that shoe.

So imagine your a cork player last year you want ruthless conviction that embodies leadership.
You watch before your eyes a manager that facilities bit part players in loosing three central players, cadogan, cahalane and walsh to hurling that have bar ronan mccarthy limited coaching expierence on the side line and even with mccarthy not anything at club one in success.

.
How can cork players be truly inspired.You need a culture to develop leadership.
Fitzmaurice was raw but he had brought in the proven cian o Neill.
Mcguinness had success at club level.

Minors failure was primarily due to poor management, cuthbhert,mick slocum, Diarmuid o Donovan, donal o sullivan now, imo not great management in their days.

Best of luck to milstreet today.
Kilmallock v Cratloe is huge significance to cork hurling imo.
Once Cratloe aren't not tired I expect them to expose this limited time one dimeomshal Kilmallock team.
That's the only concern how fresh are Cratloe.
Loosing last week may be blessing disguise in it gives them real hunger for today.

I have read a lot of your posts TTM but my word thats one great post .....inspiring ! well done ....jusy one thing as regards Donal O Sullivan he has led Beara divisional teams to win a County senior football championship ....to a County u21A title ....and to a premier Minor football county title .....thats the big trible ...i am not too sure has any other manager done that record ....and its tougher with divisional teams to win countys .....now whether hes intercounty manager standard i dont know......

sean mac

TTM, absolutely brilliant post and hopefully will have put this highking chappie to sleep with his ignorant rubbish posts on a subject where he knows nothing. Cork have serious players, a very good panel, definately a top 4 panel in football. After that it comes down to training, coaching, mentoring, support structures, management and game management and in each one of those cuthbert and his innocent sideline have been found out. So with this set up we languish outside the semi final zone in football and are looking at division 2 football in 2016.
We are stuck with cuthbert for at least another year but far more likely to be 3 imo a serious pity.

ShamoBuc

Cracker of a game ! Gone to et. Didn't think kilmallock would be that good, played very well even with 14.

4 weeks in a row tg4 have et in their games.

ShamoBuc

Great win for the limerick men
1-32 v 3-18

Very tough on Cratloe to lose twice in 8 days in extra time.

Rebel norrie

Why can't Colm Lyons ref like this in cork club games. Let it flow. Great game of hurling.

Rightwing

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Shields,cadogan,walsh last year,Donnacha o connor, Colm o Neill Brian hurley, paddy Kelly are seven real real leaders imo cork football had this year.

What is leadership
From wiki

Leadership has been described as "a process of social influence in which one person can enlist the aid and support of others in the accomplishment of a common task".[1] For example, some understand a leader simply as somebody whom people follow, or as somebody who guides or directs others,[citation needed] while others define leadership as "organizing a group of people to achieve a common goal".[citation needed]

Shields two all stars, lead from the front in big big games v dublin and down in all ireland win in particular and so much leader has marked best defenders in the game,so much leadership sought by afl, they mentally assess players too so saw leadership in him to recruit him.
He's driving force for cork and that's why some want him at centre back.
At spiorid naomh outstanding school first corn mhuire win nine years ago.

Cadogan tough as nails,abrasive, and so much so handled great legend Paul Galvin, wanted by hurling for that but he's better footballer.
He's stood up in many games when the need is greatest

Paddy Kelly if he was deployed as sweeper around half back was the leader we needed.
He's came back from crippling injuries, outstanding in 2010,outstanding for club, cork club player of the year stands up when the need is greatest.
A leader yes hampered by injuries but has real leadership.

Aidan walsh young footballer of the year,two time all star,stood up and saved cuthbhert a humiliation loss to tipp, brilliant v down in all ireland final,outstanding year one hurling.
He had weakness in football but due to nit being developed but leadership wasn't main issue.

Donnach o connor the quiet lad that once thought he wasn't good enough to train with cork grew from a little acron to a magic tree in years past. Countless times took crucial penalties v kerry dublin. Etc, stood up v down in the All-Ireland final , v mayo this year,is a leader, breeds it through he's nostrils, amazing player, ned English developed him hugely also as a leader.

Colm o Neill, not one not two but three cruciate he bounced back, not even skippy the kangaroo could have bounced back with such conviction and ruthless determination in adversity.
Such leadership off the field.
On it, numerous examples.
On poorly coached cork team, lambs to the slaughter v tactical more innovative donegal in 2012, goal and three stood up when others didn't.
In 2009 He got a goal and point in the ist ten minutes v kerry in the all ireland final but then due to couninhan masterplan of slow lateral hand passing he got no ball then.
That same year colm came on to kick a monstrous forty five in killarney.

Against dublin in semi final he won the crucial penalty.
Should of started v down but was brilliant as a sub.
No training. Yet he was glorious and magnificent in the introduction v dublin this year league,magnificent game v mayo but didn't start v kerry not hes fault.
Imperious in Cadbury 21 player for the future.
Leadership he has it in droves just like Italy has fine wine.A leader, a gladiator,A warrior, A solider a braveheart king of the jungle,colm has it all.

Brian hurley, young but christ heaven sweet lord,above he has proven he's leadership for Castlehaven in brillant player last year top scorer cork county club win and I think player of the year.
Against Tyrone in beaten all ireland final got around five points from play.
In The u21 all ireland final v Galway , on beaten team scores wonderful goal really took game by the scruff of the neck single Handley dragged cork back in to the game

Had brilliant debut v kerry in killarney under poorly coached couninhan team last year,magnificent v dublin in Croke Park

He works in the RNLAlife boat rescue or used to, so out in stormy seas saving life's he has leadership off the field.
Yes a work in progress footballing skills and decision making wise but stands up when the need is greatest.
A born born leader.
There are seven leaders here, one in every line bar half back line last year.
Cork had leaders already and in o rourke. Collins, clancy. Crowley potential leaders of the future but every leader like great Paul o connell I mean great, really really great leader needs coach to have a game plan, tactics devised some leaders have a system and blue print to lead your team to victory.
Paul o connell was great leader but on poorly coached irish teams in past like the great I mean great really really great Keith wood just inducted irb hall of fame also was a great leader but ireland still lost many games due to lack of talent and management.A leader can lead but he needs support also primarily in management, none of cork players in football have currently that imo with current set up.
Look at what Joel schmidt is doing with irish rubgy developing young leaders like mcgrath,foley,henehshsw, o mahony to compliment o connell, heaslip etc.
Good coaching is king.
At just twenty one henehshsw will lead from the centre for years to come.
Cuthbhert could done the same with clancy at half back but he simply doesn't know how to coach elite players to an elite level imo.

You have points that are valid espiceally in club football but I think I have given more than three leaders here, proven leaders so imo it is wrong and just an incorrect if cork football says we have no leaders in it at intercounty means we fail to look at the obvious reasons we lost this year.
And we didn't just loose we had humiliation to dublin, kerry, Tipperary was awful and rest of the games bar one very poor showings.

It does not matter if leaders are born or made all that matters is you have them.
The excuses people add to debate cork football don't add up at times.
Cork 2012 hurling under jbm had young team, devoid of leadership,starved of underage success but jbm developed them.
Cuthbhert has no such excuse in he has way more leaders availble problem is he can't lead a team himself as results clearly prove.

Cork has proven expierence in proven all ireland senior winners and 21 winners, and players like clancy. Maguire, cronin, dorman, kiely have won tough sigerson with ucc, so leadership potential there if introduced. ,.

Cork have imo the players I don't doubt to win an all ireland, just crave for a tactical mastermind that we hadn't since king billy Morgan.
Remember donegal and kerry won all irelands with limited resources to cork imo.

I have no doubt no doubt if john clearly, Ned English, Ed coughlan were with current cork team they would win the all ireland.
Mayo with only one forward but with the brilliant donie buckley and horan and ed coughlan came very close to winning the all ireland.
If cork had competent coaching with the forward we have we would win an all ireland.

I do agree cork football is lacking leadership but not on the field rather on the line.
A true leader inspires poor player become good players, good players to great.
To lead imo first you must inspire.
Now they say to judge a scenario walk in that shoe.

So imagine your a cork player last year you want ruthless conviction that embodies leadership.
You watch before your eyes a manager that facilities bit part players in loosing three central players, cadogan, cahalane and walsh to hurling that have bar ronan mccarthy limited coaching expierence on the side line and even with mccarthy not anything at club one in success.

.
How can cork players be truly inspired.You need a culture to develop leadership.
Fitzmaurice was raw but he had brought in the proven cian o Neill.
Mcguinness had success at club level.

Minors failure was primarily due to poor management, cuthbhert,mick slocum, Diarmuid o Donovan, donal o sullivan now, imo not great management in their days.

Best of luck to milstreet today.
Kilmallock v Cratloe is huge significance to cork hurling imo.
Once Cratloe aren't not tired I expect them to expose this limited time one dimeomshal Kilmallock team.
That's the only concern how fresh are Cratloe.
Loosing last week may be blessing disguise in it gives them real hunger for today.

Maybe it's just me, but a team that scores 1-32 may not be all that limited, or then again, we sit on our bottoms and criticise all and everyone. :rolleyes:

zetecescort

Brosna 1-10 Millstreet 0-8

solwhit12

Rightwing wrote: »

Maybe it's just me, but a team that scores 1-32 may not be all that limited, or then again, we sit on our bottoms and criticise all and everyone. :rolleyes:

Don't get him started he's bad enough.

ShamoBuc

solwhit12 wrote: »

Don't get him started he's bad enough.

Any nuggets of wisdom you would like to share?....... newbie:rolleyes:

thinkstoomuch1

I was expecting right wing your words of wisdom. Your the same fella said nothing good came from West limerick sporting Wise last week in relation to hurling.
When I saw that I know exactly what you're knowledge of wisdom is. I could list numerous famous west limerick men in sport but I'd be wasting my time.

I said I'd say nothing. Sure how could I be surprised when you tried to convince all clare won all ireland from div one b hurling and league hurling is irrelevant in the current game.in division one means nothing despite many limerick fans not agreeing.

You run with the Hare chase with the hound it's comical at times
One minute limerick hurling is great, when ye loose ye will be bad again.
I wouldn't get carried away now as tj probably bring in six Kilmallock lad's for limerick and bar present ones maybee o donnell rest are not intercounty standard.

I said I'd fear the Cratloe tirednese and once it went to extra time there was only one winner.
Cratloe tried to be greedy go for football and hurling and ended up with nothing.

Sitting on me hole, no sorry old Sport I don't do that.
I call a game from the start.
Cratloe touch was off and when have you seen collins and mcgrath look jaded.
It was huge ask for them.
But look build yourselves up,this is an all irelands for Kilmallock, do what only limerick do best.
Ye will beat the ulster or London champions and reach the final.
Will ye win????
I doubt it very much come back to me then.

Ye will play a Leinster or Galway team with same freshness ye have.
Yere full back line is very weak three goals conceded again, now also Cratloe could have but poor touch had five
This team will concede goals

In fairness, sullivan was brillant, Loughlin on loose ball but still isn't a safe full back imo,paddy loughlin had great game but imo should be starting and not a forward.
Two mulchays.were brillant, ghraham in particular and the minor Hanley is a fine prospect, lots of hurling.
Good win congratulations but I totally stand by I feel there is limations to the team and all things were not equal today imo considering this must been Cratloe fifth game at least in both codes, Kilmallock second.
Now Kilmallock can only beat what is in front of them but I still have concerns regards them
Win the all ireland and I will personally come on limerick thread and congratulate you and then admit I was totally wrong regards this team.I'm a man of my word

It would be naive to think it didn't have a influence the dualism with Cratloe.
Gavin o mahony was good but hardly scoring forward.
Cratloe were out on their feet in extra time, look at the space Kilmallock had.
Today showed even at club level dualism is a dying breed.
Douglas and na piarssigh in cork must take note.
Na piarssigh must stop joyce,gould playing football etc as they won't win cork cork county doing both.

Enjoy the fact limerick nexts team in an all ireland.But a huge huge test now.
Na piarssigh In my own opinion with a better team should won one all ireland.
Can Kilmallock go further time will tell.

Bruff yesterday huge favourites lost a game they should of won so shows limerick struggle with favouritism

I wasn't sitting on my hole I was as it.Limericks inability to win games as favourites will be a test for Kilmallock.
The overdrive will go in to full flow now which is a bad sign for limerick teams
Sparrow done a great job today to be fair but should start paddy loughin as a defender as that defence needs changing.

Fergal horgan is a brilliant referee rebel norrie, he's brilliant in schools games.
Today was bad results cork in some will cod themselves that moral victory loss to munster champions is acceptable.
Hard luck to mililstreet without Kevin crowley huge huge ask away in kerry but they were competive in their ist year so they done very well.

Rightwing

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I was expecting right wing your words of wisdom. Your the same fella said nothing good came from West limerick sporting Wise last week in relation to hurling.
When I saw that I know exactly what you're knowledge of wisdom is. I could list numerous famous west limerick men in sport but I'd be wasting my time.

I said I'd say nothing. Sure how could I be surprised when you tried to convince all clare won all ireland from div one b hurling and league hurling is irrelevant in the current game.in division one means nothing despite many limerick fans not agreeing.

You run with the Hare chase with the hound it's comical at times
One minute limerick hurling is great, when ye loose ye will be bad again.
I wouldn't get carried away now as tj probably bring in six Kilmallock lad's for limerick and bar present ones maybee o donnell rest are not intercounty standard.

I said I'd fear the Cratloe tirednese and once it went to extra time there was only one winner.
Cratloe tried to be greedy go for football and hurling and ended up with nothing.

Sitting on me hole, no sorry old Sport I don't do that.
I call a game from the start.
Cratloe touch was off and when have you seen collins and mcgrath look jaded.
It was huge ask for them.
But look build yourselves up,this is an all irelands for Kilmallock, do what only limerick do best.
Ye will beat the ulster or London champions and reach the final.
Will ye win????
I doubt it very much come back to me then.

Ye will play a Leinster or Galway team with same freshness ye have.
Yere full back line is very weak three goals conceded again, now also Cratloe could have but poor touch had five
This team will concede goals

In fairness, sullivan was brillant, Loughlin on loose ball but still isn't a safe full back imo,paddy loughlin had great game but imo should be starting and not a forward.
Two mulchays.were brillant, ghraham in particular and the minor Hanley is a fine prospect, lots of hurling.
Good win congratulations but I totally stand by I feel there is limations to the team and all things were not equal today imo considering this must been Cratloe fifth game at least in both codes, Kilmallock second.
Now Kilmallock can only beat what is in front of them but I still have concerns regards them
Win the all ireland and I will personally come on limerick thread and congratulate you and then admit I was totally wrong regards this team.I'm a man of my word

It would be naive to think it didn't have a influence the dualism with Cratloe.
Gavin o mahony was good but hardly scoring forward.
Cratloe were out on their feet in extra time, look at the space Kilmallock had.
Today showed even at club level dualism is a dying breed.
Douglas and na piarssigh in cork must take note.
Na piarssigh must stop joyce,gould playing football etc as they won't win cork cork county doing both.

Enjoy the fact limerick nexts team in an all ireland.But a huge huge test now.
Na piarssigh In my own opinion with a better team should won one all ireland.
Can Kilmallock go further time will tell.

Bruff yesterday huge favourites lost a game they should of won so shows limerick struggle with favouritism

I wasn't sitting on my hole I was as it.Limericks inability to win games as favourites will be a test for Kilmallock.
The overdrive will go in to full flow now which is a bad sign for limerick teams
Sparrow done a great job today to be fair but should start paddy loughin as a defender as that defence needs changing.

Fergal horgan is a brilliant referee rebel norrie, he's brilliant in schools games.
Today was bad results cork in some will cod themselves that moral victory loss to munster champions is acceptable.
Hard luck to mililstreet without Kevin crowley huge huge ask away in kerry but they were competive in their ist year so they done very well.

Let's call a spade a spade. Kilmallock's 1-32 has made a complete laughing stock of your analysis. Now, whether you know it has or hasn't is a seperate issue. Move on and learn from it. Case closed.

thinkstoomuch1

Rightwing wrote: »

Let's call a spade a spade. Kilmallock's 1-32 has made a complete laughing stock of your analysis. Now, whether you know it has or hasn't is a seperate issue. Move on and learn from it. Case closed.

No it has not in fact the full back line was exposed again.
You highlight and cherry pick part you want, clear as day I said I had concerns regards Cratloe tiredness

I admit totally sullivan surprised me with he's magnificent Seventh all credit due wonderful performance.
If he does that the next day huge bonus to ye
Sarsfields are not great in cork and Cratloe had dualism so I'm still unconvinced how good Kilmallock are.
Winning the all ireland will answer that

thinkstoomuch1

http://www.eveningecho.ie/2014/11/20/jbm-to-try-darren-in-forward-line/

Patrick collins set for a call up.
I'm not sure Declan mccarthy will work at half forward but worth at try and gives collins game time

Surprisingly is Eoin keane dropped of the panel, getting limited game time and then being played out of position when Stephen white was given countless times prove himself before been dropped it's not fair imo.

Daniel Roche their trying at half back.No logic whatsoever imo in he's strongest asset was never aerial domination jesus he'll get Burned by any top half forward

They say it's over hes man of natch county final display.
Frightening to belive anyone could be judged on that when the glen offer no resistance at all
I hear willam kearney got a call up,if true interesting.
I'm not sure he Is better corner back or half back than what we have.

Colm Barry deservedly got a call
Outstanding year but don't make him a full back

Luke meade deservedly got a call
Sean o donoughue is leader captain Ballincollig schools all ireland b football win, dual player never saw him as senior but maybee landers and jbm see he can be developed so fair enough.
Landers was huge a fan of him at minor.
Obviously landers knew he had the job around a week before it was ratified so he would be directly involved in picking lot of the minors picked.

Brian Murray is said to have a great fitzgibbon cup
Did he really??
In 2013 final he had to be subbed as Colin Galvin and niall o meara had too much bite in their hurling for him

Brian sullivan got a call and played intermediate for cork but imo isn't up to elite level
It will be intersting to see the full list

Andy walsh played u21 as a forward must be around twenty six now, I don't think he has stood out from the crowd but we'll see
Daire lordan got a call up,yes he has potential as a ball winning forward must be around twenty three and you see he's a prospect in that he could never realistically developed under ger Fitzgerald era of management

Good winner of aerial ball he is fast, mobile unlike cian mccarthy and Brian lawton more mobility in he's hurling and aggression to hes hurling a great addition and won't go missing in a game.

Reardens club team 2012 he made it, he was superb v ballyduff kerry munster few years ago, and saw him once destroy tough as nails noel furlong carrigtwohill.
He's good in the air.
Could he be the Seamus harnedy bill cooper find of the last two years.
He has potential, well see how much now.Has hurling no doubt.

Glenn o connor st finbarrs, he's a good hurler got a call up.
Called up and played for cork hurling b team during strike.
Ist time ever played was v Colmans in challenge.

Played v wit,dublin etc, played as a half back.
Played as half forward and midfield for barrs.
Has bit a bite to hes hurling and worth a look.
Stephen Murphy is a good call up also.
Dayne lee deserves the call up but must at harty cup level start showing he's talent in big games, the doon game in particular.
He Is a fine hurler.

I hope Anthony spillane gets a call up and I'd include Sean Hayes and Eoughan kinery as they have potential down the lime,both good in the air.
I'm baffled if Jamie nagle didn't get a call up to the panel.

I hope Alan dennehy is there
Michael sullivan going travelling so probably wont be around
Mick walsh imo would be far better than Roche or Murray as at least he has bite to hes hurling.
Cunningham of glen and David doolin I hope get a call up.
Brian moylan deserves a look, I think he was involved in the cork b team during the strikes.

Eddie Gunning and padraig gould deserves call up and rob o shea deserves a good run of games at midfield.
Kevin o Neill a fine aerial ball winner still u21 I'd give him game time.

As for Luke o farrell hugely talented however injury shouldn't cloud us from the reality before he got injury he was under performing to the talents he had and didn't have great all ireland finals bar great block down in the drawn game late on but I had Said Many times he flattered to decive, he had started good for cork but then faded.
He seemed to rest on he's laurels.
He really has got to step it up in the big big games where he has a tendency to fade when he was fully fit and the player that started with a ruthless conviction of getting goals he went for soft scoring option and became less influential.

I'm huge fan of he's talent but remains to be convinced has he the stomach for battle like tj Reid inside to really performs when the need is greatest.
I said it before injury he needs to do less of media interviews which he was doing lot of when he wasn't performing on the field.
I have no problem lad's and its a necessity in the game do media interviews but if a player is not doing it in games he must hold back and have one focus to regain form.
Paul Kerrigan could do likewise imo.

Imo farrell has a huge battle to get a starting place but with horgan playing well below the standard I'd have him with Paudie possibly in a great as a unit but with cadogan I'd worry is the balance wrong in you've three fast, elusive, dynamic ball players, no real target man.
Maybee Luke absence will regain the fire in him and he play to hes potential.
If so he's huge to cork if not good luck and thanks.
Ruthless bold, calls of execution is required by jbm etc,reputation mean nothing, cork hurling soft culture Mentailtly must change.

The panel according to the paper is still being finalised but has a lot of intermediate and minors hurlers that are in consideration apparently.
Imo seamous Bourke grenagh worth a look in my opinion he could be seen developed in a ground hog half forward bonner maher role.

It's correct call to include lot young lad's imo on the panel but what must be not lost in the process is throwing 15 raw recruits in at Waterford crystals could be lambs to the slaughter if there not careful in picking teams in it Is crucially important to have a central spine in every team picked so they can at least gain a foothold in the game, and give their young lad's a chance to grow and develop.
Playing a team full of novices could never get in to the game even at Waterford Crystal cup so the balance must be right

For example collins starts in goal he's young so you start some one like Shane o Neill or more importantly conor sullivan fighting for hes place in the full back line.
This allows you start Stephen Murphy in the other corner

Cahalane should be full back as the more games he gets a full back the better for cork, fans and cahalane and also Nash in for the ist time with cork he may actually have luxury of a natural full back ahead of him.
I say this now, I don't give a monkeys what game it Is but if Shane o Neill goes in to full back, a brilliant corner back it's a total total disgrace of a call in its clear as day he Is not a full back and its awful to ruin absolutely ruin a great player.

You could start colm Barry and cormack Murphy in a half back line as they played at intermediate together in a unit so there's a familiarity. At six you play lorchan or Ellis.

You don't play roche with other two as you need a bit of expierence.
Rob o shea has ucc experience and been on panel for a but so you could start him with Luke meade

You do not start Glenn o connor and Luke meade together, one or the other in you must give them and expierenced partner. OR like wise you don't start Murray with Luke.

If you start Daire lordan you don't start dayne lee in the same line at the same time.
Two raw recruits its unfair on them.
Bill cooper needs game's so you start Darren mccarthy who has senior expierence on panel,copper and lee or lordan

In full forward line if Andy walsh gets a game you start Paudie and moylan inside.
Like wise if Sean Hayes is called up then you play Hayes with Paudie and moylan so they can bring him in to a game like wise with Anthony spillane who could be a terrific full forward. Don't start three novices at senior together.

Him and colm Spillane have intercounty written all over them,their aggressive,no nonense teak tough breed of hurler cork craves for.

You give every players a fair chance you don't do Brian cuthbhert train of thought like he done with Micheal laoire,have him on a panel and barely use him, and come out with he will give every players a fair chance.
He said it but didnt do it,but again he is not questioned regards this.

You give every lad a fair crack of the whip but you always maintain one expierenced player in the central positions
If you were start with a player in central position like Alan dennehy if hes called up then you owe it to him to support him with connor sullivan and killan Burke as he would need expierence as collins young goalie would do.Burke I heard top form for ucc the other day.

Always when you pick any team you must have a visualisation for the future and maintain a core balance in the team.
This is a development process yes but you must create an excitement that they can develop too, start fifteen raw talented recruits won't create that culture.

There a few in what whats named that have huge talent but there a few imo that won't make it
The worry is all of last year panel has been retained, it said it in the paper bar Egan,hartnett correctly so and keane.
That's means haughney, Cian mccarthy and lawton are being carried again kilkenny wouldn't carry them.
With these three it seems jbm is not ruthless with some players and he has been with others so he has the quality to be
Again there's the perception by lawton, Roche, Murray, he's going for the fast stickwork type of hurler and I'm concerned in cork need hurlers with a stomach for battle not just hurling.

As for Hamilton in the harty cup Colm dinneen who has been sublime in three wins so far,has cork u16 panel development expierence, he's harty for two years more, so I'd be considering having him on extended cork minor panel in he could be key player next year.
Unlikely he will figure this year but cork must bring lad's like kilkenny and limerick with an eye on next year so they have expierence next year.
Even Without games in training it should bring them on leaps and bounds that both schools and club will benefit also if they improve.
He obviously has talent and potential if at 16 he performing cork consistently at harty cup this year.
Jeremy saich apparently had an outstanding game at midfield for colmans in the harty cup.
I said it last year this lad is a fine hurler,with huge potential,
If he keeps the form up they should have him on the extended minor panel with an eye to the next year imo.

Hard luck to rochestown they got beaten by flannans in the inaugural corn an brathair cholim taft u15 football final and credit to the echo for doing a match report on the game with both teams team sheet named and both teams given huge credit which the reporter said was one of the greatest games of the year.

Jason kabia who I mentioned other day played and dual player conor russell who imo top prospect in hurling but I think not sure he plays soccer as well played.
Rochestown doing fine in both codes the difficulty will be balancing both as harty getting so competive I feel dual codes in schools is going to suffer in time also.

That's what you want in the paper,underage games covered so we can be aware of possible future stars in all counties.

There is a huge opportunity to do a great preview of next Saturdays all ireland final u16 hurling final with good counsel.I hope they do a preview of it as midelton and good counsel two great teams deserve it.
The dean Ryan cup got no preview, munster gaa done bit,fair play panel listing was good but the preview itself was very short imo.

Gary neville you touched on a point that cuthbhert and hoonhan are loyal county board fans, you're spot on without opening old wounds the dog on the street knows those two were completely supported of board In 2008 strike.

Times moves on and time does heal however it clear as day some will always be looked after for their loyalty to the board.
The league will be interesting this year,some rude awakening above the in the north await when derry Tyrone, monaghan, donegal will expose the shambles the set up is.
Hostile environment, no cork support, a blanket defence but Tyrone, donegal, all have forwards to pick cork off, monaghan and derry to a lesser extent but both will be well coached particularly brilliant malachy o rourke who has a resilient abrasive monaghan that play with belief, cohesion, organised style of play.

I feel genuinely sorry for hodnett of carbery, cussen, canty in these lad's are out of their depth at this level but cuthbhert will play them and they will be exposed up the north.

Barry o Donovan had once again an excellent piece in the echo, if they put up a link I'll post it,regards club football in cork needs a revamp and he mentioned the hurling briefly but he's right, football isn't as bad as the hurling but must be looked at.

He raises points in he's article some choose to ignore.
I look forward to hes articles regards the football in winter.
I can see why Gary you say relgation could be good in a way but I sincerely hope we don't get relegated could imo set cork football back five years as division one you play elite teams,look at kerry they got a scare but stayed up as they treated Tyrone like a championship game.
Yes the cuthbhert fan club be saying Ah division two is competive blah, blah blah and not end of world bottom line is cork football needs division one status.
If cork got related it's no guarantee cuthbhert would go.
You see I get feeling cuthbhert actually is a resilient character in he won't walk away and will blame everything else and will want a second term.
Just look at Denis walsh two weeks ago saying I felt cork hurling in my time weren't that far away.
He is not being realistic imo the and sheer defiance of ignorance to results imo never crazes to amaze me with some.

Walsh even wanted a second Term
Sean mac was right cuthbhert will seek a second term.
He's seeing imo cork football as a journey.

.

Figsy32

Rightwing wrote: »

Let's call a spade a spade. Kilmallock's 1-32 has made a complete laughing stock of your analysis. Now, whether you know it has or hasn't is a seperate issue. Move on and learn from it. Case closed.

To be fair, that was after an extra 20 minutes of hurling against a team who were clearly out on their feet.

1-21 at full time which while good, isn't particularly spectacular.

Rightwing

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

No it has not in fact the full back line was exposed again.
You highlight and cherry pick part you want, clear as day I said I had concerns regards Cratloe tiredness

I admit totally sullivan surprised me with he's magnificent Seventh all credit due wonderful performance.
If he does that the next day huge bonus to ye
Sarsfields are not great in cork and Cratloe had dualism so I'm still unconvinced how good Kilmallock are.
Winning the all ireland will answer that

Fair enough, we'll see. I don't think any of the county champions from Munster were bad, in fact little between them, but whether they good enough to win the AI, I have my doubts but time will tell.