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Child Item

Aborting a Down Syndrome Twin at full term.

Brown Bomber

I've just been listening to a UK radio show and I was shocked to find out that when 1 one of the twins is diagnosed with potential downs an abortion will be offered to get rid of the "sick" twin. The problem is that an early abortion will put the "healthy" twin at risk so they need to carry out the abortion at close to full term at which stage he/she will be fully developed and there is a possibility that the aborted downs syndrome twin will come out alive and they would have to kill him/her outside the womb.

1) First of all is this the case? It sounds like a Third Reich horror story...
and 2) What are people's views on the morality of this?

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orubiru

conorhal wrote: »

Oh, a residual shred of humanity I suppose?

And yes, for the record, you can kill a baby if it suffers any foetal abnormality (including something as simple as a hare lip) up to 9 months in the UK, which is pretty disgusting.

Who told you this? Do you have a link or something to back it up?

I don't think that's true...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9548293/Mother-who-aborted-baby-in-final-week-of-pregnancy-jailed-for-eight-years.html

seventeen sheep

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I've just been listening to a UK radio show and I was shocked to find out that when 1 one of the twins is diagnosed with potential downs an abortion will be offered to get rid of the "sick" twin. The problem is that an early abortion will put the "healthy" twin at risk so they need to carry out the abortion at close to full term at which stage he/she will be fully developed and there is a possibility that the aborted downs syndrome twin will come out alive and they would have to kill him/her outside the womb.

1) First of all is this the case? It sounds like a Third Reich horror story...
and 2) What are people's views on the morality of this?

1) Is this the case? I don't know, I imagine it's not, but you're the one making the suggestion, surely you're the one who should provide some sort of back-up for it, instead of asking the rest of us to disprove what you've posted (possibly out of your own imagination, for all we know.)

2) I'll give my views when you provide a proper link to the story. However, I've often heard of "selective abortions" (where one/some embryos are terminated, but not others) occurring early in pregnancies, e.g. in cases of multiple births where carrying all to term is unviable, or where some of the foetuses are terminally ill. It happens all the time, and usually very early on in the pregnancy. I'd be surprised if you can find a valid link to support what you've just suggested.

orubiru

keano_afc wrote: »

Wow, I'm genuinely staggered.

Murder is fine folks, as long as it doesnt directly affect you, apparently. And 3 people agree with you.

Are we talking about murder or abortion here? They are different things and unless you are under 16 years old you should know that by now.

bear1

orubiru wrote: »

Are we talking about murder or abortion here? They are different things and unless you are under 16 years old you should know that by now.

We are talking about both. The opening OP says that if the child can't be aborted before birth then the birth will go ahead. At this point then the child would be murdered - it doesn't say murdered but that's how I see it.

Penny Tration

bear1 wrote: »

We are talking about both. The opening OP says that if the child can't be aborted before birth then the birth will go ahead. At this point then the child would be murdered - it doesn't say murdered but that's how I see it.

Except it's bollocks. It is legal to abort. It is not legal to murder the baby once it's been born.

[Deleted User]

bear1 wrote: »

We are talking about both. The opening OP says that if the child can't be aborted before birth then the birth will go ahead. At this point then the child would be murdered - it doesn't say murdered but that's how I see it.

Each to their own is what im saying.abortion for some,tiny american flags for others.
I never gave my opinion on it.
why?
because its none of business what other people want to do and it doesn't effect me in any way.

bear1

Jingle_Balls wrote: »

Except it's bollocks. It is legal to abort. It is not legal to murder the baby once it's been born.

Oh I agree, I was just saying that we talking about both.
It's the murder bit which I think is utter bollocks and absolutely disgusting if it's true.

Delirium

bear1 wrote: »

We are talking about both. The opening OP says that if the child can't be aborted before birth then the birth will go ahead. At this point then the child would be murdered - it doesn't say murdered but that's how I see it.

Murder is an illegal killing, so by definition murder can't ever be legal.

keano_afc

Jingle_Balls wrote: »

Except it's bollocks. It is legal to abort. It is not legal to murder the baby once it's been born.

The poster I quoted said it was fine to take the life of a baby born with down syndrome, as it didnt affect them. Thats murder.

Lemegeton

conorhal wrote: »

Oh, a residual shred of humanity I suppose?

And yes, for the record, you can kill a baby if it suffers any foetal abnormality (including something as simple as a hare lip) up to 9 months in the UK, which is pretty disgusting.

you are either ignorant or deliberately trying to mislead people.
The Law states you need 2 doctors to agree that there is a risk of SEVERE abnormality that would leave the child handicapped. there were some very rare cases in the UK where some unprofessional doctors stretched that law to include a cleft palette, and they were widely condemned.

[Deleted User]

Well I heard you're allowed murder babies after they're born AND get free prams for them and if you lose the pram it gets replaced even if there is no baby

kylith

conorhal wrote: »

Oh, a residual shred of humanity I suppose?

And yes, for the record, you can kill a baby if it suffers any foetal abnormality (including something as simple as a hare lip) up to 9 months in the UK, which is pretty disgusting.

Please watch your phrasing. The above makes it sound like it is legal to commit infanticide up to 9 months after birth, which is untrue.

Duggy747

When I was 12 my parents tried to have me aborted.

Nodin

bluewolf wrote: »

Well I heard you're allowed murder babies after they're born AND get free prams for them and if you lose the pram it gets replaced even if there is no baby

....and once you get 5 prams, you get a free car and a house with a satellite dish and sky sports in ALL THE ROOMS.

Packrat

Lemegeton wrote: »

you are either ignorant or deliberately trying to mislead people.
The Law states you need 2 doctors to agree that there is a risk of SEVERE abnormality that would leave the child handicapped. there were some very rare cases in the UK where some unprofessional doctors stretched that law to include a cleft palette, and they were widely condemned.

So here we get to it. Not only is it theoretically possible, but it's happened.

Now that wasn't so hard was it?

So these people were 'widely condemned' ? I take from your failure to mention it, that they weren't charged with or convicted of anything?

So it can and does happen without consequences. Thanks, that was all I needed to know.

A_Sober_Paddy

bluewolf wrote: »

Well I heard you're allowed murder babies after they're born AND get free prams for them and if you lose the pram it gets replaced even if there is no baby

Swans, Pike, Poles, Single Mothers, Free Mooney, Daily Fail, more Buzz words that sets AF's off:pac:

[Deleted User]

And a christmas bonus every christmas AND easter

leeroybrown

The OP is just trolling for the kind of anti-abortion reaction they want by posting a deliberately vague story that makes it sound the worst it can. When it gets enough steam going they'll come back and dogmatically argue every minor point of every post until anyone who disagrees leaves the thread to get away.

Brown Bomber

Grayson wrote: »

can we have a Link?

Yes. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02bgkjs

Grayson wrote: »

And an apology for bring the nazi's into a thread on the first post.

No.
Nothing to apologise for.

ChippingSodbury

bluewolf wrote: »

And a christmas bonus every christmas AND easter

That's just ridiculous: how could you get Christmas bonus at Easter?

[Deleted User]

ChippingSodbury wrote: »

That's just ridiculous: how could you get Christmas bonus at Easter?

EXACTLY. I hate those pc liberals :mad::mad::mad::mad:

[Deleted User]

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Yes. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02bgkjs

.

A family living on a traveller site in Central Bedfordshire say they are being threatened with violence after refusing to work 12 hour days for only 20 pounds.

Is it in that?

Brown Bomber

Jingle_Balls wrote: »

Except it's bollocks. It is legal to abort. It is not legal to murder the baby once it's been born.

So what happens to babies who survive an abortion?

Brown Bomber

bluewolf wrote: »

A family living on a traveller site in Central Bedfordshire say they are being threatened with violence after refusing to work 12 hour days for only 20 pounds.

Is it in that?

Is what in what?

Wossack

Brown Bomber wrote: »

So what happens to babies who survive an abortion?

theres an appeals form you can fill out for a refund

Grayson

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Yes. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02bgkjs

No.
Nothing to apologise for.

That link brings me to a recording of a BBC Radio 3 counties show

Iain investigates...A family living on a traveller site in Central Bedfordshire say they are being threatened with violence after refusing to work 12 hour days for only 20 pounds.

Stop using nazi references. It demeans everyone involved in a discussion, especially you (And Hitler)

Ave Sodalis

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Is what in what?

That's what your link says

I'm calling bullcrap. Does anyone really believe it after a line like this?
"there is a possibility that the aborted downs syndrome twin will come out alive and they would have to kill him/her outside the womb."

Firstly, if it was aborted, it wouldn't come out alive. Secondly, that's murder and that just isn't going to happen.

ChippingSodbury

bluewolf wrote: »

EXACTLY. I hate those pc liberals :mad::mad::mad::mad:

The Easter Bunny brings the Easter Bonus, Santy brings the Christmas Bonus. Do I need to explain myself further Dougal?

Brown Bomber

Jingle_Balls wrote: »

What's 'close to full tern?' iirc, abortions are only legal up to 24 weeks, not full term.
.

You are wrong. There is no legal time limit in the UK on aborting probable down syndrome infants.

I already knew this. What I am trying to ascertain if it's standard operating procedure when a woman wants to keep one twin and abort the other to wait until the late-term on the pregnancy to minimise the harm from the abortion on the "healthy" twin.

Lemegeton

Packrat wrote: »

So here we get to it. Not only is it theoretically possible, but it's happened.

Now that wasn't so hard was it?

So these people were 'widely condemned' ? I take from your failure to mention it, that they weren't charged with or convicted of anything?

So it can and does happen without consequences. Thanks, that was all I needed to know.

just because something has happened in extreme cases, does not make it the norm. conorhal made the claim that the UK "allows" for post 24 week abortion for any minor abnormality. i was merely showing that to be the gross misrepresentation it was.