ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE

listermint wrote: »

Do i need to get crayons to demonstrate how the term populist cannot be applied to politics. Politics is ALL ABOUT popularity.

Crayons will be no help because populism most certainly does have a particular (pejorative) meaning in politics, though you appear to be genuinely unfamiliar with it.

twowheelsgood wrote: »

I think you are right. Alas that is history. But I think these discussions show why populism is so, well, popular in Irish politics.

And the turmoil of the last few years has shown, for those who look, how disastrous this can be.

Populism is not the only bad thing in Irish politics.
It goes hand in hand with cronyism. Equal and opposite.

tayto lover wrote: »

Populism is not the only bad thing in Irish politics.
It goes hand in hand with cronyism. Equal and opposite.

Cronyism probably annoys people more but populism has been far more destructive for us.

twowheelsgood wrote: »

Cronyism probably annoys people more but populism has been far more destructive for us.

It's debatable.

twowheelsgood wrote: »

why did we accept such a bad deal?

why did certain people get jobs in europe and why are certain people in line for them when their time in government here is up?

im willing to bet the two are related.

tayto lover wrote: »

It's debatable.

I would say that our delightful debt of €200 billion is in great measure a consequence of a number of populist decision made by politicians over the years. It would take a far bit of cronyism to do that kind of damage.

DamagedTrax wrote: »

why did certain people get jobs in europe and why are certain people in line for them when their time in government here is up?
im willing to bet the two are related.

Ridiculous

twowheelsgood wrote: »

Ridiculous

how have you come to your beautifully succinct conclusion?

you think hogan would have ever been even thought about, had he not done his euro masters' bidding? they wouldnt have let that bloated oaf shine their shoes unless he brought something to the table.

gladrags

papu wrote: »

Perhaps ask them ? They have a twitter

You won't get a straight answer.

twowheelsgood wrote: »

I would say that our delightful debt of €200 billion is in great measure a consequence of a number of populist decision made by politicians over the years. It would take a far bit of cronyism to do that kind of damage.

I would think that cronyism has played a major part in the mistrust of the people towards this present Govt. After all they were the people who promised to stop cronyism after ousting FF. It has however increased alarmingly and is partly the reason why so many have taken to the streets. It could yet cause quite a lot of damage especially to FG.

DamagedTrax wrote: »

how have you come to your beautifully succinct conclusion?

you think hogan would have ever been even thought, about had he not done his euro masters' bidding? they wouldnt have let that bloated oaf shine their shoes unless he brought something to the table.

You do realize that the Troika came to town under Fianna Fáil's watch. And that Hogan is in Fine Gael?

tayto lover wrote: »

I would think that cronyism has played a major part in the mistrust of the people towards this present Govt.

I think people don't give a toss about cronyism if the economy is going well. It didn't bother us in the slightest what FF were getting up to while the tiger was roaring. We only got all troubled about ethics with the economy tanked.

Same with FG. If there was no need to impose additional austere measures a lot of the stuff that is going on in their ranks would only attract criticism from a minority.

twowheelsgood wrote: »

You do realize that the Troika came to town under Fianna Fáil's watch. And that Hogan is in Fine Gael?

you do realise that the troika couldn't give a monkeys scrotum about what party anyone is from... as if it even matters.

hogan did what he was told and got rewarded.

http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

twowheelsgood wrote: »

I think people don't give a toss about cronyism if the economy is going well. It didn't bother us in the slightest what FF were getting up to while the tiger was roaring. We only got all troubled about ethics with the economy tanked.

Same with FG. If there was no need to impose additional austere measures a lot of the stuff that is going on in their ranks would only attract criticism from a minority.

The views of many of the protesters I have marched with would tend to differ from that.

Creative Juices

DamagedTrax wrote: »

you do realise that the troika couldn't give a monkeys scrotum about what party anyone is from... as if it even matters.

hogan did what he was told and got rewarded.

So the bad deal we got where we got saddled with the bank debts, was agreed by FF ... so that a political opponent in FG would get a nice job?

Beyond ridiculous!

dxhound2005

http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/

This one is very pretty

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

twowheelsgood wrote: »

So the bad deal we got where we got saddled with the bank debts, was agreed by FF ... so that a political opponent in FG would get a nice job?

Beyond ridiculous!

i think you misunderstood what i was saying..

FF had nothing to do with the fact that enda will probably go to europe either. what i meant was that bad deals seem to go hand in hand with future european jobs. FF arent in power to reap the tailend benefits.. but the party that continue with the austerity program most certainly will.

tayto lover wrote: »

The views of many of the protesters I have marched with would tend to differ from that.

That's what they would say and I think that's what they genuinely believe.

But riddle me this. Why was "blank cheque" Bertie Ahern of the early and mid nineties the most popular politician of his generation whereas "I won it on a horse" Bertie was a total hate figure.

Simples. The economy roared in the first era and went down the toilet in the second.

Our economy will recover (eventually). We still produce plenty of dodgy politicians (guaranteed) but you watch how little people care about their dodginess, as long as the economy is going well.

For better or worse, it is, always was, always will be, the economy stupid.

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i think you misunderstood what i was saying..

FF had nothing to do with the fact that enda will probably go to europe either. what i meant was that bad deals seem to go hand in hand with future european jobs. FF arent in power to reap the tailend benefits.. but the party that continue with the austerity program most certainly will.

The also went hand in hand with full moons. :rolleyes:

Fianna Fail accepted a very bad deal from the Troika because there was no other on offer. Alas, it was no more conspiratorial than that.

twowheelsgood wrote: »

Fianna Fail accepted a very bad deal from the Troika because there was no other on offer. Alas, it was no more conspiratorial than that.

by definition a conspiracy is "an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons"

it most definitely was a conspiracy as it adheres to at least 2 of the set standards.. but if you want to argue with the dictionary, you're more than welcome.

DamagedTrax wrote: »

by definition a conspiracy is "an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons"

it most definitely was a conspiracy as it adheres to at least 2 of the set standards.. but if you want to argue with the dictionary, you're more than welcome.

Which two?

twowheelsgood wrote: »

Which two?

take your pick.

dxhound2005

DamagedTrax wrote: »

by definition a conspiracy is "an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons"

it most definitely was a conspiracy as it adheres to at least 2 of the set standards.. but if you want to argue with the dictionary, you're more than welcome.

Here's a couple of definitions for conspiracy theory.

1.
a theory that explains an event as being the result of a plot by a covert group or organization; a belief that a particular unexplained event was caused by such a group.

2.
the idea that many important political events or economic and social trends are the products of secret plots that are largely unknown to the general public.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Here's a couple of definitions for conspiracy theory.

1.
a theory that explains an event as being the result of a plot by a covert group or organization; a belief that a particular unexplained event was caused by such a group.

2.
the idea that many important political events or economic and social trends are the products of secret plots that are largely unknown to the general public.

thats nice. but i'll stick to the actual dictionary definition of what a conspiracy is.

again, you're welcome to argue your point but i think ive got mr collins on my side on this one.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Here's a couple of definitions for conspiracy theory.

1.
a theory that explains an event as being the result of a plot by a covert group or organization; a belief that a particular unexplained event was caused by such a group.

2.
the idea that many important political events or economic and social trends are the products of secret plots that are largely unknown to the general public.

You didn't retract that post where you deemed the majority of protesters in Dundalk as belonging to a republican group and suggesting that they read a statement from the podium. Be a man now DX.

DamagedTrax wrote: »

take your pick.

Surreptitious? Maybe.

The rest? Don't fit at all.

Stargate

tayto lover wrote: »

You didn't retract that post where you deemed the majority of protesters in Dundalk as belonging to a republican group and suggesting that they read a statement from the podium. Be a man now DX.

Been waiting on too , never going to happen i'd say .