nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

The future of RTE Radio 1 LW

The Cush

Announced this morning - http://www.rte.ie/about/en/press-office/press-releases/2014/0923/645685-rte-radio-1-moves-from-longwave-transmission/

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/static/2014/0821/638554-stay-tuned/
http://static.rasset.ie/documents/radio1/rte-radio-1-staytuned.pdf

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

Sam Russell

Are they posponing the closure or perhaps revising the decision to close?

DrPatrickBarry

Gutted by this decision as living in Manchester 252 has been excellent in the car while driving to/from work.

I heard it has been postponed for a while delighted to hear that.

Antenna

Cork_chick_94 wrote: »

head of rte radio Jim
Jennings on the today show

I listened to the interview.

Mr Jennings said "The BBC are also moving away from it" (LW) - the BBC have said it will close at some point in the future - but no date has been set, it could be over 10 years time. BBC Radio 4 on 198kHz is staying put for the foreseeable future.

He asserted RTE is available on DAB in parts of NI with no RTE FM coverage - FALSE.

regarding FM coverage - he says even UK broadcasters have issues in parts of Antrim - which is probably one of the reasons why BBC R. Ulster still has 1341kHz MW/AM in addition to FM.

Its also worth noting that numerous lightning strike damage last week left many people in the south of this country without broadband service for an extended period (over a day+), it just goes to show how online is more 'fragile' than traditional radio.

formerly scottish paddy

The Longwave service should be turned into an "international" programme with no advertising and with a selection from across all Irish radio. The costs should be met by the Dept. Foreign Affairs and the service available on the net and on satellite in countries with a large Irish expat community.

Richard

formerly scottish paddy wrote: »

The Longwave service should be turned into an "international" programme with no advertising and with a selection from across all Irish radio. The costs should be met by the Dept. Foreign Affairs and the service available on the net and on satellite in countries with a large Irish expat community.

Actually why couldn't it take UK advertising? It wouldn't cover the cost but might get more listeners if people knew it was there.

Richard

I wonder how much a mono slot on UK dab (there's lots of free slots on local multiplexes) or Freeview TV would cost.

The Cush

Richard wrote: »

I wonder how much a mono slot on UK dab (there's lots of free slots on local multiplexes) or Freeview TV would cost.

Have a look at Arqiva reference offer for DAB radio here - http://www.arqiva.ie/documentation/reference-offers/

petronius

I notice some more discussion in the media about this.
The more I read about it the more RTE LW 252 is a valuable resource for the Irish in Britain - and this should be maintained until there is a suitable viable alternative - it also seems to be the poor relation since on the RTE website there is little if any details about how to receive it
And there is areas of the north were since the closing of medium wave, LW 252 is the only RTE service available to them on a radio.
As part of the Good Friday Agreement there should be some obligation on RTE to ensure that the whole of Ireland is covered by its broadcasts.
DRM sounds like an improvement and possible replacement, but unless there is widespread access to DRM receivers, and there is an uptake (which i cant see) by the elderly irish living in the UK who are not Internet users, or Satellite TV subscribers and who listen to the radio on a radio or in their car then this service should be maintained and improved.

winston_1

At the end of the day if people choose to live in a foreign country and no longer pay taxes to the old country they cannot expect the old country to provide them services such as radio. RTE are under no obligation to provide radio to Britain or even NI. (The good Friday agreement did not include radio).

Digifriendly

winston_1 wrote: »

At the end of the day if people choose to live in a foreign country and no longer pay taxes to the old country they cannot expect the old country to provide them services such as radio. RTE are under no obligation to provide radio to Britain or even NI. (The good Friday agreement did not include radio).

While what you say is no doubt true this would still be a retrograde step and hugely unpopular. The GFA maybe did not include radio but why then is RNAG available on Freeview in NI?

Thurston?

Digifriendly wrote: »

... why then is RNAG available on Freeview in NI?

Same reason that TG4 comes 1st in the TV selection.

Sam Russell

winston_1 wrote: »

At the end of the day if people choose to live in a foreign country and no longer pay taxes to the old country they cannot expect the old country to provide them services such as radio. RTE are under no obligation to provide radio to Britain or even NI. (The good Friday agreement did not include radio).

Taxes are not everything. We owe those who left home because there was nothing here for them, and many who left, did so with a heavy heart. Why are so many Irish songs those of the emigrant longing for home?

It is a small cost for RTE to keep it going, and it would cost little to make it more than just RTE Radio 1. It could be turned into a channel that we might want to listen to by choice. If it is to be aimed at a diaspora audience, then get them to participate in it.

munchkin_utd

winston_1 wrote: »

At the end of the day if people choose to live in a foreign country and no longer pay taxes to the old country they cannot expect the old country to provide them services such as radio. RTE are under no obligation to provide radio to Britain or even NI. (The good Friday agreement did not include radio).

RTÉ are under an obligation to the irish abroad by law.

The Broadcasting Act 2009 requires that RTÉ entertain, inform and educate and have the character of a public service.
RTÉ’s broadcasting services must be offered free-to-air to the whole community and to Irish communities abroad, in so far as is reasonably practical.

http://www.rte.ie/documents/about/rte-pss-2010v1.pdf
and the law itself:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/pdf/2009/en.act.2009.0018.pdf
the oblogation to Northern ireland is contained within their public service obligation to the island of Ireland, beyond that theres an obligation "to Irish communities outside the island of Ireland". A distinct difference in the 2.

you can argue whats "reasonably practical", but you are plain wrong in saying RTÉ have no obligation to the irish abroad.

winston_1

munchkin_utd wrote: »

RTÉ are under an obligation to the irish abroad by law.

http://www.rte.ie/documents/about/rte-pss-2010v1.pdf
and the law itself:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/pdf/2009/en.act.2009.0018.pdf
the oblogation to Northern ireland is contained within their public service obligation to the island of Ireland, beyond that theres an obligation "to Irish communities outside the island of Ireland". A distinct difference in the 2.

you can argue whats "reasonably practical", but you are plain wrong in saying RTÉ have no obligation to the irish abroad.

I like the bit about free to air when Irish TV is subscription on Sky even within Ireland. What a farce!

TAFKAlawhec

In the absence of an international service like the BBC World Service, Deutsche Welle etc. RTÉ Radio 1 is about the closest Irish ex-pats have to a "voice from home". Most European countries have some sort of radio or television service aimed at either their ex-pats or to a common nation of peoples in a neighbouring country.

Also RTÉ, and Radio Éireann before it, have always by virtue sought to cover all 32 counties of Ireland with its domestic services where practical. The location of the Clermont Carn & Holywell Hill transmitter sites are not a coincidence.

petronius

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

In the absence of an international service like the BBC World Service, Deutsche Welle etc. RTÉ Radio 1 is about the closest Irish ex-pats have to a "voice from home". Most European countries have some sort of radio or television service aimed at either their ex-pats or to a common nation of peoples in a neighbouring country.

Also RTÉ, and Radio Éireann before it, have always by virtue sought to cover all 32 counties of Ireland with its domestic services where practical. The location of the Clermont Carn & Holywell Hill transmitter sites are not a coincidence.

I agree - there should have been and still should be an RTE World, RTE International, or Radio Ireland, service, aimed at the ex-pat community in the UK mainly and effectively RTE LW 252 has provided that service being a connection with Ireland for many especially elderly ex-pats.
RTE should be looking at improving the service to this community and expanding it and not cutting it.

Long Wave is not ideal, but since the cutting of the Medium Wave service, it has been valuable reading all of Ireland (especially areas where there is poor or no FM coverage) and into the UK and across into northern europe.
I was on holidays in Britanny and Normandy and hired a car with LW (France still use LW quite a bit) and ended up listening to Joe Duffy (I know...) travelling between villages.

Sure DAB, DRM and Satellite radio or whatever are better sound quality but until this technology is widely available at reasonable prices and taken up by the ex-pat community, dropping a service like LW 252 is betraying the Irish Communities in the UK, and in the North.

I hope the petition https://www.change.org/p/rte-don-t-cut-off-the-irish-in-britain is listened to by RTE and the government, and https://www.facebook.com/SaveRTELW252 gets people to voice their concerns and let it be known

petronius

I note that from the Herald yesterday that RTE state that even though they postponed the closure, they are going to close it, and that they will use the extra few months to tell people who use the service to use other services.
They closed Medium wave 6 years ago telling people to use FM, and if you were outside this coverage, sure use LW252. Now they are telling people who avail of the long wave service, in the north of ireland and britain to listen to it on the internet etc., ignoring the fact that the group who use it are not the internet generation and unlikely to be, and not users of DAB even if there was such a service in the North East of Ireland, or indeed in the UK.
They are saying if your in the UK and listen to RTE on long wave, and dont have the internet or satellite the tough luck!

realistic anorak

petronius wrote: »

I note that from the Herald yesterday that RTE state that even though they postponed the closure, they are going to close it, and that they will use the extra few months to tell people who use the service to use other services.
They closed Medium wave 6 years ago telling people to use FM, and if you were outside this coverage, sure use LW252. Now they are telling people who avail of the long wave service, in the north of ireland and britain to listen to it on the internet etc., ignoring the fact that the group who use it are not the internet generation and unlikely to be, and not users of DAB even if there was such a service in the North East of Ireland, or indeed in the UK.
They are saying if your in the UK and listen to RTE on long wave, and dont have the internet or satellite the tough luck!

I get the argument for keeping longwave but i never got the argument for keeping both mw and lw. Tansmitting the same radio station on every waveband was a waste of public money. RTE do seem very keen to get off lw, What Is the site at clarkstown worth ? Are they looking to cash in on growing property prices in leinster i wonder ?

SPDUB

petronius wrote: »

I note that from the Herald yesterday that RTE state that even though they postponed the closure, they are going to close it, !

They have already taken it off the list of frequencies that RTE broadcast on that is listed on their website

realistic anorak

They may have withdrawn their plans to close lw.., They no longer cut into the Angelus saying this service will close down on blah blah blah

watty

RTE management have proven they do not listen, they care nothing for PSB mandate or consumer, they like BBC are enamoured with Twitter, DAB, Web streaming etc.

DAB and Celebrity Presenters are a waste of money. The MW should never have been scrapped.

It was inevitable that when Digital Radio Mondail failed to take off they would kill LW as they did MW as a cost saving.

Internet and especially Mobile internet can't ever replace National Broadcast. Nor can Satellite or Cable.

FM can't do full coverage. AM (MW or LW) can. DAB in UK would need x6 as many masts as at present to give FM coverage.

I'm not going to even engage with RTE anymore. They are wreckers. As are Comreg and DCNER.

Digital TV makes sense, Digital Radio doesn't. Mobile can only support about 10,000 listeners, if NO OTHER traffic and phone calls. MORONS.

ardmacha

watty wrote: »

RTE management have proven they do not listen, they care nothing for PSB mandate or consumer, they like BBC are enamoured with Twitter, DAB, Web streaming etc.

DAB and Celebrity Presenters are a waste of money. The MW should never have been scrapped.

It was inevitable that when Digital Radio Mondail failed to take off they would kill LW as they did MW as a cost saving.

Internet and especially Mobile internet can't ever replace National Broadcast. Nor can Satellite or Cable.

FM can't do full coverage. AM (MW or LW) can. DAB in UK would need x6 as many masts as at present to give FM coverage.

I'm not going to even engage with RTE anymore. They are wreckers. As are Comreg and DCNER.

Digital TV makes sense, Digital Radio doesn't. Mobile can only support about 10,000 listeners, if NO OTHER traffic and phone calls. MORONS.

Well said.

watty

Full DAB coverage would cost MORE than FM and AM together. If it was real full coverage.

Celeb overpriced presenters must be costing nearly as much as LW TX.

Also DAB is NOT green for receivers, using x6 to x20 (headphones) power consumption per receiver. There never ever will be the DAB coverage that FM has. FM isn't enough coverage.

A PSB has to attempt 100% coverage. That's why UK has freesat, to cover the 1.5% that Freeview doesn't cover. BBC admitted they need LW & MW as FM coverage isn't enough and DAB (which is FAR better in UK) is 5% to 6% less. To fill in "black spots" in Digital Radio (of ANY kind) turns out to take hugely more low power repeaters than envisaged.

Also SFN DAB (or any other Digital system) is NO USE at all for Local and Community Radio. It favours a National Broadcaster and inherently more expensive than local FM.

Despite what mis-informed bean counters in Germany, Ireland and UK say, properly planned AM is still the cheapest way to give 100% national coverage. Receiver power consumption is such that a 4 x D cell radio would last a year in an emergency situation, or 30 days at 12 hours a day on AM. A AM/FM radio of equivalent quality to a €60 DAB set is under €15. It's easier to tune and operate. Many DAB sets are impossible without manual.
Also easiest for portable / mobile use is a scale and manual tuning knob (this can be simulated with LCD). A preset only radio never has enough presets and becomes awkward to reprogram. People DO listen to Radio away from Car or TV set/Living room.

What works for TV in terms of a User interface (or even a car Radio) is USELESS for a general purpose portable radio.

In any national disaster scenario even ONE AM transmitter on a generator can communicate with everyone.

Digital TV can give over 500:1 compression compared to Analogue Video, Widescreen, HD etc. Digital radio at FM or CD quality only gives a 5:1 compression! Other countries to provide more stations are extending FM band. The FM Band is no use for Mobile. It has no value to sell off.

The AM bands have even less spectrum value than FM.

Comreg's agenda is to sell ALL TV band and have only Cable/ Internet/fibre /Satellite. They care nothing about AM and FM bands as they make no money from them.

Streaming one TV channel on Internet to Everyone would cost more than LW or a three transmitter MW network. You'll notice that any RTE or BBC streaming falls over on popular events, even with a fraction of Broadcast numbers. The more people you stream to, the more it costs. Broadcast is a fixed cost no matter how many listen.

STB.

watty wrote: »

In any national disaster scenario even ONE AM transmitter on a generator can communicate with everyone.

For that reason alone I am quite surprised that the close down is a goer. In the event of a National Emergency it was the only choice.

Given the fact that RTE used LW as the safety net excuse to shut down the MW TX's, it is inexplicable that they are now dumping LW altogether with no long range broadcast alternative, other than internet streams. Of course its the numbers game, or at least thats how its being sold. I havent see the figures, but I am sure the running costs of the LW TX could have been fully justified right now especially given the MW services no longer exist. Unfortunately the PSB is being run by accountants, PSB values are out the window now and everything is being pared back.

Of course the timing is perfect as the bombardment of Water Charges news, cloud such moves and no one will kick up until its switched off come January next.

watty

Internet is very fragile. First to go in a problem. Also DOES NOT SCALE. It's only cheap for provider when a minority use it. Nor is it portable/mobile (Capacity of Mobile Internet only allows about 0.1% of listeners or less!)

[Deleted User]

watty wrote: »

Internet is very fragile. First to go in a problem. Also DOES NOT SCALE. It's only cheap for provider when a minority use it. Nor is it portable/mobile (Capacity of Mobile Internet only allows about 0.1% of listeners or less!)

And as I said in another thread, not suitable when on the move. I was on a bus a few weeks ago and as soon as I left Dublin city on the M1, my phone dropped back to 2G/EDGE and the stream wouldn't rebuffer due to lack of bandwidth.

realistic anorak

STB. wrote: »

For that reason alone I am quite surprised that the close down is a goer. In the event of a National Emergency it was the only choice.

Given the fact that RTE used LW as the safety net excuse to shut down the MW TX's, it is inexplicable that they are now dumping LW altogether with no long range broadcast alternative, other than internet streams. Of course its the numbers game, or at least thats how its being sold. I havent see the figures, but I am sure the running costs of the LW TX could have been fully justified right now especially given the MW services no longer exist. Unfortunately the PSB is being run by accountants, PSB values are out the window now and everything is being pared back.

Of course the timing is perfect as the bombardment of Water Charges news, cloud such moves and no one will kick up until its switched off come January next.

Tullamore is fully intact tho and still gets all the Maintenance needed for a mast of that size. It could be put back on the air tonight really if needed.

dxhound2005

STB. wrote: »

Of course the timing is perfect as the bombardment of Water Charges news, cloud such moves and no one will kick up until its switched off come January next.

So RTE picked the timing to coincide with coverage of Irish Water? There has been coverage of Irish Water daily for months.

You know about it, I do and everyone on this forum does. LW listeners have had the first part of news bulletins replaced with the closedown announcement daily up until recently. Regular LW listeners who can't get FM could hardly have escaped hearing the information. And if they want to mount an Irish Water type protest movement there is nothing stopping them. Why would they wait until the shutdown happens to "kick up"?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

winston_1

watty wrote: »

Other countries to provide more stations are extending FM band.

Which countries? Where is the extension, not upwards presumably as that is air traffic control?