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The Sub 3 Support Thread

--amadeus--

Not sure if this is a viable thread or not....

There tends to be a lot of support for newbies and improver's (the two mentored DCM threads, the Tri Novice thread for example) but less of a community vibe as you move up the pace. I know a lot of us read each others logs but I'll read 10 for every one I comment in and I'm sure others are the same.

And I know that there are a few of us aiming at sub 3 this autumn. I'm taking a crack at it in Amsterdam, Village Runner and Peckham in Berlin, SunGod in Dublin. I'm sure SloggerJogger is going to take another pop at it as well having come so close. And of course we have a lot of runners who have already gone sub 3 (and faster). And the Sub 3 thread on RunnersWorld is very busy and popular.

So here we go - if it works it works, if it sinks it sinks!

And to start - I'm a little concerned about my weekly mileage. This week is pretty poor (I'll be lucky to get mid 30s) and I've been doing 40s for the last couple of weeks with the intention of doing 6 - 8 weeks of 50 - 60 mpw as teh basis of my attempt.

Do you think that's enough? What sort of mileage are you all doing and planning?

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ThebitterLemon

ploughon wrote: »

Thanks ice9,
Amsterdam and Berlin sound good.

Does anyone know anything about Rotterdam?
or any other Spring Marathons people would recommend??

There is always the option of another sufferfest in Connamara, at least you know what to expect in Conn and it never disappoints on that score!!

Seville in Feb, runners race, very flat. Usually reasonable weather.

Barcelona in middle of March

TbL

ice9

if you can't get away I think there is also Belfast (have not done this one) and Limerick.
I did Limerick in 2013. tbh I found it very hard but I was still building up a base at that point. The elevation gain is less than Dublin but not by much.

this was the route
http://www.strava.com/activities/52513702

Bahanaman

Toblerone1978 wrote: »

Based on some of your posts, I would consider us to be at similar levels. I had a rub of the green on Monday going for the sub 3 and you had some bad luck going for the sub 3, particularly with the Waterford marathon. But the training for the last two marathons can still be used as a strong base. For what its worth, I think that a sub 3 is definitely in yours and another good training cycle + the base you have from this year (e.g. compare your base coming into 2014 vs 2015!) should achieve this.

That said, you had two marathons in short enough successions so if you feel like anything like me, I'd be making sure to let the body recover fully, over a good few weeks, before taking on another marathon training cycle. Perhaps consider another training programme, just to mix it up a bit?

Yeah I think it might be time to take a bit of a break from the heavy stuff alright. A good recovery period is needed with maybe a few shorter races or a venture into the mad world of cross country! I'll see how the land lies in the new year and take it from there. I see you're a Kilkenny man, not too far away myself. I do the track sessions in there every week!
Btw, what an outstanding result you had yourself! I think it was more than a bit of luck that got you in under the 3 hr mark. You're training must have gone brilliantly. To achieve your goal in those conditions...one word- Respect!

viperlogic

ice9 wrote: »

if you can't get away I think there is also Belfast (have not done this one) and Limerick.
I did Limerick in 2013. tbh I found it very hard but I was still building up a base at that point. The elevation gain is less than Dublin but not by much.

this was the route
http://www.strava.com/activities/52513702

Limerick is not a fast course if chasing a PB/sub-3, ran it this year. Unfortunately one of the worst I've done, literately no support out on course, rolling pulls, few loop back sections and poor scenery.

ice9

viperlogic wrote: »

Limerick is not a fast course if chasing a PB/sub-3, ran it this year. Unfortunately one of the worst I've done, literately no support out on course, rolling pulls, few loop back sections and poor scenery.

Yes I would have to agree with all of that. Just couldn't be sure about how difficult it was because I was not very well trained for it. Sounds like we are scratching limerick off the list !

yaboya1

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Seville in Feb, runners race, very flat. Usually reasonable weather.

I second this.
Also ridiculously good value. €30 if you sign up early enough.

ooter

After much deliberation I finally decided last Saturday that I wasn't going to line up with the 3:00 pacers on monday,my plan was to go through half way in as close to 1:32:30 as possible and if I was feeling good at that stage to try and blast a 1:27:30 second half or as close to it as possible.
Went through half way in 1:32:47 but the climb from dolphin's barn to walkinstown put an end to any hope of sub 3,I really struggled over these 2 miles with the combination of wind and hill.maybe 3:05 could be on the cards but pretty soon that was off the agenda too. Around mile 18 the 3:10 pacers were on my back and it really shocked me,I dug in for a couple of miles but eventually lost them coming up roebuck hill which nearly killed me,by far my slowest mile of the whole race.at this stage all that was on my mind was sub 3:15 and a gfa for london,it was a battle all the way but I got there with just under a minute to spare,absolutely delighted.
In hindsight I'm glad I didn't go out with the 3 hour pacers cos I wouldn't have even got the sub 3:15 and I would've been pretty devastated to be honest.
A lot done,more to do as Bertie once said,I'd love to go sub 3 hour one day but I'm not getting any younger so who knows..

TFBubendorfer

ooter wrote: »

A lot done,more to do as Bertie once said,I'd love to go sub 3 hour one day but I'm not getting any younger so who knows..

Been there, done that. I even had a marathon where Roebuck Road killed any lingering hopes of a sub-3, so I do know what that feels like.

It took me a staggering 15 marathons to go sub-3 and I was 41 when I finally managed it. I have improved further since, so age is neither a problem nor an excuse.

Keep at it and you'll get there.

Oh, and sorry for dropping you at Roebuck :rolleyes:

PaulieYifter

^^ What he said - took me 11 marathons and age 41 too

Don't let age put you off at all.

Plodman

I broke 3 hours for the first time this year at 39 after pretty much a 2 year break from running. I would hope to go faster again next year and pretty sure I can. Don't think age matters as much once you train sensibly and give your body time to recover from hard sessions. Most of my running was easy slow miles at 7:45 to 8 min mile pace which kept me fresh for tempo runs and intervals. Only did one 12 mile run at MP. Don't believe in expending the energy in training. Keep MP for the race itself. Others may disagree but it worked for me and kept me fresh which is important as the legs get older!!!

Netwerk Errer

Booyaaaa!! Got great news this evening. I don't have any ligament damage:). It turned out to be just a strained sartorius. I know I said I wouldn't run another marathon for 10 years but I'm already getting overwhelming dirty thoughts about making another attempt at sub-3 in the spring. Tbh, I was and still am massively disappointed with Monday. I have to have another go.

My coach is going to kill me if I tell him I'm going to run another marathon. God damn my neurotic compulsions!:D

A P

I have a spare copy of the 2nd edition of "Advanced Marathoning" by Pfitzinger & Douglas if anyone wants it. It might aid a sub-3 effort. First come first served - I'm happy to send it to whoever posts first in this thread that they want it.

Netwerk Errer

A P wrote: »

I have a spare copy of the 2nd edition of "Advanced Marathoning" by Pfitzinger & Douglas if anyone wants it. It might aid a sub-3 effort. First come first served - I'm happy to send it to whoever posts first in this thread that they want it.

That would be sweet. I'll take it!:)

A P

Ha - that was quick! PM sent.

ooter

the boys on marathon talk (tom and tony) spoke about the first time they both went sub 3 hour 10 years ago in the latest episode,interesting stuff.
i honestly think if i'd stayed with the 3:10 pacers from the start i'd have bagged a sub 3:10 on monday but i'd be asking myself now what might have been if i'd gone out quicker,at least i know now that sub 3 is just not there yet and i need to work harder for next time.

ploughon

Ooter,
I checked out that Marathon Talk podcast today, as you say, "interesting stuff", thanks.

They make the sub 3 sound very doable, as far as I can remember, down to consistency, and sticking with and believing in your plan...plus I think it was a 2 year journey for both of them.

So we have to just stick with it

ploughon

Hi Folks,

just wondering what training plans people are doing or planning to do for the Spring sub 3 campaign??

viperlogic

ploughon wrote: »

Hi Folks,

just wondering what training plans people are doing or planning to do for the Spring sub 3 campaign??

Would highly recommend P&D 55-70 mile program. It got me the sub 3 last month

ooter

ploughon wrote: »

Hi Folks,

just wondering what training plans people are doing or planning to do for the Spring sub 3 campaign??

not doing a spring marathon but considering going up to p+d 55-70 mile plan for DCM 15.

Bahanaman

No spring marathon for me but I'd recommend having a look at the plans on the BAA website. Nearly got me there this year. Not the plan's fault!!

yaboya1

viperlogic wrote: »

Would highly recommend P&D 55-70 mile program. It got me the sub 3 last month

I also used this plan (last 8 weeks) and managed a sub 3. Although I followed it to the letter, I think sometimes you can learn more by reading logs of other runners on the forum (sub 3, faster or even some who just missed out).

I know from personal experience having read through a few of the latter that I felt a crucial factor was training for a faster time than 2:59:59. This allows a little cushion in case everything doesn't go exactly to plan on the day (which it rarely does in the marathon). When I was growing up, my dad always used to say "Circumstances rule", and in no place is this more true than the marathon. An unplanned toilet break, abnormal weather conditions etc. will cost you more than one second, which gives you no wiggle room on 2:59:59. Have a look through a few logs and learn from them. I was given very good advice on my own log recently about devising my own personal plan. After all, P&D etc may be good, but it's a generic plan aimed at millions of people and no one person's body is the same. See what you like/don't like, what worked/didn't work and then decide what sort of plan/approach suits you best. At the end of the day, nobody knows your body better than yourself.

summit2summit

Hi boards, on June 18th I started a sub 3 marathon plan for the Dublin marathon next October. Im starting off with three weeks of 30 mpw at PMP +1 minute and from week four onwards, I plan to introduce more miles and a variation of running, ie LSR's, intervals etc..

Anyway, I just had one question before all the hard work starts...

I cycle to work 5 days a week which consists of 2x8 miles X 5 days a week. Total ~80 miles per week or 5 hours on the bike.

Is this too much cycling to try and fit on top of a sub 3 plan or will it actually be beneficial to it?

Thanks in advance.

S2S

Clearlier

summit2summit wrote: »

Hi boards, on June 18th I started a sub 3 marathon plan for the Dublin marathon next October. Im starting off with three weeks of 30 mpw at PMP +1 minute and from week four onwards, I plan to introduce more miles and a variation of running, ie LSR's, intervals etc..

Anyway, I just had one question before all the hard work starts...

I cycle to work 5 days a week which consists of 2x8 miles X 5 days a week. Total ~80 miles per week or 5 hours on the bike.

Is this too much cycling to try and fit on top of a sub 3 plan or will it actually be beneficial to it?

Thanks in advance.

S2S

The cycling will probably be neither here nor there if you've been doing it for a while and it doesn't take a lot out of you. Mildly beneficial I would have said.

I do wonder about your plan for Dublin though. Have you picked it up from somewhere?

summit2summit

Clearlier wrote: »

I do wonder about your plan for Dublin though. Have you picked it up from somewhere?

Thanks. As for the plan, I just got it off a mate who got it from a club he ran with a few years back. It contained plans for sub 3 and sub 3.5

Clearlier

summit2summit wrote: »

Thanks. As for the plan, I just got it off a mate who got it from a club he ran with a few years back. It contained plans for sub 3 and sub 3.5

It sounds like a different approach to what I've come across before. I'd be be interested to find out how you get on.

ploughon

Hi Folks,

Posting here for two reasons...

Firstly to give this brilliant thread a bump, there is so much great information here.

Secondly, I'm still searching for/working towards my sub 3, and wondering if there is anyone in the same boat at the minute.

I got myself down to a 3.06 this year, so it seems a lot more achievable now.

Just looking at plans and races for the New Year, anyone else got a sub 3 on the brain??

Bahanaman

P&D 55-70 plan is great. Tough but doable. The 15 milers midweek really set you up both mentally and physically.

ploughon

Hi Bahanaman,

thanks for your reply.

I used that plan for my last marathon, but the midweek semi long runs were the ones I found the most difficult to do, mostly down to time pressure with work. I could only get in 11 milers (in the morning before work), that is one area I will have to work on next time around.
The MP runs early on in the programme were a bit of a shock to the system too!
I guess that tells me I need to work more on MP runs and those mid week slr's.

Gavlor

ploughon wrote: »

Hi Folks,

Posting here for two reasons...

Firstly to give this brilliant thread a bump, there is so much great information here.

Secondly, I'm still searching for/working towards my sub 3, and wondering if there is anyone in the same boat at the minute.

I got myself down to a 3.06 this year, so it seems a lot more achievable now.

Just looking at plans and races for the New Year, anyone else got a sub 3 on the brain??

Three words....

Mileage, mileage, mileage.

Best of luck!

menoscemo

Gavlor wrote: »

Three words....

Mileage, mileage, mileage.

Best of luck!

Three words I never thought I would hear you advise :P