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The Sub 3 Support Thread

--amadeus--

Not sure if this is a viable thread or not....

There tends to be a lot of support for newbies and improver's (the two mentored DCM threads, the Tri Novice thread for example) but less of a community vibe as you move up the pace. I know a lot of us read each others logs but I'll read 10 for every one I comment in and I'm sure others are the same.

And I know that there are a few of us aiming at sub 3 this autumn. I'm taking a crack at it in Amsterdam, Village Runner and Peckham in Berlin, SunGod in Dublin. I'm sure SloggerJogger is going to take another pop at it as well having come so close. And of course we have a lot of runners who have already gone sub 3 (and faster). And the Sub 3 thread on RunnersWorld is very busy and popular.

So here we go - if it works it works, if it sinks it sinks!

And to start - I'm a little concerned about my weekly mileage. This week is pretty poor (I'll be lucky to get mid 30s) and I've been doing 40s for the last couple of weeks with the intention of doing 6 - 8 weeks of 50 - 60 mpw as teh basis of my attempt.

Do you think that's enough? What sort of mileage are you all doing and planning?

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frog lake

hi did anyone measure the course as being slightly longer

Vito Andolini

frog lake wrote: »

hi did anyone measure the course as being slightly longer

Send an email to the dcm organisers straight away.

frog lake

i did 3.00.09 my garmin said that at 42.2 k my time was 2.59.23 i know we can run abit longer around the course but i cut every corner possible ,just wondering did anyone else find it slightly longer

ice9

frog lake wrote: »

i did 3.00.09 my garmin said that at 42.2 k my time was 2.59.23 i know we can run abit longer around the course but i cut every corner possible ,just wondering did anyone else find it slightly longer

to only register 42.2K is an achievement in itself. I've never registered < 42.5K. You were trying to make up for the fact that you couldn't run the ideal line but you will still run more than 42.2 unless you are actually cheating, which you undoubtedly weren't - hence the fact that your garmin distance is < your course run distance.

a very good time for the conditions. well done.

Vito Andolini

It's a great time in the conditions, I'd expect to have a good bit of variance over 26.2 miles, to run down the battery on my old garmin I used to leave it on the window sill with the timer running it'd always record distance (half a mile one time) even tho it'd wouldn't have moved!

iancairns

frog lake wrote: »

hi did anyone measure the course as being slightly longer

Yep 24.42 on my Garmin 612

RayCun

If my garmin measured exactly marathon distance I would be worried.
The race organisers measure, and measure again, with a Jones counter, much more accurate than a watch

Netwerk Errer

A tough day for me and a lot of people out there. Never seen so much carnage in a race. I wasn't ever going to run under 3, hit the half in 1.30:14 and was already under pressure and stopped for 2 minutes just after 14. Felt pretty comfortable again after that stop and reeled off a few decent miles up to 30k and started to fall apart then. My knee started to hurt at 21ish which ended with a trip to the medical tent at 23 miles. Severely damaged knee ligaments was the diagnosis. Limped home to 3.55.

Last marathon I'm going to do for another 10 years I'd say. Time to focus on the 5-10k from now on after what looks to be like an extended rehab from a torn ligament.

Bahanaman

3:02:19 for me. Best performance of my life. Didn't get the sub 3 but it was never going to be on once we hit the Phoenix Park! The pain over the last six miles was unprecedented! I made one last burst in mile 21 to try and get the pace down but it died a death after about 400 metres! A real sufferfest... bodies everywhere. It was so tempting to just stop and lie down beside them! On another day the sub 3 might have been doable but them's the breaks! Some atmosphere going under the luas flyover! What a noise the crowd made.

ooter

I was way off.:(
Serious kudos to anyone who goes sub 3 hour for the marathon, it's a major achievement.
I worked me are off this year but it wasn't to be.
Got a gfa for London though so I'm more than happy with that.:)

Plodman

Was hoping to break 2:50 but struggled a bit over the last couple of miles to come in at just over 2:52. Tough conditions out there today. Delighted though because it's a 25 min pb. Well done to all

ooter

Plodman wrote: »

Was hoping to break 2:50 but struggled a bit over the last couple of miles to come in at just over 2:52. Tough conditions out there today. Delighted though because it's a 25 min pb. Well done to all

Ah that's just taking the p1ss.:)
Well done mate.
Don't know about anyone else but dolphin's barn to walkinstown was pretty fookin horrendous.: eek:

ThebitterLemon

Plodman wrote: »

Was hoping to break 2:50 but struggled a bit over the last couple of miles to come in at just over 2:52. Tough conditions out there today. Delighted though because it's a 25 min pb. Well done to all

Great time and you're certainly not living up to your moniker!

TbL

Bahanaman

Plodman wrote: »

Was hoping to break 2:50 but struggled a bit over the last couple of miles to come in at just over 2:52. Tough conditions out there today. Delighted though because it's a 25 min pb. Well done to all

Are you taking the pish?!! Either way I hate you!:P

yaboya1

ooter wrote: »

Don't know about anyone else but dolphin's barn to walkinstown was pretty fookin horrendous.: eek:

Agreed. No matter what pace you were running at!

Plodman

I decided around mile 22 that I was never running another marathon. HMs, 10 milers and 10ks are enjoyable but marathons are all about pain no matter what speed you run. It takes guts to run one regardless of time taken. Might relent on the "never again" decision though once the legs recover ðŸ˜„ðŸ˜„

Bahanaman

frog lake wrote: »

i did 3.00.09 my garmin said that at 42.2 k my time was 2.59.23 i know we can run abit longer around the course but i cut every corner possible ,just wondering did anyone else find it slightly longer

26.42 on my Garmin 405cx

frog lake

i discovered last night from an experienced runner that the shortest one can expect to get around is 42.45,i set my virtual partner to 2.59.59 for 42.195 km,when i was ahead of the virtual partner in the final mile by 70m i thought i had it in the bag,only to discover i had approx 350m to go when my garmin alerted to say i had completed the 42.195km.the frustrating part is i planned to get to st vincents hospital and then go for it ,i did my final 5k in 20.42,im sure i could have sqeezed out 10 seconds over that 5k if i has accounted for the 350m i didnt realise i would have to do.lesson for me is that a marathon is 42.195 m but to run around amarathon course is approx 3-400m extra,im gonna make myself happy by posting marathon time 2.59.23 course time 3.00.09,,i know how you guys on this thread will look upon this but my advice for anyone like me is that know thy enemy,thanks for feedback from my previous post .

Krusty_Clown

I ran a marathon on Sunday and the from about 16k onwards, the watch was reporting that I was well ahead of my target pace (4 seconds/mile). Checking my splits at the 5k markers, I knew I was a minute behind my goal pace. If I was just relying on the watch, I would have eased back and maintained the reported target pace, slowly drifting away from my target, kilometer by kilometer. One of the greatest mistakes you can make when chasing a particular time goal during a marathon, is believing the data that's being reported to you by your Garmin.

Switch the watch over so it displays elapsed time. Print out a pace band. Check your time against the distance markers on the course. There is still a risk that the distance markers could be incorrectly positioned, but the data is far more reliable than the GPS data.

ploughon

Joining the suffer-fest review here with my day...

The first few miles were ok , but once we started to climb up Phoenix Park, the combination of wind and heat had me working harder than I wanted to be, I made a decision by mile 7ish to focus on a 3.05.
Around mile 13 I reset that to go for 3.10 or bust...hung on in there but around mile 19 the bright sunshine came out and I relay struggled from there on in. After a cruel last 6 miles came in at 3.18...

Hats off to anyone who came in sub 3 or even anywhere near it yesterday.

Back to the drawing board for me.

ice9

ploughon wrote: »

Joining the suffer-fest review here with my day...

The first few miles were ok , but once we started to climb up Phoenix Park, the combination of wind and heat had me working harder than I wanted to be, I made a decision by mile 7ish to focus on a 3.05.
Around mile 13 I reset that to go for 3.10 or bust...hung on in there but around mile 19 the bright sunshine came out and I relay struggled from there on in. After a cruel last 6 miles came in at 3.18...

Hats off to anyone who came in sub 3 or even anywhere near it yesterday.

Back to the drawing board for me.

The changed course plus conditions yesterday left no-where to hide. To break 3 yesterday you'd have to be capable of coming in a good 5 to 7 mins better than 3 on a perfect day.

I trained for sub three and just managed to do it in berlin 4 weeks ago. The temps were similar which I found tough there. Throw in the wind and hills yest though and you can forget about it.

Well done for giving it a rattle though.

ploughon

Hi ice9,

yeah thats what I decided to do yesterday..."give it a rattle"

I was fully aware that it could blow back on me, and it did.

I'm pretty sure if I had gone out more conservatively and stuck with a slower pace I could have come in a lot quicker, but I would probably be wondering today ...what if?

If nothing else today, at least I know the answer to that question

Fair play to you for going sub 3 in Berlin, well done.

ice9

ploughon wrote: »

Hi ice9,

yeah thats what I decided to do yesterday..."give it a rattle"

I was fully aware that it could blow back on me, and it did.

I'm pretty sure if I had gone out more conservatively and stuck with a slower pace I could have come in a lot quicker, but I would probably be wondering today ...what if?

If nothing else today, at least I know the answer to that question

Fair play to you for going sub 3 in Berlin, well done.

cheers. we are cut from the same cloth so. a stubborn one! If I had not had berlin available to me I would have been lining up yesterday refusing to change my sub-3 plan alongside you! Based on how Berlin went and compared to conditions yesterday I'm pretty sure I would have come up short yesterday. definitely just one of those days.

roll on next season! having done berlin and compared to Dublin I would advise you to try and get into Amsterdam or Berlin for next year. Dublin is a tough one to break 3 if you are there or thereabouts because of the hills if nothing else. Amsterdam might be the best option because it's fairly flat and has a better chance of being cooler.

Enjoy the bit of a rest for a few weeks now anyway.

Netwerk Errer

Bahanaman wrote: »

3:02:19 for me. Best performance of my life. Didn't get the sub 3 but it was never going to be on once we hit the Phoenix Park! The pain over the last six miles was unprecedented! I made one last burst in mile 21 to try and get the pace down but it died a death after about 400 metres! A real sufferfest... bodies everywhere. It was so tempting to just stop and lie down beside them! On another day the sub 3 might have been doable but them's the breaks! Some atmosphere going under the luas flyover! What a noise the crowd made.

Well done man!! Caught a glimpse of you in the first few miles but I couldn't get through the crowd. That's some running in those conditions. Definitely validates your performance in Waterford. A chipped sub 3 or better will come.:)

viperlogic

ice9 wrote: »

Amsterdam might be the best option because it's fairly flat and has a better chance of being cooler.

Unfortunately it wasn't cool this year, 19c and 95% humidity and windy :eek: Very unseasonal. It is flat thou, esp up to 25K, after that there are a few very small pulls.

It appears unseasonal weather this year has caught many for their Autumn marathon.

ice9

viperlogic wrote: »

Unfortunately it wasn't cool this year, 19c and 95% humidity and windy :eek: Very unseasonal. It is flat thou, esp up to 25K, after that there are a few very small pulls.

It appears unseasonal weather this year has caught many for their Autumn marathon.

yeah Amsterdam certainly didn't play out normally this time either. In general I think it should be cooler than berlin as it's later on calendar but that was not the case this year. just a weird season. hopefully more normal conditions in 2015

Bahanaman

Netwerk Errer wrote: »

Well done man!! Caught a glimpse of you in the first few miles but I couldn't get through the crowd. That's some running in those conditions. Definitely validates your performance in Waterford. A chipped sub 3 or better will come.:)

Cheers Netwerk Errer! Even though I didn't nail the sub 3 this run was much more satisfying than Waterford. Apart from the obvious reason of the distance f*ck up in Waterford, I missed about three weeks training over the last five weeks leading up to Dublin through injury. So all things considered this was a way better performance. Dunno where to go from here though. A flatter marathon somewhere would be nice!

Toblerone1978

Bahanaman wrote: »

Dunno where to go from here though. A flatter marathon somewhere would be nice!

Based on some of your posts, I would consider us to be at similar levels. I had a rub of the green on Monday going for the sub 3 and you had some bad luck going for the sub 3, particularly with the Waterford marathon. But the training for the last two marathons can still be used as a strong base. For what its worth, I think that a sub 3 is definitely in yours and another good training cycle + the base you have from this year (e.g. compare your base coming into 2014 vs 2015!) should achieve this.

That said, you had two marathons in short enough successions so if you feel like anything like me, I'd be making sure to let the body recover fully, over a good few weeks, before taking on another marathon training cycle. Perhaps consider another training programme, just to mix it up a bit?

ploughon

Thanks ice9,
Amsterdam and Berlin sound good.

Does anyone know anything about Rotterdam?
or any other Spring Marathons people would recommend??

There is always the option of another sufferfest in Connamara, at least you know what to expect in Conn and it never disappoints on that score!!