J C wrote: » I never came across this before ... Is this some kind of skill that some Evolutionists have evolved, so to speak???:D ... or is just the way they have always talked to each other?:)
mickrock wrote: » Ok, evolution is a creative and intelligent process then. Thanks for clearing it up.
5uspect wrote: » Read an undergrad biology textbook.
J C wrote: » By calling the use of smileys 'trolling' ... you are trivializing a very nasty and serious form of on-line bullying ... which real trolling is. It's like accusing somebody who smiles at you of rape!!!:(
floggg wrote: » No, that didn't in any way provide an answer or evidence. Just because you dress up your belief as an absolute truth, doesn't mean it is one.Please point to any EVIDENCE (other than the bible) that god is an uncreated creator. Something objectively verifiable. I look forward to it.
Doctor Jimbob wrote: » No. Just because something isn't a blind random process doesn't mean there's a big bearded fella in the sky directing it all behind the scenes.
J C wrote: » ... only Atheists (and anybody else) who starts using Stalinist language by calling Christians 'deluded and insane'.
Chunners wrote: » Personally I like how you took my previous post, threw in a few references to your delusion and then claimed it as your own
floggg wrote: » No, that didn't in any way provide an answer or evidence. Just because you dress up your belief as an absolute truth, doesn't mean it is one. Please point to any EVIDENCE (other than the bible) that god is an uncreated creator. Something objectively verifiable. I look forward to it.
Doctor Jimbob wrote: » None of that proves god exists though. Do you even read your own posts?
mickrock wrote: » Why do you have to keep bringing religion into it? The standard view is that evolution is blind and dumb(unintelligent), which you seem to disagree with in one post and agree with in another.
Uncle Ruckus wrote: » Science may not have all the answers yet but it sure has a pretty damn good track record. Far better than a talking snake and a magic apple.
Doctor Jimbob wrote: » What is the source of this intelligence if it isn't some diety? I've yet to see anyone make the argument that evolution is guided by an intelligence without attributing said intelligence to a god.
Doctor Jimbob wrote: » Again, no, you didn't present proof of any kind. You have just said 'I don't understand it so it must be god'. That is neither logical or rational. Possible, perhaps, since it hasn't been proven otherwise yet, but certainly not logical or rational.
mickrock wrote: » The inference that intelligence is responsible for the creation and evolution of life has not been refuted.
Defender OF Faith wrote: » I didn't even read nor see your previous post, but now that you pointed it out and unless you are blind it's no different then my argument for god existence. You believe that a different space existed before ours that had its own laws which are impossible for us to understand because it's outside our universe and apparently in that universe something can be created out of nothing while I believe that God is that space and him being outside our space would be impossible for us to understand. That would make you deluded aswell my friend.
Doctor Jimbob wrote: » I like how you criticize me for bringing religion into things when you're very clearly doing just that while trying desperately to avoid actually saying it.
mickrock wrote: » I'm not religious at all. Logic and reason have led me to my conclusions about intelligence in nature.
Chunners wrote: » Actually it is different, see if you knew anything about time and space you would know that God could not exist outside time and space because any movement from a point A to a point B is in itself a movement in time and to move from a point A to a point B would be indicative of a movement in a 3 dimensional space (X, Y, Z axis). See I called it "Space" because I (quite rightly it seems) didn't think any of you could get your head around the concept of absolutely nothing and Quantum physics allows for small random energy events (that could lead to a big bang) to occur in absolute nothingness since there is no transfer of nano particles from a point A to a point B yet to cause a time event to occur.
Defender OF Faith wrote: » Thats if we go by your argument/explanation and say that a "space" existed before ours, while I have said that this space is God meaning; there is no space before our space and only god was their, and since both of these arguments relate to matter/entity outside our universe it's impossible for us to understand.
Saganist wrote: » The bolded bit. If we said that when we discovered gravity where would we be now ?
Defender OF Faith wrote: » Forgive me but I don't seem to fully understand what your saying if you meant that if we discovered gravity we simply sat down and didn't bother delving deeper into it because it would be impossible for us to understand, then this doesnt contradict what I said because gravity is in our universe and is possible to understand.
Defender OF Faith wrote: » I didn't even read nor see your previous post, but now that you pointed it out and unless you are blind it's no different then my argument for god existence. You believe that a different space existed before ours that had its own laws which are impossible for us to understand because it's outside our universe and apparently in that universe something can be created out of nothing while I believe that God is that space and him being outside our space would be impossible for us to understand. That would make you deluded aswell my friend. I think I should of asked this question a while ago, exactly what kind of proof are you looking for? What I presented is a logical and rational proof, if your looking for a scientific/materialistic proof for god existence then you might have to wait for a very long time if not forever,Science is not even close in understanding the universe and the more complex functions of the human body itself, let alone be able to prove the existence of an entity outside our own very universe.
Chunners wrote: » No yet again, my argument says quite the opposite, my argument states quite clearly that there is absolutely no matter outside our universe and until our universe came into existence there was no time either so your "god" could not have existed. It may be impossible for you to understand what you claim to be true but trust me I have a full grasp of what I claim to be true so please refrain for lumping me into the "it is impossible for us to understand" group. Let me be quite clear on this, I never once said "I don't believe in god" , I know god doesn't exist, there is no doubt in my head that it is nothing more than a delusion of people who either can't, or are too afraid to, let their minds realize just how insignificant and small we really are.
Defender OF Faith wrote: » I dare you to point out in all my posts and quote it, were I have said that or used this as a build up of my argument because I never did & can you please at least show me how it's not logical and rational? since everything I said was backed with logic and rational. I think your simply in denial that a logical argument exist for the presence of god because accepting god will take you out of your comfort zone of simply not thinking about heaven,hell,retribution and resurrection because god does not exist.
Defender OF Faith wrote: » You said and I quote "God could not exist outside time and space ". To begin with and I didn't point this out earlier, the obvious flaw in this argument is your application of our laws of physics to another universe outside of ours, and again you believe that no matter existed before our universe while I believe that an entity does exist and that entity is God. You cannot support your claim and have no logical argument for it, -that no matter existed before our universe- while I have the principle of cause & effect to support my claim with God outside our universe being the cause of it. So it makes more sense to accept and believe something that have at least some sort of claim supporting it rather then accepting and blindly following something that have no claim and logical argument supporting it.
kingchess wrote: » THERE is no space and time outside the universe-you can not stand outside the universe and watch it expand towards you because there is no space outside the universe for the universe to expand into Time and Space began with the universe and that is what is expanding.
Chunners wrote: » Sorry but you are wrong, "Cause and effect" are products of our universe's laws of physics. You can't claim some of our laws apply why others don't, it's either all or nothing. I didn't apply any of our laws to outside our universe, at least not before the creation of our universe, then the laws would change because where there was nothing there would now be something and once there is something there is movement and for movement to exist time must exist. Your own bible states that God made man in his own image (don't even get me started on the flaws in that statement btw) ergo god is shaped like man, a 3 dimensional being which, to move, would require time and space to move in thus negating any argument you have that it exists out of time or is "uncreated". Really yourself and JC should collaborate more before you make these ridiculous claims that are totally contradictory and make fools of each other.
