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Hi vis discussion thread (read post #1)

Iwannahurl

MOD VOICE: So as not to take up room on the helmet thread I have taken out the last few pages of hi vis related material and put it together here. All material or threads relating specifically to hi vis will be moved in here or locked if it repeats what is already said in here. There are a few off topic posts but from now on if we could keep the discussion to Hi Vis, and related topics.

Cram

Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar was interviewed by Sean O'Rourke on RTE Radio 1 this morning.

Questions were submitted by listeners, and someone asked whether hi-viz and helmets were to be made mandatory for cyclists.

The Minister's response (paraphrased) was "hi-viz possibly, but the evidence is not great that helmets have a big impact on road safety."

I have mixed views on that response. The situation with helmets has been well rehearsed in this thread -- evidence of modest benefit versus anti-cycling effect of mandatory laws -- but it's odd that the Minister might consider making hi-viz mandatory given that there is no evidence (to date) that it reduces casualties.

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CatFromHue

tomasrojo wrote: »

I agree. The statement contains none of that detail, and also exhorts motorists to pester pedestrians, with no discrimination between daylight, night, type of roads, anything.

You might expect the "and as for motorists" part of the statement to say something about driving so that you're able to stop in time based on the amount of road visible ahead, but instead it's some bizarre scheme to act as informal hi-viz distributors for the RSA.

You're reading way way way way too much into it.

Cantona's Collars

Eamonnator wrote: »

Motorists in France are obliged to carry a Hi-Viz jacket in their car, one for each occupant.

That's actually a very good idea,at least if you are unfortunate enough to break down or need to change a wheel at the roadside you'll be more visible to passing traffic.

On the topic of cyclists,it was a dank,wet & dark day today & I came across 6 in total with all wearing black & not one bit of hi viz.One did have a barely visible light on the back but it was covered in road splatter.
It's compulsory on a building site to wear hi viz to help drivers spot you,why not just have some common sense on the road to play your part in getting to your destination alive when on your bike?
I also passed several joggers & all bar one were easily seen wearing flourescent bibs or tops with reflective strips.All could be seen from a good distance.
When I'm on the road,I like to be seen by motorists,I'm not on a stealth mission & trying to blend in with the background.

NeedMoreGears

My own experience of walking in rural Mayo was that pedestrians often carried lights.

tomasrojo

CatFromHue wrote: »

Whether people are dying from it or now it's a good idea if you're walking on the road, as there's no path, in poor visibility to wear one of these

I agree. The statement contains none of that detail, and also exhorts motorists to pester pedestrians, with no discrimination between daylight, night, type of roads, anything.

You might expect the "and as for motorists" part of the statement to say something about driving so that you're able to stop in time based on the amount of road visible ahead, but instead it's some bizarre scheme to act as informal hi-viz distributors for the RSA.

CatFromHue

Whether people are dying from it or now it's a good idea if you're walking on the road, as there's no path, in poor visibility to wear one of these

tomasrojo

How many of "the forty-two pedestrians that have been killed in road accidents since the start of the year" were killed on rural roads during times of poor visibility? Be nice to hear what the plans are for all the other scenarios.

Eamonnator

Motorists in France are obliged to carry a Hi-Viz jacket in their car, one for each occupant.

CatFromHue

I'm guessing that they're talking about pedestrians out in rural areas, as it's someone from the Mayo Co. Co. quoted, where there may be no street lights or path so this makes alot of sense.

You do see pedestrians walking on the hard shoulder of some rural roads, though in fairness the ones I've seen do wear hi viz jackets.

Chips Lovell

I totally agree with this. I find it very hard to spot pedestrians when I'm driving on the footpath.

tomasrojo

Just heard this on the radio.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/pedestrians-should-use-hi-vis-jackets-when-out-walking-656331.html

Pedestrians should wear hi-viz when out walking. Motorists don't get off scot-free though! They also have a duty to carry hi-viz jackets, to distribute to non-compliant pedestrians. See, we all share responsibility!

(Again, Mayo prominently mentioned in article.)

CramCycle

Completely agree, which is why I was impressed when I heard about the caps.

ThisRegard

CramCycle wrote: »

School day out? Often schools will have a particular stand out piece of clothing to make their kids easily recognise able in places with a crowd. I think earlier I mentioned my daughters school has pink baseball caps and bumbags

School holidays this week. At least your daughters school is different with pink caps, but as I said before, any benefit is lost when you have several groups of kids around the same age all wearing the same freebie RSA high vis vests in the same place, such as the zoo. In fact it would make it more difficult to distinguish who's in your group.

CramCycle

ThisRegard wrote: »

Kids and high his are my new pet topic. Last week at the Halloween Spooky forest there was a bunch of them together.

This one I couldn't understand though. There was a group of kids, about 8 or 9, in Imaginosity, all wearing them. I know there's a box of them in the place around the construction zone that kids can put on, but it wasn't that.

They were just a group together all wearing them in an indoor kids museum/play area as when they walked down the steps to the cloak room, they all took them off, put their coats on, and put the high vis back on over their coats.

School day out? Often schools will have a particular stand out piece of clothing to make their kids easily recognise able in places with a crowd. I think earlier I mentioned my daughters school has pink baseball caps and bumbags

ThisRegard

Kids and high his are my new pet topic. Last week at the Halloween Spooky forest there was a bunch of them together.

This one I couldn't understand though. There was a group of kids, about 8 or 9, in Imaginosity, all wearing them. I know there's a box of them in the place around the construction zone that kids can put on, but it wasn't that.

They were just a group together all wearing them in an indoor kids museum/play area as when they walked down the steps to the cloak room, they all took them off, put their coats on, and put the high vis back on over their coats.

Cookie_Monster

Iwannahurl wrote: »

How to even begin unravelling that mindset?

In theory it's really simple. Have AGS actually out on the roads enforcing all the laws & educating people on what they are doing wrong rather than just generating money from speeding.

However in practice this will never happen and they also have the mindset that hi-vis is best, you should be in cycle lanes etc for some reason. There is also practically zero enforcement of rules for cars and other traffic so nobody cares at all what goes on on the roads once you're under the speed limit.

Iwannahurl

Mooving on, I spotted a cyclist yesterday evening in Galway around 5:30. The clocks have gone back, so it was quite dark. Well past lighting-up time anyway.

Helmet on. Hi-vis vest flapping. No lights front or back. Cycling on the footpath. On the wrong side of the roads for his direction of travel.

How to even begin unravelling that mindset?

buffalo

She goes to a cow college. In Moo York.

Leroy42

Lumen wrote: »

No, she's actually a cow.

Never met her so can't comment on that.

Lumen

Leroy42 wrote: »

Gee Buffalo, how old exactly is your girlfriend. I mean, were not talking illegal right?

No, she's actually a cow.

Would you expect a buffalo to be chasing after a human woman? Ewwww.

Leroy42

buffalo wrote: »

Yesterday was Cycle on Wednesday in my girlfriend's school

Gee Buffalo, how old exactly is your girlfriend. I mean, were not talking illegal right?

buffalo

Iwannahurl wrote: »

We cycle to school every day, but last week my youngest wanted us to go past the school to a car-park approx 1 km further away, in order to participate in Walk on Wednesday. Part of the attraction, it seems, is dressing up in hi-vis. Kids whose parents drive to the car-park, some passing the school on the way, and walk back with hi-vis on are recognised and rewarded. Those who travel on foot, by bike or by bus every day are ignored.

Yesterday was Cycle on Wednesday in my girlfriend's school, or COW day. A few people dressed up in cow onesies - probably more noticeable than hi-vis!

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Recently I saw a reference somewhere to some hi-vis material as being "incandescent".

I love it! keeps you visible *and* warm!

Iwannahurl

tomasrojo wrote: »

Does the RSA really expect pedestrians to wear "reflective" (by which I presume they mean fluorescent with reflective stripes) clothing during the day? Do they foresee a future in which most people actually do this? Do they really want primary school children to harrass their parents into dressing like binmen every time they leave the house without car keys?

Recently I saw a reference somewhere to some hi-vis material as being "incandescent".

The RSA seems to be obsessed with hi-vis. Their new CEO, Moyagh Murdock, was on RTE Radio 1, yesterday I think, promoting hi-vis in the context of the latest Slow Down Day, which takes place tomorrow.

We cycle to school every day, but last week my youngest wanted us to go past the school to a car-park approx 1 km further away, in order to participate in Walk on Wednesday. Part of the attraction, it seems, is dressing up in hi-vis. Kids whose parents drive to the car-park, some passing the school on the way, and walk back with hi-vis on are recognised and rewarded. Those who travel on foot, by bike or by bus every day are ignored.

CatFromHue

Even with the dips they show up a bit, not to the same degree as full beams but enough to let you know they're there.

CramCycle

CatFromHue wrote: »

The grey, glass bead strips I think they're called, strips on the hi viz jackets really illuminate when a head light shines on them.

In an urban/built up area though you should be travelling with dips, so only useful in the country.

Also the ones supplied by the RSA last year had to all be recalled as this strip was just grey material with no reflective properties.

That said if everyone used the legally required lights then this would be a non issue, in the countryside they provide a benefit if the reflective material is any use but even then, lights are more essential unless the driver refuses to dim.

CatFromHue

The grey, glass bead strips I think they're called, strips on the hi viz jackets really illuminate when a head light shines on them.

If your hi viz jacket has none or very little of these then they're a waste of time at night and would only be for day time use but the standard one you see guys on work sites use is great at night.

I don't think the difference between hi viz clothing and non hi viz clothing during the day is that much really.

CramCycle

CatFromHue wrote: »

If it's at night time then this makes sense, day time not though.

Are you talking about the Hi-Vis, because that is designed for daytime visibility and identification AFAIK, hence why it is a H&S requirement on sites so operators of heavy machinery notice something that does not fit in with the scenery which may be changing all the time anyway.

hawkwing

Killenaule and Ballingarry used to be fiery one time.

CatFromHue

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I checked in tonight and there are 167 comments on the latest free lights campaign. Out of those, there's a huge amount of people requesting cyclists to wear hi vis so they can be seen.

If it's at night time then this makes sense, day time not though.

Leroy42

brian.henry wrote: »

The backpack cover will help ....remove the opportunity for motorists to blame me for their own incompetence.

There is nothing invented in the whole known universe that can do that.