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The staggering price of weddings in this country.

xpletiv

I have been engaged for 6 months and have been looking around Ireland for a nice venue. The church we are getting married in only does Saturday ceremonies so we have to have it on a Saturday. What I cant believe is the absolute greed of venues; MOST cost about 100 euro a head, for basic enough package of canapes, 3 course and evening food and wine, but they also have insane minimum numbers of 100 people and sometimes more (140 ive found) meaning a wedding costs MINIMUM 10000 euros. Now, call me cynical, but are we in Ireland not still in recession!? Are people actually paying this crazy amounts?! And most importantly, with the lovely new budget that just came out, new house buyers have to have 20% of their mortgage (thanks older generation!) so I would now assume people are going to spend less on their wedding, yet we cant get past the minimum numbers part, and no where seems to be negotiable for price or numbers. Any tips? Also, to vendors out there that may read this, consider that the generation that is currently getting married is being destroyed by tax and costs as it is and now have to save 20% for houses. I really think the minimum numbers thing is a joke. Especially for the prices you are charging!

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floggg

xpletiv wrote: »

Op is here (to whomever asked...)... been watching... and contemplating...

A lot of the posts here read as 'yes its mad' or 'if you cant afford it dont' or 'we (as a vendor) have to make money too!'. It just reads as class warfare To whoever said we arent in a recession, say that again when you get your first water bill on top of the rising cost of electricity, gas, household charge, and of course this lovely 20% mortgage theyre bringing in.

The surprising thing is, based on looking through the historical prices of venues, before the boom they were normal enough; 30-40 pound a head was big money in the big places. Then it jumped hugely. Then the 2007 recession hit and they didnt up them, but I have not seen anywhere that dropped them (at least not significantly...). But now they are going up again. Is it any wonder that so many places are being foreclosed on or are up for sale (Markree Castle, Village at Lyons, Powerscourt).

Ive been to 20 venues now, so ive seen a lot of what Ireland has to offer. Thats omitting the top places like Powerscourt, Shelbourne, etc because of course theyll be over the top. The worst Ive seen is Ashford castle, which now has a 26000/40000 rental fee in the low/high season (which includes all bedrooms and breakfast...) but nothing for dinner/drink/canapes which is 110 a head, plus another 2500 for room rental. Granted, thats the top ive found, but I thought that was out of this world. Who are these people that pay it?! And how many weddings do they even have a year at these prices?!

Most of the places that people have mentioned in this thread... Ive seen. And they were not good. Basic things, like dirty linen (on the days of weddings no less!), paint coming off walls/roofs, frayed carpets and worn out looking venues were just some of the things we noticed in these lesser places. Of course this would be a small investment on their part and would make the difference but if the hotels/venues cant even afford to fix up the places, then how do they expect people to pay these whopper packages for substandard services?!

The venues does gripe me. But so do other things; the cost of the photographer, often about 2k to 3k for a days work and a weeks worth of formating/editting and printing in a day where everything is digital, bands that charge 2k to 3k for a few hours work (and im a musician of 10 years, finding out these prices was mindblowing. Say whatever you want about having to learn songs, you play music cause you enjoy it and sure you make money, but thats just greedy I find, and we as the punters should consider ourselves foolish), cakes that cost 500-800 quid a pop for ingredients that cost 50 euros at most. We're already costing those parts out ourselves to keep price down with several friends who are photographers collaborating, several musician friends playing for free, and we're considering making the cake ourselves (she can bake. Thank god.), but I feel Im lucky to know these people where as others our generation wont have that luck.

Getting back to it... I feel that people in the wedding industry take advantage, as most people have said (bar a few that I would think are vendors themselves...) if you said its a party its probably about 2/3's of the price to saying 'wedding'.

The above poster here says that its the mentality that came along with the Celtic Tiger. This is what I meant about the 'generation above us', the ones that have had the jobs for 20 years, that got the houses for 1/3 of the price they are now, that were able to support a family of 4 on one income alone. Gone are those days, and its their fault, yet its this generation that is left with the burdens, in the housing market, in the jobs markets, in the wedding market. To doubt that is foolish. The idea of this all inclusive wedding is put upon our generation, or at least, we cant get the wedding we want because everywhere is expecting to make fistfuls of money. The thing is, I wouldnt mind paying 100 a head, but its the minimum numbers that kill. I dont want to invite 100 people and it feels like Id be inviting people I dont want. Im getting this from most venues or otherwise we're pressured into weekday weddings which of course we cant do because of the chapel (note; the chapel is the non changer). We're considering moving to a winter wedding simply due to the costs. But I feel like everyone is going to be moving that way soon cause this generation wants to get a house at some stage, and its the wedding that will suffer. I hope that vendors are ready for this cause Id say it'll mean a drop in bookings and, based on what we've all seen in the last few years, stubbornness against any kind of change will affect them and ultimately cost the properties... which then will get bought by property investors!

Our poor country

This post makes me sad. Not in the way you were hoping for though.

1. Its not the older generations fault, it's economics and human nature.

2. You are complaining about the previous generation getting carried away and spending beyond reasonable means, and yet when something is done to try and address the single biggest thing Irish people over spent on (property), your also complaining about that.

3. You complain about weddings being over priced, and yet you are viewing Ashford flipping Castle. Clearly it's your wants/expectations that are out of check.

4. Similarly with canapés etc. The reason things have gone so expensive is because people want all that (frankly unnecessary) stuff. Yes, it's nice to have those little luxuries on your big day, but they are luxuries not essentials. If you want to cut cost, drop that sort of thing.

5. The world does t owe you anything. As long as there are people willing to pay for a fancy bash, canapés etc, people are going to try to make a profit from it. Nobody does it for ****s and giggles, they do it to make money.

If you want to be part of the solution, be different and go for a stripped back, low key party rather than a fancy wedding celebration.

Otherwise, accept that the laws of supply and demand mean you will pay a fair amount of money for going for the full package.

Gatica

xpletiv wrote: »

Well clearly the last few posters havent actually read my post and jumped on the mention of a venue. When i enquired i hadnt heard of it but someone said it was lovely. Fair enough if they are playing on the international stage and I found since that its total luxury and way past my budget

xpletiv wrote: »

Ive been to 20 venues now, so ive seen a lot of what Ireland has to offer. Thats omitting the top places like Powerscourt, Shelbourne, etc because of course theyll be over the top. The worst Ive seen is Ashford castle, which now has a 26000/40000 rental fee in the low/high season (which includes all bedrooms and breakfast...) but nothing for dinner/drink/canapes which is 110 a head, plus another 2500 for room rental. Granted, thats the top ive found, but I thought that was out of this world. Who are these people that pay it?! And how many weddings do they even have a year at these prices?!

I would've assumed that after enquiring about cost of a wedding at Ashford it would've become clear that it was in a league of its own, and yet you still made the comment above that "excluding the top places" "the worst ...is Ashford castle". That's why other posters "jumped on the mention" of it. Btw, Ashford castle isn't even used that much for Irish weddings, it's mostly wealthy Americans that marry there because they like the charm of the Irish castle and country-side, and most importantly - can afford it. I was at a wedding in Lisloughrey Lodge, which is a stone's throw away, hosted by a well-to-do middle class couple (top manager and doctor). Now, if they can afford Lisloughrey (which is lovely as well anyway) but not Ashford, then it's clear to me who the market for that venue (Ashford) is, and it's not your regular middle-class Joe and Jane.

xpletiv wrote: »

Most of the places that people have mentioned in this thread... Ive seen. And they were not good. Basic things, like dirty linen (on the days of weddings no less!), paint coming off walls/roofs, frayed carpets and worn out looking venues were just some of the things we noticed in these lesser places. Of course this would be a small investment on their part and would make the difference but if the hotels/venues cant even afford to fix up the places, then how do they expect people to pay these whopper packages for substandard services?!

xpletiv wrote: »

A lot of the posts here read as 'yes its mad' or 'if you cant afford it dont' or 'we (as a vendor) have to make money too!'. It just reads as class warfare

xpletiv wrote: »

but are all the places supposed to be for the ultra rich and famous?

Not all the places. Numerous ones that are not for the "ultra rich" have been mentioned on this thread. It seem that you don't like them though. Not much else we can suggest on this thread, if none of the regular stuff is up to scratch for you and the expensive you cannot afford. Call it what you will, "class warfare", or whatever else, those that have the money will pay it for the things they want, and those expensive things will stay highly priced because of those that have the money to pay for them. It's always been the way, it's not a new thing. Most of us just cut our cloth to suit...

xpletiv wrote: »

The surprising thing is, based on looking through the historical prices of venues, before the boom they were normal enough; 30-40 pound a head was big money in the big places. Then it jumped hugely. Then the 2007 recession hit and they didnt up them, but I have not seen anywhere that dropped them (at least not significantly...). But now they are going up again. Is it any wonder that so many places are being foreclosed on or are up for sale (Markree Castle, Village at Lyons, Powerscourt).

I don't know what weddings cost before 2011, because we didn't attend any before then and are only couple of years married ourselves. You might be right, prices sky-rocketed with the boom, but once the B&G expectations were high, it became harder to lower them even after the crash, so prices stayed high. As someone else has mentioned, it's starting to deflate somewhat now with intimate weddings becoming more en vogue.
I don't know why Village at Lyons would be going "foreclosed" as I believe it's a very popular venue for weddings, in spite of their high prices; and I certainly wouldn't categorise it with Markree Castle (though lovely, it's less up-market than Lyons). Point is, as tinkerbell mentioned, if you're looking at the likes of Village at Lyons, you're still not cutting cloth to measure.

tinkerbell wrote: »

Not everybody is strapped for cash so venues can still charge high prices. You need to lower your expectations if you can't afford it.

This^^
Here's a few more venues that us regular Joes cannot afford (or would have to borrow or save very long and hard): Ballymagarvey, Balllymaloe, Castle Durrow, Kilshane House, Lough Rynn (where Brian O'Driscoll got married - puts it into perspective) and Kilronan.
We would've loved to have our wedding at Kilshane House. It's a gorgeous venue, but we thought it was insane to pay 5000 as the "exclusivity fee". It was out of our reasonable budget, so we cut it out. I know people out there have paid it, and because they're willing to pay it, the prices ain't coming down - that's just how supply and demand works.

xpletiv wrote: »

My point is; 90% of the places here are still charging Celtic Tiger prices. Theres an expectation placed on Irish weddings that costs a bomb, and venues take advantage of that. I know i wont be because my budget wont allow it, but the expectation of venues to make at least 20k on a night, is shameful, and greedy.

Toots wrote: »

The price thing is all about supply and demand. If a hotel is good enough and popular enough for weddings and they're still getting solid bookings through the recession, they don't need to reduce their packages to try and get more customers in. It's nothing to do with greed, it's just good business. Same with bands/photographers/florists/cake makers, why would they reduce their prices if their business isn't suffering?

^^took the words right out of my mouth.
Any and every business will charge as high a price for their goods and services as they can get away with.

xpletiv wrote: »

bands that charge 2k to 3k for a few hours work (and im a musician of 10 years, finding out these prices was mindblowing. Say whatever you want about having to learn songs, you play music cause you enjoy it and sure you make money, but thats just greedy I find, and we as the punters should consider ourselves foolish)

Here's your answer:

Neyite wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that if you supplied a service that costs you €100 in labour and materials, and that people were throwing money at you to the extent you could charge €1,000 or more and still have to turn custom away, that you wouldnt maximise your profit margin and only charge €200 out of the goodness of your heart because there is a recession on.

Toots wrote: »

As well as that, you seem to be drastically underestimating what the outlays are for these guys. Once these costs are met they have to also earn enough to make a living for themselves.

I would think you are a very naive person if you said you genuinely thought people should only charge a pre-determined profit margin, this isn't a communist country.

xpletiv wrote: »

To whoever said we arent in a recession, say that again when you get your first water bill on top of the rising cost of electricity, gas, household charge, and of course this lovely 20% mortgage theyre bringing in.

If you exclude the 20% (rounding up) or so home-owners who are in arrears and the 12% unemployed, maybe throw in a few who are employed but struggling with home/rent payment, you'll probably still be left with a whopping almost 50% who are not... If any in that category are getting married, they may very well be happy to pay the 25k for their wedding. Now if your particular worry is the 20% deposit, then maybe concentrate on that instead of the traditional and/or lavish wedding.

xpletiv wrote: »

The venues does gripe me. But so do other things; the cost of the photographer, often about 2k to 3k for a days work and a weeks worth of formating/editting and printing in a day where everything is digital

I don't know where you are getting these quotes from, you must be again going by recommendations of friends that recommended Ashford. Plenty of photographers available for under 1500.
Finally having had our album printed recently, I can say it was hours and hours of painstaking work. Picking photos, cropping, adjusting, picking layout, going through it and rearranging layout or photo pick again... Doing some editing on some non-professional pics we liked. I can admit, if I had to charge per hour rate (standard rate, not crazy rate) for that work, it would've amounted to at least what the professionals charge.

xpletiv wrote: »

cakes that cost 500-800 quid a pop for ingredients that cost 50 euros at most.

Again, I don't know where you're getting this quote from. We had a 300 Euro cake (3 tiers, I still consider it crazy money to spend) for 110 people, over half of which was not eaten on the night, so you really don't need that big a cake to feed the crowd. Lots of bakers also do fake layers to add height/size without the baking expense.
I thought of making the cake myself. I did a few trials, I started to get gadgets, price the tins and I can tell you none of it was cheap. If would've cost me a lot more in materials and experimentation than what we paid. You have to see these things in perspective. Yes they charge a lot, but they have the baking experience, and sugarwork or gum work is tedious work that requires training, experience and an array of tools.

xpletiv wrote: »

We're already costing those parts out ourselves to keep price down with several friends who are photographers collaborating, several musician friends playing for free, and we're considering making the cake ourselves (she can bake. Thank god.), but I feel Im lucky to know these people where as others our generation wont have that luck.

In my opinion, this is the most sensible thing you've said. Do find ways to cut your cost by DIYing things that you can.

xpletiv wrote: »

its the minimum numbers that kill. I dont want to invite 100 people and it feels like Id be inviting people I dont want. Im getting this from most venues or otherwise we're pressured into weekday weddings which of course we cant do because of the chapel (note; the chapel is the non changer). We're considering moving to a winter wedding simply due to the costs.

The likes of Kilronan and Lough Rynn have minimum numbers of 130 in the high season. They're up market and they'll get the business, so they can make those demands. Again, maybe you should be looking at venues that aren't up-there... There are plenty if you comb through this forum, it's treasure chest of information if you have the patience to read and wisdom to recognise good advice.

xpletiv

There are some great suggestions in this thread and I thank you for that, some of which I will definitely be looking into and mentioning to the other half, but I gotta say there are some absolute morons in here as well who either just seem up for the troll or... you can see the vested interests

Or perhaps since ABajanCork felt the need to point out that I was male, the self entitlement of women to spend their mens money (im kidding ladies, chill. Go to tumblr if you want to preach your feminism).

To anyone that thinks that the words wedding coming out of peoples mouths dont just send euro signs across the signs of those that own the businesses, kop on. To anyone that thinks that you dont have to have a particular standard of wedding in this country, kop on, youd be laughed at by friends and family for the decades to come. Theres a mentality engrained into us due to the celtic tiger and that unfortunately is still being peddled by the suppliers. I feel like everywhere literally tries to take advantage. The mark up on weddings in absurd.

I want a small wedding and to keep the money for the house, especially with the mortgages requiring 20% going forward. Yet venues, in general, arent allowing us to have the small wedding. This accounts for the majority of venues in Ireland. I know, ive been to plenty. Theres a stigma about where you have your wedding in society. Its a crying shame that people are taken advantage so much in this happy time.

drumswan

xpletiv wrote: »

Theres a stigma about where you have your wedding in society. Its a crying shame that people are taken advantage so much in this happy time.

No there isnt, its in your head. You want a 5 star hotel in a converted castle for your paltry budget, well thats not the way the world works. Grow up.

Id like to trade in my 99 Peugeot for a Ferrari but due to greed in the car trade i cant, its so unfair

floggg

xpletiv wrote: »

There are some great suggestions in this thread and I thank you for that, some of which I will definitely be looking into and mentioning to the other half, but I gotta say there are some absolute morons in here as well who either just seem up for the troll or... you can see the vested interests Or perhaps since ABajanCork felt the need to point out that I was male, the self entitlement of women to spend their mens money (im kidding ladies, chill. Go to tumblr if you want to preach your feminism).

To anyone that thinks that the words wedding coming out of peoples mouths dont just send euro signs across the signs of those that own the businesses, kop on. To anyone that thinks that you dont have to have a particular standard of wedding in this country, kop on, youd be laughed at by friends and family for the decades to come. Theres a mentality engrained into us due to the celtic tiger and that unfortunately is still being peddled by the suppliers. I feel like everywhere literally tries to take advantage. The mark up on weddings in absurd.

I want a small wedding and to keep the money for the house, especially with the mortgages requiring 20% going forward. Yet venues, in general, arent allowing us to have the small wedding. This accounts for the majority of venues in Ireland. I know, ive been to plenty. Theres a stigma about where you have your wedding in society. Its a crying shame that people are taken advantage so much in this happy time.

You're right, there are some real morons out there.

I'd recommend that rather than getting so worked up about the wedding, either stop being a sheep and doing it for the sake of others and/or get better friends.

And its not the venues not letting you have the big wedding - it's your own insecurity and unrealistic expectations.

I can't really blame anybody for taking advantage of somebody who wants a lavish affair just to get the approval of their so called friends.

fits

xpletiv wrote: »

Or perhaps since ABajanCork felt the need to point out that I was male, the self entitlement of women to spend their mens money (im kidding ladies, chill. Go to tumblr if you want to preach your feminism).

oh dear.
Wel you have pinned your colours to the mast there.

I'll ask again. What are your numbers and what's your budget

xpletiv

Sorry fits... but her post was much worse. Ive gotten what I needed out of this thread, thanks everyone that helped

Some great suggestions!

ABajaninCork

Then you should act on the great suggestions on this thread and stop being a baby. At the end of the day, it's YOUR wedding. Have what you want. But you need to be realistic about prices. Stop whinging about the prices some of the venues charge. Not what you want? Move on. You'll eventually find what you want, and the venue will find someone who will pay.

You can always negotiate the price/packages/numbers. Have you done that?

Here's another suggestion (apologies if it's already been done). Since you're having an intimate wedding, why don't you hire out a nice restaurant to hold the afters?

FutureGuy

Sleepy wrote: »

We had them too! Still on a shelf in the sitting room

Us too

Bride looking angry holding a bunch of flowers, groom looking utterly apprehensive (we switched the happy faces from the original figures

)

marialouise

xpletiv wrote: »

Sorry fits... but her post was much worse. Ive gotten what I needed out of this thread, thanks everyone that helped Some great suggestions!

Can we just close this thread so I don't have to claw my eyes out every time I read another nonsensical reply?

Sleepy

FutureGuy wrote: »

Us too Bride looking angry holding a bunch of flowers, groom looking utterly apprehensive (we switched the happy faces from the original figures )

We swapped the faces (and the bride's hair) too! Though they were both smiley ones, just ones that looked more like us!

tt2014

I used a wedding planner, saved us a fortune and she wasn't even that expensive, I hate haggling!

cerastes

xpletiv wrote: »

There are some great suggestions in this thread and I thank you for that, some of which I will definitely be looking into and mentioning to the other half, but I gotta say there are some absolute morons in here as well who either just seem up for the troll or... you can see the vested interests Or perhaps since ABajanCork felt the need to point out that I was male, the self entitlement of women to spend their mens money (im kidding ladies, chill. Go to tumblr if you want to preach your feminism).

To anyone that thinks that the words wedding coming out of peoples mouths dont just send euro signs across the signs of those that own the businesses, kop on. To anyone that thinks that you dont have to have a particular standard of wedding in this country, kop on, youd be laughed at by friends and family for the decades to come. Theres a mentality engrained into us due to the celtic tiger and that unfortunately is still being peddled by the suppliers. I feel like everywhere literally tries to take advantage. The mark up on weddings in absurd.

I want a small wedding and to keep the money for the house, especially with the mortgages requiring 20% going forward. Yet venues, in general, arent allowing us to have the small wedding. This accounts for the majority of venues in Ireland. I know, ive been to plenty. Theres a stigma about where you have your wedding in society. Its a crying shame that people are taken advantage so much in this happy time.

You're a dude? :eek:

I cannot understand why discreet, intimate weddings are not considered a nice thing? apart from the fact they should cost less, because weddings do cost, but it shouldn't be about societal expectations and crass expenditure, as much as I wish I had the money for expenditure, if I had I wouldn't throw it at wedding costs.

tt2014 wrote: »

I used a wedding planner, saved us a fortune and she wasn't even that expensive, I hate haggling!

I cant see how that saves much money,

Electric Sheep

xpletiv wrote: »

There are some great suggestions in this thread and I thank you for that, some of which I will definitely be looking into and mentioning to the other half, but I gotta say there are some absolute morons in here as well who either just seem up for the troll or... you can see the vested interests Or perhaps since ABajanCork felt the need to point out that I was male, the self entitlement of women to spend their mens money (im kidding ladies, chill. Go to tumblr if you want to preach your feminism).

To anyone that thinks that the words wedding coming out of peoples mouths dont just send euro signs across the signs of those that own the businesses, kop on. To anyone that thinks that you dont have to have a particular standard of wedding in this country, kop on, youd be laughed at by friends and family for the decades to come. Theres a mentality engrained into us due to the celtic tiger and that unfortunately is still being peddled by the suppliers. I feel like everywhere literally tries to take advantage. The mark up on weddings in absurd.

I want a small wedding and to keep the money for the house, especially with the mortgages requiring 20% going forward. Yet venues, in general, arent allowing us to have the small wedding. This accounts for the majority of venues in Ireland. I know, ive been to plenty. Theres a stigma about where you have your wedding in society. Its a crying shame that people are taken advantage so much in this happy time.

You are whining about the cost and the ripoff of the wedding industry, while buying into the idea that you have to have a certain type of wedding or you will be ridiculed?

I think your problem is that you have swallowed the wedding industry's marketing hype. Did you pay two months' salary for an engagement ring as well because DeBeers told you to?

Believe it or not, you won't be ridiculed for not staging a Kardashian extravaganze. Nobody except the couple being married really give that much of a rats about the wedding, its all in your head.

Sleepy

cerastes wrote: »

I cant see how that saves much money,

They'll get you a "€70,000" Wedding for "only" €40k

tt2014

well I did some shopping around and what would have cost me over 15k I got for 10k so it was worth paying a few hundred for the service, granted I could have tired to haggle but im useless

cerastes

tt2014 wrote: »

well I did some shopping around and what would have cost me over 15k I got for 10k so it was worth paying a few hundred for the service, granted I could have tired to haggle but im useless

If you think its worth it and have the money, fair enough.
It sounds like a more expensive thing than a few hundred, is a few hundred 7?
I cant see what they are doing isnt humanly possible for others, but as you point out, some dont want to haggle or maybe not over their wedding, getting a planner might suit them to do their dirty work ermm, I mean haggling for them (kidding).
So long as you were happy and you felt it was worthwhile, all the same, I consider 10K acceptable if you can afford it or 5 if someone can afford it, but not if they cant, to me there is a limit, after a certain point, if it cant be afforded then there is simply no point splurging for one day.

Toots

OP has gotten info that he wanted so I'm locking the thread.