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Hi vis discussion thread (read post #1)

Iwannahurl

MOD VOICE: So as not to take up room on the helmet thread I have taken out the last few pages of hi vis related material and put it together here. All material or threads relating specifically to hi vis will be moved in here or locked if it repeats what is already said in here. There are a few off topic posts but from now on if we could keep the discussion to Hi Vis, and related topics.

Cram

Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar was interviewed by Sean O'Rourke on RTE Radio 1 this morning.

Questions were submitted by listeners, and someone asked whether hi-viz and helmets were to be made mandatory for cyclists.

The Minister's response (paraphrased) was "hi-viz possibly, but the evidence is not great that helmets have a big impact on road safety."

I have mixed views on that response. The situation with helmets has been well rehearsed in this thread -- evidence of modest benefit versus anti-cycling effect of mandatory laws -- but it's odd that the Minister might consider making hi-viz mandatory given that there is no evidence (to date) that it reduces casualties.

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BrianHenryIE

Hunterbiker wrote: »

I think you can contacr the RSA directly either via email or check their facebook page.

Thanks. I'd seen another thread saying people we having trouble getting them this season, but I placed an order on their website at the weekend and it was delivered Wednesday.

The backpack cover will help keep my backpack dry and remove the opportunity for motorists to blame me for their own incompetence.

CramCycle

On the way home tonight I passed 3 cars with no lights. I passed 2 cyclists with the same. I seen all of them, in time. I did see two cyclists with lights earlier and more noticeably much like I seen the taxi with hazards on earlier. I noticed the cars with lights on once a line of sight was there, cars with no lights was reduced to approx 25m, may have been further but didn't fully register I think. I also noticed some pedestrians out for walks. Some had hi vis, some didn't, no memorable difference as to when they were seen. One cyclists had hi vis but I did not note this until he passed me and stopped at the lights. I only noticed due to the design, I had overtaken him earlier (memorably bright light) but hadn't noticed the hi vis but then again my car has correctly aligned lights and dimmed in built up areas.

Pinch Flat

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I honestly think they do. I mean how dare you be out on the street if not driving in the first place. And if you are not driving you should be dressed in a stupid colour and it's still your fault if someone runs you over because of their inability to observe properly.

I subscribe to the road safety authority page on Facebook. They do campaigns from time to time where free lights are given away for sharing safety tips. It's covered elsewhere in this forum.

I checked in tonight and there are 167 comments on the latest free lights campaign. Out of those, there's a huge amount of people requesting cyclists to wear hi vis so they can be seen. I don't have time or the patience to trawl back through each of the comments, but a cursory inspection there's no mention of people requesting motorists watching out for cyclists, regardless of the clothing they're wearing. I even entered a debate there with some numpty claiming that if he hit a cyclist wearing headphones, that he was somehow absolved of responsibility as the cyclist should have heard him coming.

We've created this culture where the responsibility is being quickly shifted from those in the machines that kill several hundred a year to those on bikes that don't. Victim blaming seems to be the norm rather than the exception.

tomasrojo

I find it increasingly difficult to take them seriously.

Cookie_Monster

tomasrojo wrote: »

On a more general note about Hi Glo Silver:
Does the RSA really expect pedestrians to wear "reflective" (by which I presume they mean fluorescent with reflective stripes) clothing during the day? Do they foresee a future in which most people actually do this? Do they really want primary school children to harrass their parents into dressing like binmen every time they leave the house without car keys?

I honestly think they do. I mean how dare you be out on the street if not driving in the first place. And if you are not driving you should be dressed in a stupid colour and it's still your fault if someone runs you over because of their inability to observe properly.

tomasrojo

Hi Glo Silver has this bit of advice:

If there is no footpath, walk facing traffic and as far to the right as possible.

That's not right. That's standard advice on a straight stretch, but if you are walking into a blind bend that curves to the right, you really should be on the left, and then switch over once you're round the bend.

On a more general note about Hi Glo Silver:
Does the RSA really expect pedestrians to wear "reflective" (by which I presume they mean fluorescent with reflective stripes) clothing during the day? Do they foresee a future in which most people actually do this? Do they really want primary school children to harrass their parents into dressing like binmen every time they leave the house without car keys?

Iwannahurl

I'm not sure how long the RSA has been running this specific campaign, but today my child brought home a poster from school which featured this immortal verse:

The Hi Glo Silver Pledge
When I walk or cycle, night or day,
after school or when I go to play,
I promise to make sure that I am seen,
in reflective clothing that is bright orange, yellow or green.

According to the RSA's Seatbelt Sheriff website, "Hi Glo Silver's job is to encourage second class pupils [sic] to wear bright or reflective clothes when out walking or cycling."

Meanwhile, in evidence-based territory, a recent and long overdue survey by the Department of Transport found that just 14% of all housing estates nationally have speed ramps, with 30 km/h special speed limits imposed in another 135, or just 1.5% of all housing estates in the country. Dublin city has implemented a 30 km/h speed limit in only three residential areas. Source: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/30kmh-speed-limit-planned-for-housing-estates-30668342.html

The legislation enabling the implementation of 30 km/h Special Speed Limits is a decade old this year.

No prizes, but would anyone like to have a go at writing a ditty like the one above? The aim is to "encourage" Local Authorities to acknowledge the existence of the 2004 legislation, get off their arses, and start implementing this measure which, unlike hivisteria, has been proven to significantly reduce road casualties, especially among children.

check_six

Snickers Man wrote: »

Saw a guy knocked off his bike at the junction of Mespil Road and Sussex Terrace this evening.

He was cycling East to West along Mespil Road. Car in front of me was waiting to turn right out of Sussex Terrace on to Mespil Road. Driver was looking mainly to his left (I'm guessing) to look out for traffic coming from the nearby lights into the lane he was looking to turn into. Along comes cyclist. Yes, he had a light on his bike but he was wearing a dark jacket and a dark hat on a
wet night. The driver never saw him and broadsided him as he pulled out.

I saw a similar accident at the same spot a while back. I was waiting to turn right from Sussex Terrace and a taxi squeezed up the left hand side to turn left. A lady on a bike was coming towards us from Mespil Road. I saw her clearly enough. She had a decent front light.

I'm waiting for her to pass, but, as there is no other traffic, and he hasn't bothered to check to his right, or wonder why I'm not moving, the taximan starts to move out. He hits her as she is directly in front of his car and stops immediately. She doesn't get knocked off the bike, and he apologises as she starts off again.

Then he turns to me with this cruel smirk on his face and raised his eyes to heaven as if to say "what's her problem? Jumping in front of my car like that!". I called out to him to say that his observation was just not good enough and that he never looked. His smirking face fell and contorted again into something you might see in a Lord of the Rings movie and he told me to mind my own effing business and drove off.

So he'd made a major error, but he was completely unfazed by his own lack of awareness, blaming the other party immediately. Horrible to see in a "professional" driver.

The lady did have a dayglo yellow tabard, by the way, which you could just make out as she was stopped in front of the taxi.

Beasty

Deleted User wrote: »

As usual we've got from actual case of cyclist knocked down by idiot in a car to "cyclists break lights all the time and someone nearly hit someone else this morning" anecdote within about three posts.

You could set your clock by it.

Tenzor07 wrote: »

That's how all these types of threads go, didn't you know!

Rambling Man wrote: »

I always think this thread should be bright yellow coloured so we can find it easily.

And it's part of the reason for confining this sort of stuff to megathreads. That way those posters who have heard it all before can steer clear and we can jump in and tell people to stay on topic when they head off on a tangent like this;)

Rambling Man

Tenzor07 wrote: »

That's how all these types of threads go, didn't you know!

I always think this thread should be bright yellow coloured so we can find it easily.

Tenzor07

Deleted User wrote: »

As usual we've got from actual case of cyclist knocked down by idiot in a car to "cyclists break lights all the time and someone nearly hit someone else this morning" anecdote within about three posts..

That's how all these types of threads go, didn't you know!

RayCun

Deleted User wrote: »

As usual we've got from actual case of cyclist knocked down by idiot in a car to "cyclists break lights all the time and someone nearly hit someone else this morning" anecdote within about three posts.

:rolleyes:
I posted just before that to give out about drivers breaking lights and how much it pissed me off. I will make a mental note that when I think about cars breaking red lights I am not allowed be reminded of the last time I saw dangerous red light breaking, if on that occasion the ****ing idiot was a cyclist. And if I am unable to flush that down the memory hole, god forbid I say it out loud :eek:

Pinch Flat

CramCycle wrote: »

There are two spots, either side of the back of my head, whereby on hearing this, a dull ache began, presumably in sheer shock at what passes for acceptable levels of intelligence for operators of motorised vehicles in Irish society today.

If ever there's a case for an IQ test, or at the very least an assessment of brain stem function prior to allowing someone behind the wheel, it is this.

[Deleted User]

RayCun wrote: »

extends to cyclists too though - running into work yesterday, crossing at a pedestrian lights. On my right there's two lanes coming down a hill, lot of cars and vans in the right-hand lane, cyclist using the left lane. He can see me crossing the road, and can see that he won't hit me, but he can't see the pedestrian crossing from the other side and she can't see him either. But hey - it's the bottom of a hill - if he stopped at the red light he'd lose all that momentum :eek:

As usual we've got from actual case of cyclist knocked down by idiot in a car to "cyclists break lights all the time and someone nearly hit someone else this morning" anecdote within about three posts.

You could set your clock by it.

Pinch Flat

The above case (cyclist being knocked down) illustrates the over reliance on hi-vis which is seen as the panacea by some cyclists and drivers.

Gives me even more confidence in my front lenzyne on strobe - has definitely made a driver look twice before pulling out, but still I never get complacent.

CramCycle

nak wrote: »

My husband overheard a worrying conversation between a woman and her friend who had just clipped a cyclist - her excuse was that it is too difficult to watch out for everyone on the roads these days as there are so many people around walking, cycling, driving etc.

There are two spots, either side of the back of my head, whereby on hearing this, a dull ache began, presumably in sheer shock at what passes for acceptable levels of intelligence for operators of motorised vehicles in Irish society today.

RayCun

extends to cyclists too though - running into work yesterday, crossing at a pedestrian lights. On my right there's two lanes coming down a hill, lot of cars and vans in the right-hand lane, cyclist using the left lane. He can see me crossing the road, and can see that he won't hit me, but he can't see the pedestrian crossing from the other side and she can't see him either. But hey - it's the bottom of a hill - if he stopped at the red light he'd lose all that momentum :eek:

Tenzor07

RayCun wrote: »

the main threat to my health is that I'll have an apoplectic fit next time some ****er goes through a red light like it isn't even there.

Yea me too, I nearly got clipped by someone in an Audi A4 yesterday...

RayCun

nak wrote: »

Well of course it is, but I see a huge amount of people driving and not paying attention; have seen the usual mobile phones, shaving, make-up application, newspaper on the steering wheel, someone using a laptop and even a woman using heated curling tongs while driving around Dundrum roundabout in heavy traffic (funnily enough she didn't see me already on the roundabout when she pulled out).

Drives me nuts.
Forget the high-vis, helmets and lights - the main threat to my health is that I'll have an apoplectic fit next time some ****er goes through a red light like it isn't even there.

nak

buffalo wrote: »

I think it's idiotic not to look properly where you're going when you're driving. But maybe that's just me.

Well of course it is, but I see a huge amount of people driving and not paying attention; have seen the usual mobile phones, shaving, make-up application, newspaper on the steering wheel, someone using a laptop and even a woman using heated curling tongs while driving around Dundrum roundabout in heavy traffic (funnily enough she didn't see me already on the roundabout when she pulled out).

My husband overheard a worrying conversation between a woman and her friend who had just clipped a cyclist - her excuse was that it is too difficult to watch out for everyone on the roads these days as there are so many people around walking, cycling, driving etc.

buffalo

Snickers Man wrote: »

Driver probably at fault for not looking properly but if the cyclist had been more visible he might have been seen if the driver had given a cursory glance. I didn't see him myself until the last minute. Maybe the driver DID look and just didn't see the guy.

I think it's idiotic to cycle in the dark without reflective or high viz clothing. This experience only confirms it for me.

Just saying.

I think it's idiotic not to look properly where you're going when you're driving. But maybe that's just me.

tomasrojo

This old post is about bikes approaching cars from the right, but it's on a road with a single streetlight, making it almost the worst scenario for hi-viz performance.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88506257&postcount=12

EDIT: My point in this context isn't as good as I thought: I see that jacket in the film didn't have reflective stripes. It probably would have been more visible if it had, due to the single streetlight. Not as much as a good front light though.

tomasrojo

Snickers Man wrote: »

Saw a guy knocked off his bike at the junction of Mespil Road and Sussex Terrace this evening.

He was cycling East to West along Mespil Road. Car in front of me was waiting to turn right out of Sussex Terrace on to Mespil Road. Driver was looking mainly to his left (I'm guessing) to look out for traffic coming from the nearby lights into the lane he was looking to turn into. Along comes cyclist. Yes, he had a light on his bike but he was wearing a dark jacket and a dark hat on a wet night. The driver never saw him and broadsided him as he pulled out.

If it had been dusk, you'd have a stronger point. Since car headlights cast to the left and the cyclist was approaching the car from the car's right, the reflective strips on any jacket would not have been very visible, maybe some diffuse reflection from ambient light. Nothing to compare with a good, strong, modern bike headlight with fresh batteries. Ergo, the cyclist, if he needed anything, needed a better headlight.

Hunterbiker

brian.henry wrote: »

Where can I pick up the free RSA high-viz in or near town? Particularly the backpack cover. I know the Gardaí give them out, but I never seem to know about that until it's too late.

The backpack cover should help protect my bag from the rain.

I think you can contacr the RSA directly either via email or check their facebook page.

BrianHenryIE

Where can I pick up the free RSA high-viz in or near town? Particularly the backpack cover. I know the Gardaí give them out, but I never seem to know about that until it's too late.

The backpack cover should help protect my bag from the rain.

Snickers Man

Saw a guy knocked off his bike at the junction of Mespil Road and Sussex Terrace this evening.

He was cycling East to West along Mespil Road. Car in front of me was waiting to turn right out of Sussex Terrace on to Mespil Road. Driver was looking mainly to his left (I'm guessing) to look out for traffic coming from the nearby lights into the lane he was looking to turn into. Along comes cyclist. Yes, he had a light on his bike but he was wearing a dark jacket and a dark hat on a wet night. The driver never saw him and broadsided him as he pulled out.

Given he was hit from a standing start, the cyclist was lucky. He seemed to have a bruised shoulder although his bike didn't loo too healthy but he got up straight away and hobbled about holding his shoulder. Driver got out to look after him and a few pedestrians stopped as well.

Driver probably at fault for not looking properly but if the cyclist had been more visible he might have been seen if the driver had given a cursory glance. I didn't see him myself until the last minute. Maybe the driver DID look and just didn't see the guy.

I think it's idiotic to cycle in the dark without reflective or high viz clothing. This experience only confirms it for me.

Just saying.

RainyDay

buffalo wrote: »

I was hiking in Glendalough at the weekend, and there was a group of Cub scouts or perhaps school children doing some activities in a large field by the upper lake - here: https://goo.gl/maps/64KeL

Each and every one of the children was bedecked in a hi-viz vest. :rolleyes:

While it might not have made much sense in the field, it probably made some sense if they were queuing for the St Kevins bus on Dawson St.

CramCycle

In my daughters school they make them wear pink caps and/or pink bum bags, take the cap off on a trip and its detention. The only thing I have against hi-vis as said above in these situations is if everyone does it, it doesn't really work.

ThisRegard

buffalo wrote: »

I was hiking in Glendalough at the weekend, and there was a group of Cub scouts or perhaps school children doing some activities in a large field by the upper lake - here: https://goo.gl/maps/64KeL

Each and every one of the children was bedecked in a hi-viz vest. :rolleyes:

Yeah, it's the thing now, I mentioned a few pages back about similar groups in the Zoo.

I can't wait to read the headlines when several groups of school kids meet together in the one place and half them end up back in the wrong counties after they just followed the nearest high vis bedecked kids to the wrong bus.

buffalo

I was hiking in Glendalough at the weekend, and there was a group of Cub scouts or perhaps school children doing some activities in a large field by the upper lake - here: https://goo.gl/maps/64KeL

Each and every one of the children was bedecked in a hi-viz vest. :rolleyes: