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ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE

Crann na Beatha

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Comments

Irish Steve

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You mentioned your father in an earlier post, and his role in the water industry. Would you like it if people referred to him in the terms which you apply to every politician in the country and to IW staff and staff in other state bodies? You may have some expertise in water matters but your attitude to other people in general is just the same as many of self appointed experts on everything who turn up here to condemn all and sundry.

If I try to engage with organisations, and get either no reply, or a reply with no subsequent action, am I supposed to just sit back and smile sweetly? My father was out at all hours at times of flood risk, taking action to do as much as he could to prevent problems. We've not had the same response from Meath CC, probably because I couldn't threaten them with barristers and legal action, which was what another house on this estate did, and the result was every time it rained significantly, there was a pair of large tankers pumping water at a cost of at least €70 per hour per tanker outside that house. We got NOTHING, except a flood and the subsequent heartaches.

Twice in 2 years, our house was flooded as a DIRECT result of the incompetence and malpractice of Meath County Council, on the second occasion, we had to move out for 7 months while the entire ground floor was rebuilt and repaired, and we've never fully recovered from that event.

As for politicians, I've seen better performances at the Abbey theatre than we got in the Dail yesterday, I am ashamed to be represented by some of the people that we saw "in action " yesterday.

The local Meath CC operatives have all agreed that the issue is clear, and that it should not have happened, and should not have been allowed, but getting the people at higher levels on fat salaries and pensions and bonuses to DO something about it has proved to be a head wrecking and soul destroying battle. I don't have an issue with the local on the ground people, but the ones above, too damn right I do, from the local engineer right up to the county manager.

Irish Water are now responsible for both water and waste water infrastructure since October 1. So , I have written them a polite mail asking them to contact me to discuss the problems. Their published code of practice states very clearly that they will respond initially within 5 days, and provide a proposed resolution within 2 months, it's on their web site.

They have failed at the first hurdle, and having had to have to deal with a large number of people in numerous semi states over the last few years, I am completely disillusioned with the capability and capacity of those semi states to do the basic job that they are there for.

It's not hard to respond with an acknowledgement to an email within 5 days, especially if that's what your mission statement says you will do, and at this stage, IW have had plenty of time to get their act together, and set up the basic structure, and god knows, they've spent enough money on doing it, so it is meant to work,

It doesn't, so yes, I am going to be VERY vocal about their lack of commitment, engagement, and response.

I know you have not been treated well to date with the water supply to your house, but I could point to the exact opposite for the 30,000 plus population of Dundalk. Good water here after massive investment to bring the supply from Co Monaghan. Before that the town depended on a 100 year old resevoir which was totally inadequate, leading to rationing every summer.

The water supply to the house is not the issue, it's bad, but I've spent the money necessary to make it usable, without complaining so far, but that was because we were not being specifically charged for it. There were all manner of issues with low pressure, water the colour of Guinness, supply restrictions overnight to allow the local reservoir to refill, but we've not complained too much about those.

Now they are charging for it, I expect it to be supplied in line with the EU directives and if it is not in line with them, then they are out of order expecting to be paid at the same level as for water that is within specifications. But, as I said a moment ago, that is NOT the issue I am so wound up about

My issue with IW is that they too are not responding in accordance with their published standards. As a new organisation, with very little real work to be doing yet, they should be well able to respond to customer issues. They are not, and yes, it IS that simple. The reason I am VERY unhappy is that I've lived with the stress of having to be on full alert every time there's heavy rain in order to be ready to take instant action if someone's discarded Christmas tree, or grass cuttings, or whatever, ends up jammed under the sewer downstream from us. It was bad enough when I was 40, having to spend maybe 12 hours checking for blockages every few minutes, at the wrong side of 60, it's no longer acceptable. The fact that we had €120K damage done by an overflow from the local (badly designed and overloaded) sewer in 2002 was the final insult, and some of those issues are still not resolved. They are now IW's responsibility.

dxhound2005

Highflyer13 wrote: »

Has it ever crossed your mind that people maybe cant afford to pay after the absolute pillaging we have got in the last 6 years? I really think some posters have not been a bit affected by recession and are taking glee in seeing others suffer. These same people would probably tell you the hospitals are grand and deny the housing crisis exists.

My god its so bloody easy for you isn't it! Unreal, get down out of your ivory tower.

I have outlined a few times how much I am down in my take home pay since the pay freeze of 2008 and the pay cuts in 2010. I am for property tax and water charges because I am a PAYE taxpayer.

If the budget had reduced the Child Benefit by €5 instead of increasing it, World War 3 would have broken out and Liveline would have been extended to 5 hours. But a €5 increase, that's no good Joe, what about the water tax Joe.
So I don't judge the overall position of the population in general by the continual outrage and moaning from the usual quarters.

Shrap

Where's the option for "I support the water charges, but will not pay the water charges"?

That's me like. I think it's a good idea to pay for services like this separately, but cannot allow the state to fcuk up on my money the way they do. Can't trust the councils with money, can't watch them going on junkets away abroad to "research" something, can't abide another (yet another) Denis O'Brien Quango. Fcuk em. Let them sort themselves out before I pay, even if I agree that the charges are necessary. Let them take pay cuts, let them sign contracts for one job/one pension, let them be accountable for the jobs they do, let them make promises about that and KEEP those promises before I'll sign any contract to do the same. And can we get rid of at least half the staff in every county council please? Then I'll pay for services.

Bob24

Highflyer13 wrote: »

My god its so bloody easy for you isn't it! Unreal, get down out of your ivory tower.

Help me come down from my tower then.

How would you correct my statement that it will be unsustainable for a tenant not to pay because their landlord will not want to pay for them and force the tenant to either pay the bill or leave?

Believe me I can see (an experience) the housing crisis. But as a tenant I very well know how powerless it makes people when discussing with a landlord. I am wondering what type of tower you live in yourself ...

Shrap

Irish Steve wrote: »

I sent them an E-mail that's not water or meter related, as they are supposedly also responsible now for waste water infrastructure, and in theory, according to their web site and the guff that's on it, they are supposed to respond within 5 days. That 5 days, (working days, so 7 in reality) expired this evening, and they've not even acknowledged receipt of the E-mail, let alone responded to it.

You don't get a second chance to make a first impression, as far as I'm concerned now, IW is just another semi state quango stuffed with the dead wood that the local authorities were desperate to get shot of, and it can't even perform the basic tasks that it was set up to perform.

Ha! In all fairness, you could have picked a better week for a first impression. To my knowledge, their email/postal capacity is already running at a 2 1/2 week delay due to the number of folks looking for their pin numbers back again after throwing them out. I'm sure they will respond to your question when you're next in the 3 week queue.....

Highflyer13

Bob24 wrote: »

Help me come down from my tower then.

How would you correct my statement that it will be unsustainable for a tenant not to pay because their landlord will not want to pay for them and force the tenant to either pay the bill or leave?

Believe me I can see (an experience) the housing crisis. But as a tenant I very well know how powerless it makes people when discussing with a landlord. I am wondering what tower you live in yourself ...

Im a tenant myself and I am reluctant to pay the water charges. I've had the discussion with my landlord and he has told me it will be my responsibility but he knows I am dead against it. As we are getting a extremely good deal on our apartment, I wouldn't want to strain the relationship with the landlord and come January if he formally requests Im between a rock and a hard place. I do not want to hand over my PPS easily.

My plan is to see how it plays out over the coming months. The protest movement seems to be growing by day and I am seeing the build up of bad press towards IW in run up to them going live with their first round of charges.

Mrs Garth Brooks

I have the same pair of shoes for over two years. I haven't cut my hair in over a year. I put on a bit of weight and can't hardly close my pants, I wear a belt instead to close it around my waist.

I don't drink, I don't smoke, I hardly go out with the expense of getting home and paying taxis from town.

I can't afford an extra bill or sharing of one.

Pay for water, and i have to choose between shoes, hair, pants or a Garth brooks ticket if he comes back.

dxhound2005

Mrs Garth Brooks wrote: »

I have the same pair of shoes for over two years. I haven't cut my hair in over a year. I put on a bit of weight and can't hardly close my pants, I wear a belt instead to close it around my waist.

I don't drink, I don't smoke, I hardly go out with the expense of getting home and paying taxis from town.

I can't afford an extra bill or sharing of one.

Pay for water, and i have to choose between shoes, hair, pants or a Garth brooks ticket if he comes back.

Choose shoes.

Shrap

Mrs Garth Brooks wrote: »

I have the same pair of shoes for over two years. I haven't cut my hair in over a year. I put on a bit of weight and can't hardly close my pants, I wear a belt instead to close it around my waist.

I don't drink, I don't smoke, I hardly go out with the expense of getting home and paying taxis from town.

I can't afford an extra bill or sharing of one.

Pay for water, and i have to choose between shoes, hair, pants or a Garth brooks ticket if he comes back.

Go to a charity shop for 2 euro jeans, get a friend to cut your hair and avoid Garth Brooks (I do all those). Also, get a bike from a car boot sale and save on taxi's. Nobody goes out any more, and hairdresser hair is a luxury you can't afford if you're broke. Been my life for the last 15 yrs. That way you at least can pay the bills you agree to, whatever about the ones you don't.

Bob24

Highflyer13 wrote: »

Im a tenant myself and I am reluctant to pay the water charges. I've had the discussion with my landlord and he has told me it will be my responsibility but he knows I am dead against it. As we are getting a extremely good deal on our apartment, I wouldn't want to strain the relationship with the landlord and come January if he formally requests Im between a rock and a hard place. I do not want to hand over my PPS easily.

My plan is to see how it plays out over the coming months. The protest movement seems to be growing by day and I am seeing the build up of bad press towards IW in run up to them going live with their first round of charges.

Your story is exactly what I was talking about. As a tenant you have a weak hand versus your landlord because you don't want to leave your place but know it is easy for them to find another tenant which would pay higher rent. And you also know that if you don't pay they will be liable for the charge and come to you for an explanation - which basically gives you no choice but to pay.

The only difference between us is that you think stating this is living in an ivory tower, whereas I think it is being realistic. Let's talk again in January ...

And really, I do not enjoy seing people suffering and don't live in luxury myself. But I personally don't think this fight is the right one and I maintain people are protesting against these charges for purely selfish reasons. I would much rather pay for the water I am using and know I can easily find decent affordable housing if I need to move rather than the other way around.

Hijpo

Mrs Garth Brooks wrote: »

I have the same pair of shoes for over two years. I haven't cut my hair in over a year. I put on a bit of weight and can't hardly close my pants, I wear a belt instead to close it around my waist.

I don't drink, I don't smoke, I hardly go out with the expense of getting home and paying taxis from town.

I can't afford an extra bill or sharing of one.

Pay for water, and i have to choose between shoes, hair, pants or a Garth brooks ticket if he comes back.

You put on weight? you have to much money to be able to buy so much food. Stop eating and give the money to the government
:pac:

Phoebas

Shrap wrote: »

Go to a charity shop for 2 euro jeans, get a friend to cut your hair and avoid Garth Brooks (I do all those). Also, get a bike from a car boot sale and save on taxi's.

Let's not go crazy here.

[Deleted User]

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Choose shoes.

Feck shoes. Garth Brooks tickets every time!

Shrap

Jaysus, maybe I'm just bitter, but I didn't go to Imelda May in Galway, HotChip in Dublin and recently Underworld in London BECAUSE I HAVE BILLS. And second hand clothes to buy, for me and the kids. It's not Garth Brooks I have a problem with, it's the sense of entitlement to go to see him.

Hijpo

Shrap wrote: »

Jaysus, maybe I'm just bitter, but I didn't go to Imelda May in Galway, HotChip in Dublin and recently Underworld in London BECAUSE I HAVE BILLS. And second hand clothes to buy, for me and the kids. It's not Garth Brooks I have a problem with, it's the sense of entitlement to go to see him.

Would you be content with doing a 39 hour week, giving your entire wage packet to the government in return for an allowance from them to limit you you the charity shops and the rest you listed?

Shrap

Hijpo wrote: »

Would you be content with doing a 39 hour week, giving your entire wage packet to the government in return for an allowance from them to limit you you the charity shops and the rest you listed?

Nobody on that money is content hon, including me. Don't know where you got that idea. Just saying that the bigger pants/shoes/hairdresser/Garth Brooks choice is a matter of priorities.

Mrs Garth Brooks

Shrap wrote: »

Jaysus, maybe I'm just bitter, but I didn't go to Imelda May in Galway, HotChip in Dublin and recently Underworld in London BECAUSE I HAVE BILLS. And second hand clothes to buy, for me and the kids. It's not Garth Brooks I have a problem with, it's the sense of entitlement to go to see him.

Feck the bills. You have one life.

Shrap

Mrs Garth Brooks wrote: »

Feck the bills. You have one life.

O...K. Over and out ;-)

Hijpo

Shrap wrote: »

Nobody on that money is content hon, including me. Don't know where you got that idea. Just saying that the bigger pants/shoes/hairdresser/Garth Brooks choice is a matter of priorities.

Absolutely its about priorities, however when your working and paying every tax and charged demanded of you and government still come back for more its only a matter of time before Mr Brooks is not even in the equation its simply down to do i pay gas, electricity or water even though you already contribute a large proportion of your income aswell as disposable income only to see news of big bonuses, golden handshakes and cronyism to name but a few.

After this budget Enda Kenny, who is on more than the president of the United States, stands to benefit to the tune of €746 where as a low income family on €30,000 a year benefits by €174 which will be taken back through water charges.
Either you stick your head in the sand and dont pay attention to what goes on in government or you know and dont see anything wrong with it, in that case you have no real concept of what priorities are.

[Deleted User]

Hijpo wrote: »

Absolutely its about priorities, however when your working and paying every tax and charged demanded of you and government still come back for more its only a matter of time before Mr Brooks is not even in the equation its simply down to do i pay gas, electricity or water even though you already contribute a large proportion of your income aswell as disposable income only to see news of big bonuses, golden handshakes and cronyism to name but a few.

After this budget Enda Kenny, who is on more than the president of the United States, stands to benefit to the tune of €746 where as a low income family on €30,000 a year benefits by €174 which will be taken back through water charges.
Either you stick your head in the sand and dont pay attention to what goes on in government or you know and dont see anything wrong with it, in that case you have no real concept of what priorities are.

Barak Obama lives in the White House and has a Summer House. Enda doesn't. When comparing wages, include benefits too, in order to get a clear picture.

Iwasfrozen

These sort of measures (including IW and the hated and cruel USC) would not be needed were it politically possible to widen the tax band to include lower income workers as other European countries do.

Everyone should pay some income tax. Even a rate of 15-20% for those under 35k and 10% for those on the dole would help losen things a great deal.

Iwasfrozen

Mrs Garth Brooks wrote: »

Feck the bills. You have one life.

Tell it to the judge.

Hijpo

Deleted User wrote: »

Barak Obama lives in the White House and has a Summer House. Enda doesn't. When comparing wages, include benefits too, in order to get a clear picture.

Oh yes, your right. All enda does is stay in his tiny office, sleeping in a bag under his desk for a measily 185K.

Would three large pensions come under benefits?
Does enda (and ministers) have two personal drivers who work one week on, one week off but get paid for both?

etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

Barely There

Mrs Garth Brooks wrote: »

I have the same pair of shoes for over two years. I haven't cut my hair in over a year. I put on a bit of weight and can't hardly close my pants, I wear a belt instead to close it around my waist.

Pay for water, and i have to choose between shoes, hair, pants or a Garth brooks ticket if he comes back.

There are starving people around the world relishing the delicious irony of you complaining about not being able to afford clothes to encompass your expanding waistline.

Well, they would be if they could afford an internet connection.

First World problems.

[Deleted User]

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Tell it to the judge.

She's fcuked if the Judge is a Bryan Adams fan!

Iwasfrozen

Hijpo wrote: »

Oh yes, your right. All enda does is stay in his tiny office, sleeping in a bag under his desk for a measily 185K.

Would three large pensions come under benefits?
Does enda (and ministers) have two personal drivers who work one week on, one week off but get paid for both?

etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

By that logic I assume you believe teachers shouldn't be paid during summer holidays?

Iwasfrozen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

She's fcuked if the Judge is a Bryan Adams fan!

Eww

VEN

wheres theres 5 tenants occupying an apartment, it says please call Lo-Call 1890 to add more names to bill, as theres just one space asking for First Name
and not First Name, can you just put Occupiers on it as the way it came without pps numbers? will it be a case of pulling straws as to whose name goes on it? should be all names, but Occupiers would be easier.

I mean it would effectively be telling them the property is Occupied, so should be enough surely. They havent thought of this with strangers living together.
F*** it, just ignore it i suppose, they havent even got separate meters sorted plus some of the apartments didnt even get a form! its all a mess

Hijpo

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

By that logic I assume you believe teachers shouldn't be paid during summer holidays?

You have a rubbish concept of logic and thats a worse attempt to draw focus away from spending on priorities to an argument about teachers :rolleyes: pointless.

I believe people who can well afford to surround themselves with luxury should not be assisted further with more expenses and allowances while dictating that the country and economy are f***ed so a certain class will have to cough up a few more bob from their disposable income.

Banjo String

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

By that logic I assume you believe teachers shouldn't be paid during summer holidays?

I think the logic was lost on you tbh.

Do you think it's right a ministerial driver gets 55k for working 6 months of the year? (26 weeks tbp)

Nice work if one can get it.