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ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE

Crann na Beatha

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end of 31st dáil

denis o’brien

Comments

hiFidelity

Barely There wrote: »

I'd like to hear more about the time Hitler went to work for Nasa and met the Aliens.

sorry I can't post links. Im a newbie here.

just Google 'Operation Paperclip'

FREETV

Well they are the only hope we have as the Independents there aren't enough of them and they wouldn't be able to win enough seats in the election for the Dail and the other three are blatant liars and serve themselves and the Elites only.

It is either Sinn Fein win a majority of seats which is unlikely or they form a Coalition Government with Fianna Fail in the next election.

FREETV

VinLieger wrote: »

The 2nd part of your post not the first is ironically the evidence that you will believe anything

The majority of this Country believes in God and he doesn't even exist.

humanji

Folks, this is not the alien life thread, it's the water charge thread. Stick to the topic.

EDIT: and I'll also add conspiracy theories to the growing list of stuff this thread isn't about.

VinLieger

FREETV wrote: »

The majority of this Country believes in God and he doesn't even exist.

True, and a lot of people don't believe in the water charges and they do exist, just shows there are people willing to believe or not believe anything as long as it suit's their own personal view of the world and how they want it to work

FREETV

Yes but the bills don't start rolling out until January and even if the protestors lose, the feckers in power will be shot out of the Dail like a bullet after the next election as the people are finally waking up to reality and have had enough and will vote for anybody else and they will lose the majority of their seats.

Irish Steve

FREETV wrote: »

Yes but the bills don't start rolling out until January and even if the protestors lose, the feckers in power will be shot out of the Dail like a bullet after the next election as the people are finally waking up to reality and have had enough and will vote for anybody else and they will lose the majority of their seats.

And that's the most depressing aspect of this whole scenario. What this controversy has made abundantly clear is the total lack of real alternatives in the political arena.

FF should still be unelectable, if people care to actually think about just what they did to the country.

FG are looking more and more like a blue FF, they have been so arrogant in how they have dealt with the electorate, and so bad at delivering on even the simplest of the reforms they promised, they don't deserve to be automatically put back into power again, unless there are some real and meaningful changes from the top down.

Labour, Not really sure what they actually stand for any more, and with their position open to being massively compromised by the vested interests in the unions, who have a stranglehold on so many critical services, I don't trust them

SF. Too much baggage, too many unresolved issues, too many nebulous policies to even want to think about having them in any position of power.

Independents. Have you ever tried herding cats? A large group of independents will be about as manageable, and government requires some clarity and policy to make it work.

Where does that leave us? Up sh1t creek without a paddle. that's where.

How can it improve? Maybe if we had a proper electronic voting system that could be used for other purposes like referenda, without the hassles of voting stations and the like, and if we had a requirement that a petition signed by more than a given % of the population requires a referendum, that might help.

A major company has to present audited accounts every year, and they have to be approved by the shareholders at the AGM. Ireland INC is the biggest company, and we're all involved, but there are no checks and balances on the people running the company, other than the chance to throw them all out once every 5 years. There's something wrong here.

The remuneration package for directors also has to be approved by the shareholders, and that's another concept that should be part of the voting system, so a general election is also a referendum on things like politicians pay.

Ideally, it should be mandatory to vote too, so that people can't complain about not being involved, or consulted, and maybe, just maybe, things might improve if the politicians were actually made more accountable to the people that elect them.

AH Pipe dream? Probably, but what has become clear is that the present system is badly broken, not just in Ireland, and many democratic countries are suffering from the same problems of a massive and unacceptable disconnect between the political classes and the people. For the sake of democracy, that has to be changed.

Maybe the mess of IW will gave been worth it if the result is that politics is changed to make it more accountable and acceptable to the people.

Cantona's Collars

Water charges just got a mention in the budget.TLDR version,pay now up to €500 limit & claim back up to €100 THE FOLLOWING YEAR!!

That got a pretty derisory reaction from the opposition.

benny79

That's the worrying thing there is no one else!! and I think we are up **** creek, I voted Labour and FG in last election and was my first time to vote as I never really cared! too young maybe. Labour be not existent like the PD's after the next election FG will struggle so whos left FF there just as bad and put us in this mess SF seriously, ITs a joke and a worrying one at that. and the worse think about it is any of them fcuk up they retire and claim their €200+ pension for the rest of their life! its worse than the Mafia FFS...

In Lonesome Dove

benny79 wrote: »

That's the worrying thing there is no one else!! and I think we are up **** creek, I voted Labour and FG in last election and was my first time to vote as I never really cared! too young maybe. Labour be not existent like the PD's after the next election FG will struggle so whos left FF there just as bad and put us in this mess SF seriously, ITs a joke and a worrying one at that. and the worse think about it is any of them fcuk up they retire and claim their €200+ pension for the rest of their life! its worse than the Mafia FFS...

Isn't there a country in the EU without a government. Or there was a few years ago. Was it Switzerland or Belgium. The majority of our economic and environment stuff and enquility issues is being given out to us from the EU. We might as well skip the middle men in between as in our own government and we might be better off. Of course there the EU will probably change other things like our corporation tax, sw benefit, pays, things like that. I think Europe is changing towards a united states as well.

Duck Soup

The water charge is the inevitable outcome of the Irish - or more correctly, Irish governments' - attitude to taxation.

PAYE workers in Ireland pay through the nose. The self-employed (most notably, farmers) pay a comparative pittance per euro earned by comparison. Top earners, paid in lumps of stock options pay only Capital Gain Tax rates. Self-employed professionals and corporations get off blissfully lightly. The heavy load is borne by PAYE workers. We're kind of Greece with bad weather.

In a grown-up country, tax inspectors would go in search of the missing billions. But here, that would be seen as almost impolite, so we faff around. We tax the things that people can't hide or deny. Like a home. Or a water supply. The problem is that these things are by nature poll taxes - a head tax - that can only be tweaked very crudely in a progressive direction.

Or to put it another way, it's too difficult to chase tax dodgers. Hit the easy targets. Hence the series of head taxes - Universal Social Charge, Local Property Tax. Hence the water charge.

seamus

Duck Soup wrote: »

PAYE workers in Ireland pay through the nose. The self-employed (most notably, farmers) pay a comparative pittance per euro earned by comparison.
...
Self-employed professionals and corporations get off blissfully lightly. The heavy load is borne by PAYE workers. We're kind of Greece with bad weather.

You're taking the piss, right?
Farmers and multi-millionaires aside, self-employed earners pay a massive tax burden in Ireland, their tax credits are lower, their USC and PRSI is higher and their ability to access financial support services is massively restricted, when compared to a PAYE worker.

PAYE workers probably cover the tax burden because there's more of them. But self-employed people per head pay a lot more income tax.

Not only that, self-employed people are expected to pre-pay their income tax on money not yet earned.

tayto lover

Duck Soup wrote: »

The water charge is the inevitable outcome of the Irish - or more correctly, Irish governments' - attitude to taxation.

PAYE workers in Ireland pay through the nose. The self-employed (most notably, farmers) pay a comparative pittance per euro earned by comparison. Top earners, paid in lumps of stock options pay only Capital Gain Tax rates. Self-employed professionals and corporations get off blissfully lightly. The heavy load is borne by PAYE workers. We're kind of Greece with bad weather.

In a grown-up country, tax inspectors would go in search of the missing billions. But here, that would be seen as almost impolite, so we faff around. We tax the things that people can't hide or deny. Like a home. Or a water supply. The problem is that these things are by nature poll taxes - a head tax - that can only be tweaked very crudely in a progressive direction.

Or to put it another way, it's too difficult to chase tax dodgers. Hit the easy targets. Hence the series of head taxes - Universal Social Charge, Local Property Tax. Hence the water charge.

Couldn't agree more.
The farmers and big earners get it very easy. Just hire a good accountant or tax consultant to get them all they can and claim all the grants available. No wonder both figure very highly as FG voters.

tobsey

seamus wrote: »

You're taking the piss, right?
Farmers and multi-millionaires aside, self-employed earners pay a massive tax burden in Ireland, their tax credits are lower, their USC and PRSI is higher and their ability to access financial support services is massively restricted, when compared to a PAYE worker.

PAYE workers probably cover the tax burden because there's more of them. But self-employed people per head pay a lot more income tax.

Not only that, self-employed people are expected to pre-pay their income tax on money not yet earned.

Employers pay something like 10% of a PAYE employee's salary in PRSI so that has to be made up for if the person is self employed. There's also the fact that most self employed people massively under-declare their income. Not all, but definitely most.

Duck Soup

seamus wrote: »

You're taking the piss, right?
Farmers and multi-millionaires aside, self-employed earners pay a massive tax burden in Ireland, their tax credits are lower, their USC and PRSI is higher and their ability to access financial support services is massively restricted, when compared to a PAYE worker.

PAYE workers probably cover the tax burden because there's more of them. But self-employed people per head pay a lot more income tax.

Not only that, self-employed people are expected to pre-pay their income tax on money not yet earned.

I was self-employed for 12 years and working for a variety of companies for 15 years before that. Now back working for someone else (basically because it's too insecure working for yourself and the banks don't want to know you).

But the amounts of tax I paid on the same amount earned - say £40,000 a year - as a self-employed person and an employee don't even live in the same county as each other.

Unless your accountant is completely useless, you pay a fraction of the tax you do PAYE.

Duck Soup

tobsey wrote: »

Employers pay something like 10% of a PAYE employee's salary in PRSI so that has to be made up for if the person is self employed. There's also the fact that most self employed people massively under-declare their income. Not all, but definitely most.

Yep, me and the vast majority of self-employed people I know do a fair slice of cash-only work that the taxman never sees. I've also been paid at various times with a TV, dishwasher, music centre, laptop and iPhone or two.

adrian92

I cannot read the water meter because the digits are covered by some IW transmitter. Has anyone else come across this?

DamagedTrax

Duck Soup wrote: »

Yep, me and the vast majority of self-employed people I know do a fair slice of cash-only work that the taxman never sees. I've also been paid at various times with a TV, dishwasher, music centre, laptop and iPhone or two.

same in my experience too. sometimes a barter is better than having to declare.. sometimes cash isnt declared.

for someone to say that a self employed worker and paye worker are on the same tax level shows either a lack of understanding of how taxation works or, as mentioned already, has the worlds worst accountant.

Hijpo

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

The rest of their wage goes into a pot from which they draw it for expenses, such as Mary-Lous first class round trip to Australia.

Outrage when a party does it internally. Everything is fine when a government does it with all our tax.

TallGlass

adrian92 wrote: »

I cannot read the water meter because the digits are covered by some IW transmitter. Has anyone else come across this?

Just looking there our meter is covered with it alright hard to read the red digits.

We used 53000 liters since April minus the 30000 allowance comes to a bill of 115€ before vat and tax are add onto it. (1000L @ 5€)

TallGlass

DamagedTrax wrote: »

same in my experience too. sometimes a barter is better than having to declare.. sometimes cash isnt declared.

for someone to say that a self employed worker and paye worker are on the same tax level shows either a lack of understanding of how taxation works or, as mentioned already, has the worlds worst accountant.

If I could choose PAYE or Self Declare I would go for the second option. Claim back on everything going from fuel, bills to shopping.

PAYE is a seriously bad deal.

Highflyer13

Highflyer13 wrote: »

I fully expect these clowns to throw some sweeteners at us tomorrow. Sorry lads but its too little to late.I for one won't be buying it. The beast has awoken and the resilient Irish are rising up.

On a side note it shows how out of touch Labour are when they send one of their consistently weakest performers Lorraine Higgins onto Vin B. Obviously she is still rated within the party somehow.

Pathetic attempt at sweetening us up, absolutely pathetic. I predict they will revoke the USC next year before GE 2016. I'm probably hoping for too much there :pac:

rob316

Next protest there will be 200,000 out that is all they have achieved today. People can smell blood and will go for it now.

DeVore

Duck Soup wrote: »

Yep, me and the vast majority of self-employed people I know do a fair slice of cash-only work that the taxman never sees. I've also been paid at various times with a TV, dishwasher, music centre, laptop and iPhone or two.

Then its not because you were self-employed, its because you are a tax-evader.

I am self employed, one of the professionals you are talking about and I pay more tax and get less for it than a similar PAYE worker. You are high if you think otherwise and no, being able to do illegal things isn't a perk we should be considering. All of my income is traceable and declared. Any capital gains is taxed at 35% from 0 ... no bands, no allowances.

People are in fncking lala-land if they think being self employed is a doddle... if it is, why are you all doing it? Why did the poster go back to PAYE. Ignorant nonsense, blathered ad nauseum without a shred of support for it.

Streetwalker

Highflyer13 wrote: »

Pathetic attempt at sweetening us up, absolutely pathetic. I predict they will revoke the USC next year before GE 2016. I'm probably hoping for too much there :pac:

Sad thing is a lot of gullible goons will fall for it.

Banjo String

Streetwalker wrote: »

Sad thing is a lot of gullible goons will fall for it.

I don't think so, this is a blatant attempt at bribing the public to sign up, for a few goodies.

Obviously the sweetners on offer (meagre as they are) can be easily scrapped come the next budget but by that time, they will have a sizable amount committed to it, and the much sought after pps numbers.

I hope the public are smart enough to recognise it for what it is and it is snubbed.

They are on the ropes now, they know it too.

DamagedTrax

DeVore wrote: »

Then its not because you were self-employed, its because you are a tax-evader.

I am self employed, one of the professionals you are talking about and I pay more tax and get less for it than a similar PAYE worker. You are high if you think otherwise and no, being able to do illegal things isn't a perk we should be considering. All of my income is traceable and declared. Any capital gains is taxed at 35% from 0 ... no bands, no allowances.

People are in fncking lala-land if they think being self employed is a doddle... if it is, why are you all doing it? Why did the poster go back to PAYE. Ignorant nonsense, blathered ad nauseum without a shred of support for it.

what happens when you run a small service business and a long term client cant pay? he offers you barter or trade for your service, do you hound him thru the courts or accept the offer in the hope of retaining their business when things pick up for them? it happens everyday in businesses up and down the country.

what apple/bono/o'brien do is tantamount to tax evasion. trade between two people for services rendered isnt.

running your business is no doddle but it is more lucrative to many than paye ever was. your case is obviously different.

FREETV

geeksauce wrote: »

Can't imagine why he didn't listen to you!!!

Oh wait though didn't you say:

The Carpenter ended up eating his words, he lost his job when the Construction Industry crashed and he and his family emigrated to Australia as he couldn't find any work here.
Any fool could become a Carpenter, he was an arrogant one too and thought that he was great earning so much money and four years later he was almost broke and left the Country.

It is the likes of Fianna Fail and the Coalition Government now that will destroy this Country for good if they aren't extinguished.

hju6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHc0H5O6bo4

Bob24

adrian92 wrote: »

I cannot read the water meter because the digits are covered by some IW transmitter. Has anyone else come across this?

The transmitter should only cover the last 2 digits? (ie liters and 10s of litres)

If correct you should still be able to read your consumption with 100 litres accuracy.

The positioning of the transmitter is definitly not great if you want to quickly identify a leak, but it's not a big deal in terms estimating how much your bill will be as The unit price is per 1000 litres.