mickydoomsux wrote: » Do you call the employees of other utility companies 'goons'?
Glock Lesnar wrote: » Pictures emerging of the protesters on facebook, 50% are what I like to call the 'Sinn Fein left' these people are walking proof that you can identify someone who doesn't pay any tax just by looking at their photo, look for the 'confused resting face' it's a mixture between a squint and a gurn that's been embedded into their faces ever since they were introduced to long division back in 5th class. For some reason these people have brought their kids along, it's hard to tell who's more confused about the situation. 50% are ponytailed, poncho wearing pot smokers who in fairness are better informed than the shower above, but they'll all bottle it and pay so there's not much point to them being there and Enda Kenny couldn't care less about their opinion.
DamagedTrax wrote: » most arent willing to pay a company/body (or whatever its supposed to be) thats held by private investors. i personally wouldnt mind paying a flat yearly fee IF we saw improvements to the current system and IF it was a state service. metering water is a joke and will cause misery to quite a few families. that is fact. i know some dont agree with paying a penny and i understand their reasoning (if its intelligent). but i certainly wont pay a penny to a private clongomerate for water.
Glock Lesnar wrote: » I'll post proof of the second group first to allow people a chance to recant before I prove my post most in it's entirety. These photos are orginally from the rabble facebook page so they're already in the public domain but I've obscured their identity further to prevent issues with the mods.http://i.imgur.com/gWCzq4J.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/91yXlHB.jpg QED
eeepaulo wrote: » So the first image shows 50% of the crowd and the second image the other 50% You do realise that there were more than 2 people there?
hiFidelity wrote: » Someone mentioned earlier that unless there is plan B or some follow through by the organisers, then today's protest will be ignored by the government. I believe that this is probably very true. There was an incident a couple of years ago where a member of the public went on hunger strike at the gates of the Dail. In fact didn't he chain himself to the gates? It took 10 days before a member of the government approached him.
hiFidelity wrote: » Someone mentioned earlier that unless there is plan B or some follow through by the organisers, then today's protest will be ignored by the government. I believe that this is probably very true.
coolemon wrote: » Never mind what the organisers of the demonstration do. Plan A is to continue the decentralised campaign in the obstruction of water meter installation. Plan B is mass non-payment. That is where the power lies. Mass demonstrations are essentially powerless.
dxhound2005 wrote: » Why bother with Plan A? Even if all the meters were to be dug up you would still have to go to Plan B.
hiFidelity wrote: » It took 10 days before a member of the government approached him.
mickydoomsux wrote: » So how do you know it's 'surely the biggest in decades'?
coolemon wrote: » Not really. One of the main justifications used by the state is that the meters are being used for conservation purposes. If they just gave an estimated bill to everyone because of the success of plan A, an important justification would be undermined. Secondly, it is important to obstruct the infrastructure used for the commodification of water and ensure such a capacity to commodify does not exist.
Barely There wrote: » As someone who pays the salary of our Government through my taxes, I'm quite comfortable with them ignoring crackpots like this and concentrating on more important matters.
Bambi wrote: » yeah just look at all these hardened radicals http://m2.dmlimg.com/MDRjYjEyMTE2YjA0MWUwZTAzNzliOTExODQyNzVjMDDxY8vS6clpJDSSnWmaWiKNaHR0cDovL2MyLnRoZWpvdXJuYWwuaWUvbWVkaWEvMjAxNC8xMC9uYXRpb25hbC13YXRlci1wcm90ZXN0LWFnYWluc3Qtd2F0ZXItMTEuanBnfDYwNXx8fHx8fHx8fA==.jpg don't embarrass yourself any further yeah? Just move on to the next untenable position
dxhound2005 wrote: » Meters certainly aid conservation. Maybe the government could go to a Plan B. Like in England link the water charge to the property tax, the more property tax you pay the more you pay for water. England is mostly unmetered.
coolemon wrote: » They do aid in conservation. But I do not believe this is a genuine justification, or the real reason for the imposition of water charges at this point in time. This would be the view of the protesters. And by attempting Plan A they are undermining conservation as a justification by the state. I understand the revenue are in somewhat in control of Irish Water (or the department is). We cannot know what the state has up its sleeve. But it would be prudent for the protesters to use multiple approaches to resist the water charges at this time.
dxhound2005 wrote: » There is a flaw in your Plan B anyway. It will involve mass lawbreaking. None of the main parties including SF will support this. Neither will the trade unions who helped organise the march. They are against the charge but they will not support lawbreakers. So that just leaves the fringe. How are they going to get mass non-payment organised?
coolemon wrote: » I don't think there is a flaw at all. The types of people this charge is being imposed on wouldn't mind or have anything to lose by spending a day or two in prison. Indeed there has been 70-80 arrests already. And don't overestimate the importance of Sinn Fein. Their "core constituency" in Jobstown had a 20% turn out today. Sinn Fein will be disposed of if they do a turncoat on the people. The people are asserting actual power on the streets and they are aware of that. They don't have time nor the patience to wait for the next GE to defeat this charge when their own power is in reach.
Glock Lesnar wrote: » I never called anyone a hardened radical,but don't let reading comprehension get in the way of your agenda. Plenty of those 2-3 day old 'unemployment beards' and gormless facial expressions that make it easy to pick out the first group I highlighted.
dxhound2005 wrote: » The sad thing is that in 9 or 12 months time people who are foolish enough to believe this sort of stuff will be getting bills with two or three periods of arrears. And there won't be a sign of any of the meter obstructors anywhere around to help them out. The history of what happend with property tax should be a lesson.
coolemon wrote: » Property tax is a different kettle of fish. What happens if a social welfare recipient doesn't pay the arrears? They cant turn the water off. Or if they do, it will easily be turned back on. As I say, people can resist this. Or at least as it stands now they can.
coolemon wrote: » What happens if a social welfare recipient doesn't pay the arrears?
