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ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE

Crann na Beatha

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end of 31st dáil

denis o’brien

Comments

Bongalongherb

Reformed Character wrote: »

From the RTE website
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1011/651606-water-charges/
Organisers estimated that up to 100,000 people took part.
It is understood gardaí estimated the attendance at up to 30,000.

Looks to me like the militant subversive left are up to their usual tricks, with their claims being 300% out , in their favour.
The usual "something for nothing" brigade blocking the capitals main street and causing traffic mayhem.

Oh you poor thing being stuck in traffic. This march is much more important than being stuck for a short while in traffic.

Cantona's Collars

Reformed Character wrote: »

The usual "something for nothing" brigade blocking the capitals main street and causing traffic mayhem.

Our taxation system already goes towards paying for provision of water plus we have LPT which is meant to go towards such services.It's like VRT on cars - pay a tax on a tax.

Dyr

So has anyone who's bandying the 30k figure got a statement from the gardai to back that up? Otherwise you're talking unattributed nonsense from RTE. The only way you could have stretched 30k down that route is if you went single file. :pac:.

The fact that the gardai rerouted it such a distance and the march held together is a fairly good indication of the numbers.

This told me straight away this was going to be a big march: getting a bus into town from the northside, two buses arrived at the stop at the same time and both were pretty much filled with people going in to protest. I've never seen that before

I usually do a quick walk around parnell square to see where the crowd stretches to, today I didn't think it was that big but it was hard to estimate because a lot of the crowd had pushed onto O'Connell street. While we were all standing in the garden of remembrance word came down that the top of the march had reached the dail, i was laughing at the time because I thought it was the usual bull**** rumours but it may have been right. I stood off the march at dawson street and given that the top of the march had hit the GPO a good while back it was amazing the see that it took about ten to fifteen minutes for the tail end to pass by.

Big numbers out, maybe the biggest since the gulf war protest (2002?)

100k? Probably an overestimation
30k? Ridiculous

Arial photographs from the garda chopper would give the best indication, wonder if we'll see any? :pac:

nxbyveromdwjpg

Are the rumours about a huge water fight breaking out true?
Supersoakers and waterbombs everywhere

Steodonn

To be honest it will be impossible to get an accurate figure the route sort of went all over the place with significant crowds either skipping some or taking slightly alternate routes and a much higher than normal number of passers-by joining in. When I was at leinster house some people were only leaving the GPO and I was no where near the front and only made it back for the last speaker. I doubt the garda even did a count they didn't even manage to close the roads fast enough. 80,000ish was the last I heard off someone doing a count but could of been upto 100,000 easy the vote in DSW for Paul Murphy also reinforces the message of the protest greatly

DamagedTrax

zerks wrote: »

It's like VRT on cars

which is illegal under european laws but they still charge.

mickydoomsux

zerks wrote: »

so far I've seen zero change despite the fancy brochure that came through my letterbox.
Water charges which just seem to be there to pay the set up & wages plus bonuses of IW staff. Not a penny seems to be going to actually provide decent drinking water - ask the residents of Galway,Roscommon & South Wexford.

You do realise that no one has actually had their first bill from the company yet, right?

Cantona's Collars

mickydoomsux wrote: »

You do realise that no one has actually had their first bill from the company yet, right?

Yes,but they've already told us how much they want come June.We were lied to about it being about conservation,if we don't use enough they can up the bills.The Vintners Federation must have been consulted on this,people don't go to pubs enough so they up the price of the drink,IW have taken this idea on board.

Glock Lesnar

Technoprisoner wrote: »

i was at the protest...i dont take drugs...i work 6 days a week and pay my taxes...and i protested today against the water charges....i had every right to do so as well. but you just pigeon holed me as a drug taking tax dodger.... i have more than 1 friend who is currently having their homes repossessed. homes that they where very easily paying for before the debt of anglo was put on the citizens of ireland. and im not talking about big fancy mansions. im talking about low standard housing in not so great areas...and guess what...they worked hard and dont take drugs either

so to try rubbish what happened today with comments like yours is sickening.

Can't make their payments
Can't get out of low standard housing
Can't get out of not so great areas
Can't stop the water charges
Can't recognise the type of people they're surrounded by

But it's never your fault.

Technoprisoner

Glock Lesnar wrote: »

Can't make their payments
Can't get out of low standard housing
Can't get out of not so great areas
Can't stop the water charges
Can't recognise the type of people they're surrounded by

But it's never your fault.

and i suppose its my fault the water charges are coming in??...i tell you what....if you are so convinced that the majority of normal people in ireland want to pay water charges, why dont you organise a rally for the pro side and see how many turn up for that

eeepaulo

Highflyer13 wrote: »

That just shows how big it was with more people on front and more behind.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attac...hmentid=324852

Was the whole of the red line full of people at the same time?

mickydoomsux

Technoprisoner wrote: »

and i suppose its my fault the water charges are coming in??... i tell you what ....if you are so convinced that the majority of normal people in ireland want to pay water charges, why dont you organise a rally for the pro side and see how many turn up for that

That boy ain't right.

Should we organise pro side marches for every separate utility bill as well?

steamengine

It was a massive protest today - 100,000 would have been my estimate. Good to see the squeezed middle class have joined the revolution, judging by the accents of some. The ordinary working people didn't cause this financial crisis, so why should they have to pay for it, through a plethora of disingenuous money sucking schemes, this being the latest one.

Phoebas

DamagedTrax wrote: »

funnily enough 'crowd counting' is a real science (as bizarre as it sounds) and cops the world over are specifically told to underestimate at protests to stop late swells that could over power them. its a tactic thats been used by the met in london to great (depending on your POV) affect.

so yes, its done all the time by cops at protests.

The 30000 Garda figure was reported by RTE after the protest was over, so there was no possibility of a late swell.

But I agree that there is a scientific methodology behind counting these numbers and that's why I would tend to accept the official Garda numbers over the organiser's estimates.
That said, its not clear if the 30000 figure is just from a Garda 'source' or if its the official number.

Dyr

Phoebas wrote: »

The 30000 Garda figure was reported by RTE after the protest was over, so there was no possibility of a late swell.

But I agree that there is a scientific methodology behind counting these numbers and that's why I would tend to accept the official Garda numbers over the organiser's estimates.
That said, its not clear if the 30000 figure is just from a Garda 'source' or if its the official number.

It is clear that it's not the official number because there is none. You'd want to get into reverse gear a bit faster horse

Highflyer13

eeepaulo wrote: »

Was the whole of the red line full of people at the same time?

Yes it was. If you seen Banjos vine video you can see both lines coming face to face at Trinity college

Edit: See video below. Thanks listermint

listermint

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

I'll watch the news at 9 with interest. It should get plenty of air time, we'll see.

It seems there are posters here going to great lengths to discredit or disbelieve the figures that are being put out for today.

Well let me tell you this a poster has already given a vine here of what went on today.

https://vine.co/v/OAprz9pwdza

Now let me detail the route for you. That crowd the tail end would have to travel up nassau street, up kildare street, up molesworth street back against the traffic around St Stephens Green back down wexford street back down georges street and back up college green to the start again at end of college green.

And as can be seen from the vine above they are still going.

It took between 1.40 to over 2 hours to pass gates of trinity college. And i was at the speeches at the end on o connell street which lasted an hour and the tail end of it was still not at the speech section.

I can tell you based on route, visual reference and volume it was between 80-100K people there today. So i have no idea why you would be waiting on the national broadcaster that has a proven track record of towing the government line in all walks of life from the church to abuse to government policy. It is not a shining example of telling the truth and its quite clear they have a directive to suppress information so that the rest of the general public think that nothing is going on.

I see you are a mod of the garda forum and that may hold some bias. My sister in law is also a gard and she has some choice words about 'water protesters' so i can see where you bias may come from. But its saddening that you cannot take normal people for their word and are waiting for a poorly managed media machine to inform you.

I travelled in to this today because i believe that Irish Water was formulated not to save our network, not to promote sensible conservation of a national resource. It was designed with one sole purpose, to get the water network off the government books and sell the entire thing into private hands in a number of years. That i see as not good enough. This is my network it is your network it is all of our network. I have no problem paying for water but i disagree with paying for it twice. If they do reduce other areas of my taxation and put this into a fixed charge then fine. But what i dont agree with is the CEO selection, the contractor selection, the very early bonus culture, The expenditure of our national pension reserve funds on Meters when that should have been spent on infrastructure. And finally keeping these jobs internal to this economy rather than outsourcing to labourers from outside of our economic jurisdiction. I see that as the national pension reserve funds being exported.

Finally, It is disappointing yet expected that there are some on here who would trot out the usual 'crusties' 'shinners' 'eirigi' and all the other crap they call people who protest. You lot hang around the Journal comments section ,standing in the sidelines and hurling from the ditch giving out about everyone and making up facts that are quite clearly and evidently not true.

This is my first protest i have been to, why did i go ?because ive had enough of this austerity, is not fair anymore. Of course i can pay Irish Water, I am not any of the stupid slang names trotted out above. I am fully employed, I have a Degree. I was at the protest today with Software Engineers and Laboratory Technicians all educated to Degree and Masters level. Are we some form of dole scroungers?

Answer is NO.

I am glad to see the crowd was made up of Normal people. Neighbours Friends and familys. From the accents they travelled from far and wide. It was great to see. And i am happy that i went along to my first protest. For all the reasons above.

The people have had enough.

Bring on the 1st November, and i hope Joan was watching today. Labour and Fine Gael will not be getting my vote a second time.

Lord Trollington

Phoebas wrote: »

The 30000 Garda figure was reported by RTE after the protest was over, so there was no possibility of a late swell.

But I agree that there is a scientific methodology behind counting these numbers and that's why I would tend to accept the official Garda numbers over the organiser's estimates.
That said, its not clear if the 30000 figure is just from a Garda 'source' or if its the official number.

Personally I wouldn't believe a word out of the Guards, particularly the higher ranked ones.

Absolutely rotten . Just ask Garda McCabe.

Glock Lesnar

Technoprisoner wrote: »

and i suppose its my fault the water charges are coming in??...i tell you what....if you are so convinced that the majority of normal people in ireland want to pay water charges, why dont you organise a rally for the pro side and see how many turn up for that

The majority of people are happy to pay and you'll see that when the bills come in.

The primary issue I have with the anti water brigade is the same issue George Orwell highlighted with the left in general.

''The immediately striking thing about all these papers is their generally negative, querulous attitude, their complete lack at all times of any constructive suggestion. There is little in them except the irresponsible carping of people who have never been and never expect to be in a position of power."

Highflyer13

Ive drawn the route that was full of people marching at the same time and the came face to face at Tinity. See the video Listermint posted.

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/654298/324852.PNG

Lord Trollington

listermint wrote: »

Bring on the 1st November, and i hope Joan was watching today. Labour and Fine Gael will not be getting my vote a second time.

Joan Burton is an absolutely rotten c*nt. She will end up burying Labour before the election.

Lord Trollington

Glock Lesnar wrote: »

The majority of people are happy to pay and you'll see that when the bills come in.

The primary issue I have with the anti water brigade is the same issue George Orwell highlighted with the left in general.

''The immediately striking thing about all these papers is their generally negative, querulous attitude, their complete lack at all times of any constructive suggestion. There is little in them except the irresponsible carping of people who have never been and never expect to be in a position of power."

Given the money it has cost to set up IW and to pay the salaries and bonuses of its employees 100-150k people not paying the water bill wouldn't be long about sending the company under.

eeepaulo

Highflyer13 wrote: »

Ive drawn the route that was full of people marching at the same time and the came face to face at Tinity. See the video Listermint posted.

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/654298/324852.PNG

I just did a quick google maps route, that is about 4.2km!!!

dxhound2005

zerks wrote: »

Revenue got involved with the LPT and dipped into people's wages,this is different.People have had enough. The USC was meant to be temporary & we see no sign of it going.LPT was meant to go on services,so far I've seen zero change despite the fancy brochure that came through my letterbox.
Water charges which just seem to be there to pay the set up & wages plus bonuses of IW staff. Not a penny seems to be going to actually provide decent drinking water - ask the residents of Galway,Roscommon & South Wexford.

The population is broke yet the govt. blindly see them as a cash cow to be milked again & again.This time thousands upon thousands stood up & said no.

How is the population broke if they can afford to spend 12 times as much on alcohol as they will be paying for water next year?

listermint

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How is the population broke if they can afford to spend 12 times as much on alcohol as they will be paying for water next year?

Does that not allow for growth? Taking money out of pockets via regressive taxation policies such as the one that sparked this thread hurts the wider economy. But im guessing you already knew that.

Technoprisoner

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How is the population broke if they can afford to spend 12 times as much on alcohol as they will be paying for water next year?

again you are making assumptions that everyone is a drinker...of course we are irish...we are all alcoholics!!! im a tea totaler myself...but you continue on generalizing and stereotyping the irish people

steamengine

Glock Lesnar wrote: »

The majority of people are happy to pay and you'll see that when the bills come in.

The primary issue I have with the anti water brigade is the same issue George Orwell highlighted with the left in general.

''The immediately striking thing about all these papers is their generally negative, querulous attitude, their complete lack at all times of any constructive suggestion. There is little in them except the irresponsible carping of people who have never been and never expect to be in a position of power."

There is another interesting quote by Charles Trevelyan - 'If you put an Irishman on a spit - you will find another willing to turn it'.

Cantona's Collars

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How is the population broke if they can afford to spend 12 times as much on alcohol as they will be paying for water next year?

And now one of the champions of the govt begrudges a man a pint.:rolleyes:

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How is the population broke if they can afford to spend 12 times as much on alcohol as they will be paying for water next year?

Silly post DX.

Phoebas

Technoprisoner wrote: »

again you are making assumptions that everyone is a drinker...of course we are irish...we are all alcoholics!!! im a tea totaler myself...but you continue on generalizing and stereotyping the irish people

I think it was a cumulative figure for ...... oh, never mind.