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Child Item

Lets make people on welfare live on vouchers!

[Deleted User]

Reading through some various posts on the forum and a strong group of people want to have a system where people on the dole survive on vouchers only!

In my opinion a voucher system simply wouldn't work.

social welfare is paid for all different groups of people, including;

the dole,
pensions,
sickness & disability,
Part Time workers,
Low paid workers,
Carers,
Jobsbridge,
FAS,
TUS,
Gateway,
Students.
Child Benefit.

Do you want vouchers to all these people or are you picking on those on the dole?

Lets imagine that some people advocating a voucher system are actually implying that those people on the dole should be in receipt of such a scheme.

The amount of dole 1 person receives is €188 per week.

A average household would normally have the following to pay for,

food,
electricity,
Gas/oil,
Water,
Insurance,
Car Insurance,
Rent/mortgage,
Medical costs,
Clothing,
Car Maintenance,
House Maintenance,
Telephone,
Internet,
Petrol,
TV Licence.

What do those advocating a voucher system expect to provide with the voucher for the above costs? Would the voucher allowance have to be increased to cover the daily cost of living?

Note I haven't even included any funds for socialising, or celebrations such as birthday/Christmas. This is just basic survival.

So please go breakdown the figures and get back to us!

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Beano

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That doesn't mean I've forgotten them.

It would require an initial investment but as people are encouraged to leave the dole we'd be better off in the long term.

encouraged to leave the dole to do what exactly? are they all suddenly going to find jobs?

Grand Moff Tarkin

Deleted User wrote: »

Strange that not one person advocating a voucher system has yet given any figure to the breakdown of the cost of survival be it on the dole or the voucher scheme.

Having been on both sides of the fence I have to say as ideas go this is a none runner unless you are going out of your way to cause hassle and resentment amongst people.

Beano

Philo Beddoe wrote: »

One of the things we're guilty of at an institutional level in this country is short-term thinking. I think a better system than what you've suggested could be put in place with a bit of investment which will cost money in the short-term but bring benefits down the road.

Let's install facial recognition technology in every retail outlet which sells tobacco or alcohol. Everybody who receives social welfare will have their photo taken when being put through central processing. Then if they attempt to buy either alcohol or tobacco they will be recognised. Red lights will start flashing, a loud siren will sound and a big metal cage will drop to the floor, trapping the scrounger inside.

They can then spend a few hours in the cage being publically shamed and thinking about what they've done. The length of time in the cage could increase with each offense. Obviously you'll have to feed them while they're in there. Perhaps some symbolical carrots, to go with the metaphorical stick which is the cage? Now I know what you're thinking, eventually all these carrots are going to cost us a lot of money...maybe have a three-strikes and you're out system. Poisoned carrots for serial offenders?

an excellent idea. think of the massive boost to the metal cage industry.

[Deleted User]

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That doesn't mean I've forgotten them.

It would require an initial investment but as people are encouraged to leave the dole we'd be better off in the long term.

food,
electricity,
Gas/oil,
Water,
Insurance,
Car Insurance,
Rent/mortgage,
Medical costs,
Clothing,
Car Maintenance,
House Maintenance,
Telephone,
Internet,
Petrol,
TV Licence.

All with a voucher system?

Iwasfrozen

Beano wrote: »

encouraged to leave the dole to do what exactly? are they all suddenly going to find jobs?

There is a substantial population on the dole (mostly graduates) who will not take any available job as it is "beneath" them. This scheme is aimed at them.

As more people get into employment it will increase aggregate demand which will increase the number of available jobs. You just need a kick to get the system working.

[Deleted User]

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

Having been on both sides of the fence I have to say as ideas go this is a none runner unless you are going out of your way to cause hassle and resentment amongst people.

Im totally against the system, and I know it would work, im simply asking for those advocating such a system to actually do the maths.

Beano

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

There is a substantial population on the dole (mostly graduates) who will not take any available job as it is "beneath" them. This scheme is aimed at them.

As more people get into employment it will increase aggregate demand which will increase the number of available jobs. You just need a kick to get the system working.

how substantial is this population exactly?

Grand Moff Tarkin

Not many people posting here seem to have any idea of how things are done in the real world.

Yer Aul One

HellboundIRL wrote: »

What is it with some people and their obsession with welfare/dole? Same thread once or twice a week (sometimes more), same posters yapping on about their taxes and scroungers and some chest beating thrown in for good measure on how they're a proper law abiding citizen.

Does it not get a bit old? The threads are always popular but it's always the same old drivel.

Why are you reading them if you find them so boring?

WinnyThePoo

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

Not many people posting here seem to have any idea of how things are done in the real world.

Mostly I.T graduates i'd say.

Grand Moff Tarkin

Deleted User wrote: »

Im totally against the system, and I know it would work, im simply asking for those advocating such a system to actually do the maths.

Have you spent time on the dole yourself with a wife and a few children to support?
Not everyone on the dole wants to be there but for the time I had to use it at least I was seeing hard money which could be spent on what my family needed at the time. Not everything can be covered with vouchers and vouchers are a sure way to destroy any hope left in some man or woman out on the dole looking for a job.

ted1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

the dole
food,
electricity,
Gas/oil,
Water, Allowance for upto 400,000
Insurance, For what ?
Car Insurance, Public transport ?
Rent/mortgage, rent allowance?
Medical costs, Medical card?
Clothing,
Car Maintenance, Public transport?
House Maintenance, Landlord/ council?
Telephone,
Internet,
Petrol, Public transport?
TV Licence.

See above

Wompa1

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

Not many people posting here seem to have any idea of how things are done in the real world.

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Mostly I.T graduates i'd say.

In fairness...Ireland is unlike almost the entire rest of the world so.....

Knine

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

My opinion is that if you are receiving any payment (excluding pension) from the state i.e taxpayers then I don't think you should be allowed spend that money on smokes and alcohol.

Vouchers are the best way of doing that and could sort a lot of social issues too at the same time.

Really? So full time Carers who save the state a fortune & care 24/7 should receive Vouchers? Really?

Anybody could end up as a Carer or being cared for themselves.

[Deleted User]

Wrong thread!

Roquentin

you could maybe give a 50 euro voucher and then 130 into your hand. id do that being on the dole. ive found being on the dole i dont need as much food as if i were working (although in the christmas time you need more meals)

not everyone who is on the dole wants to be on the dole, its just circumstances dictate it.

kneemos

Are vouchers people who say "aw yeah he's a good fellow"?

[Deleted User]

Roquentin wrote: »

you could maybe give a 50 euro voucher and then 130 into your hand. id do that being on the dole. ive found being on the dole i dont need as much food as if i were working (although in the christmas time you need more meals)

not everyone who is on the dole wants to be on the dole, its just circumstances dictate it.

Whats the 50 euro for?

Yer Aul One

Deleted User wrote: »

Whats the 50 euro for?

Brazzer vouchers

Roquentin

Deleted User wrote: »

Whats the 50 euro for?

there is no such thing as a free lunch

Iwasfrozen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

food,
electricity,
Gas/oil,
Water,
Insurance,
Car Insurance,
Rent/mortgage,
Medical costs,
Clothing,
Car Maintenance,
House Maintenance,
Telephone,
Internet,
Petrol,
TV Licence.

All with a voucher system?

Yes. Vouchers would be legal tender in Ireland. With the caveat that they cannot be spent on alcohol, cigarettes, gambling or abroad.

Yer Aul One

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes. Vouchers would be legal tender in Ireland. With the caveat that they cannot be spent on alcohol, cigarettes, gambling or abroad.

A "One for All" voucher, for want of a better term

Donkey Oaty

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

With the caveat that they cannot be spent on alcohol, cigarettes, gambling or abroad.

These "Puritan vouchers" really should also exclude sex toys, cream buns, comfortable shoes and any type of coffee with an Italian-sounding name.

Iwasfrozen

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

These "Puritan vouchers" really should also exclude sex toys, cream buns, comfortable shoes and any type of coffee with an Italian-sounding name.

Why? Alcohol, cigerettes and gambling cause social problems in the addicted. Pushing them further into poverty, depression and setting a bad example to their children.

Sex toys and shoes are harmless...

In Lonesome Dove

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

There is a substantial population on the dole (mostly graduates) who will not take any available job as it is "beneath" them. This scheme is aimed at them.

As more people get into employment it will increase aggregate demand which will increase the number of available jobs. You just need a kick to get the system working.

Many graduates who find themselves unemployed, are either being forced into internships or taking them up themselves. You want these people to work a 40 hour week for vouchers and food stamps.

[Deleted User]

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes. Vouchers would be legal tender in Ireland. With the caveat that they cannot be spent on alcohol, cigarettes, gambling or abroad.

Can they buy mouth wash? I hear mouth wash contains alcohol.

caolfx

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Why? Alcohol, cigerettes and gambling cause social problems in the addicted. Pushing them further into poverty, depression and setting a bad example to their children.

Sex toys and shoes are harmless...

So punish everyone for that reason?

What if they're sex addicts though? Put their picture up in sex shops to prevent the shops from selling to them?

Yer Aul One

Bring back the tax on children's shoes!!

Wompa1

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes. Vouchers would be legal tender in Ireland. With the caveat that they cannot be spent on alcohol, cigarettes, gambling or abroad.

Doing that in the US already. People started trading their vouchers for cash...

They've not changed to a credit card..handy because they can just top up the same card

Slot Machine

Yer Aul One wrote: »

A "One for All" voucher, for want of a better term

They said "alcohol, cigarettes, gambling or abroad" not "nothing whatsoever". :pac: