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Child Item

Head Collars

OldmanMondeo

Any advise on these? I currently use a harness to walk a Boxer. He is around 4 stone and mainly muscle. He pulls a lot on the lead. I have tried various things to stop this, but he keeps pulling. Probably down to him not been trained before we got him, he was 8 months old and little wild. I have been advised to use a head collar, but I don't want to use anything that will hurt him, never used a choker chain.

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jopax

I have a German Shepard and I use a head collar for her.
Its very soft and doesn't hurt at all it just gives you more control when walking.
I wouldn't be able to walk her without one.
I think its worth a try.

VonVix

Tbh while headcollars can work really well on non-reactive pullers (and I mean non-reactive in the sense that they don't get the urge to lunge at certain dogs or people as that can cause neck injuries) I wouldn't really advise it on a boxer considering the shape of their muzzle.

You also can't just chuck a head collar on and be done with it, you have to desensitize a dog to wearing it.

I'd personally sooner go for the no pull harness that tightens under the arms as that doesn't require training, but instead gives the dog a 'correction' for pulling, but even that isn't really ideal.

DBB

OP, one of the front-connection body harnesses would be perfect for you... they stop, or at least ease pulling in almost every dog, and you don't have to habituate them as you do with a headcollar (sorry to be a pedant, but it's habituation, not desensitisation, when you're teaching a dog to accept something new

).
In addition, whilst harnesses that tighten under the armpits may stop some dogs, I've seen those harnesses causing some nasty skin wounds with really determined pullers, I would not recommend them at all... in any case, they're not as effective in bigger dogs as the leverage is not as good with a large dog.
My favourite brand of front-connection harness is the Premier Easy-Walk Harness, but the Soft-Touch Sensation or Sensible Harness is also a great bit of kit. Some here also like the Freedom harness, I've never tried it.

Easy Walk Harness: http://www.petco.com/product/102822/PetSafe-Easy-Walk-Black-Dog-Harness.aspx

Sensation/Sensible Harness: http://www.softouchconcepts.com/index.php/product-53/harness-overview

Freedom Harness: http://www.freedomnopullharness.com/

The latter two are available in Ireland from suppliers here, the Easy-Walk is readily available from UK websites

tk123

DBB wrote: »

OP, one of the front-connection body harnesses would be perfect for you... they stop, or at least ease pulling in almost every dog, and you don't have to habituate them as you do with a headcollar (sorry to be a pedant, but it's habituation, not desensitisation, when you're teaching a dog to accept something new ).
In addition, whilst harnesses that tighten under the armpits may stop some dogs, I've seen those harnesses causing some nasty skin wounds with really determined pullers, I would not recommend them at all... in any case, they're not as effective in bigger dogs as the leverage is not as good with a large dog.
My favourite brand of front-connection harness is the Premier Easy-Walk Harness, but the Soft-Touch Sensation or Sensible Harness is also a great bit of kit. Some here also like the Freedom harness, I've never tried it.

Easy Walk Harness: http://www.petco.com/product/102822/PetSafe-Easy-Walk-Black-Dog-Harness.aspx

Sensation/Sensible Harness: http://www.softouchconcepts.com/index.php/product-53/harness-overview

Freedom Harness: http://www.freedomnopullharness.com/

The latter two are available in Ireland from suppliers here, the Easy-Walk is readily available from UK websites

Freedom harness gets my vote - it's a better fit than the others imo especially if your dog likes to swim because they don't hang down when wet like the others. It also has 2 connection points so you can attach at the front, back or to both for more control.

DBB

tk123 wrote: »

Freedom harness gets my vote - it's a better fit than the others imo especially if your dog likes to swim because they don't hang down when wet like the others. It also has 2 connection points so you can attach at the front, back or to both for more control.

Do you have a Perfect Fit Harness, or did I dream that? If so, do you have the front-connection one (it's dual connection too), and how does it compare to the Freedom Harness?
I have both my GSDs in front-connection Perfect Fit harnesses and they walk really nicely in them, but they're not big pullers anyway and I'm not convinced that this particular design would have the same effect on a really determined puller.

tk123

DBB wrote: »

Do you have a Perfect Fit Harness, or did I dream that? If so, do you have the front-connection one (it's dual connection too), and how does it compare to the Freedom Harness?
I have both my GSDs in front-connection Perfect Fit harnesses and they walk really nicely in them, but they're not big pullers anyway and I'm not convinced that this particular design would have the same effect on a really determined puller.

Yep I do lol! I've been using the freedom ones during the summer months because the PF is a pain to dry when it gets wet but will go back to them when we're back walking in the evenings instead off dossing in the park.:p I have the 40mm and i think the ring is too big and heavy. I padded the front part of Bailey's with fleece to silence the ring (from banging against the buckle) then ended up getting a smaller front because it wasn't giving me any control at all the odd time he'd pull - the smaller front seemed to do the trick. I never padded the new front piece though and it had me driven mad a few weeks ago when I used it a few times after his op so will definetly pad both of them so I don't have to listen to it!

borderlinemeath

tk123 wrote: »

Yep I do lol! I've been using the freedom ones during the summer months because the PF is a pain to dry when it gets wet but will go back to them when we're back walking in the evenings instead off dossing in the park.:p I have the 40mm and i think the ring is too big and heavy. I padded the front part of Bailey's with fleece to silence the ring (from banging against the buckle) then ended up getting a smaller front because it wasn't giving me any control at all the odd time he'd pull - the smaller front seemed to do the trick. I never padded the new front piece though and it had me driven mad a few weeks ago when I used it a few times after his op so will definetly pad both of them so I don't have to listen to it!

I have to say, after seeing your freedom harnesses I was really taken with them, they do fit well, the velvet is lovely and soft, far softer than the usual harness hard fabric. I'm heading to the states next weekend and we'll have a rental car for part of the trip and will be within a few miles of the inventor/patent owners store, so I might pop in and get a few in various sizes as I like to have options for the dogs as most of them come either with unsuitable (regular) harnesses or just lead/collar combos. All my sense-ible harnesses metal buckles have corroded with the sea water, but my easy walk ones are still going strong.

tk123

The one thing you have to remember is that of you're only connecting it one point and having a long lead..make sure you connect the spare clip to the ring of the handle..otherwise if the dog takes up the slack quickly the clip will whack your hand!

Apart from that they're great. I love that they don't fall down over their legs like the sensible or easy walk. I had an easy walk for Lucy for her first harness but sent it back and a freedom one instead!

borderlinemeath

tk123 wrote: »

The one thing you have to remember is that of you're only connecting it one point and having a long lead..make sure you connect the spare clip to the ring of the handle..otherwise if the dog takes up the slack quickly the clip will whack your hand! Apart from that they're great. I love that they don't fall down over their legs like the sensible or easy walk. I had an easy walk for Lucy for her first harness but sent it back and a freedom one instead!

I have some long double ended leads that I got on ebay so I probably won't get the leads, although the extra loop is handy. If I'm using only one buckle I tend to attach the other end to my walking belt and if I'm using it double ended there's loops all the way up the lead like a halti lead to attach to the belt, but they're far stronger and nicer and prettier colours than the haltis

peasant

Stupid question here:

What happens with these front connecting harnesses when you
- only have it connected at the front / chest
- there is a good bit of slack in the line
- and the dog suddenly decides to run ahead at full speed ?

Once it reaches the end of the line at full tilt, does the dog fall, skid, veer to the side or does it get overtaken by its own back end ?

I just can't picture it but it doesn't look particularly safe to me.

borderlinemeath

peasant wrote: »

Stupid question here:

What happens with these front connecting harnesses when you
- only have it connected at the front / chest
- there is a good bit of slack in the line
- and the dog suddenly decides to run ahead at full speed ?

Once it reaches the end of the line at full tilt, does the dog fall, skid, veer to the side or does it get overtaken by its own back end ?

I just can't picture it but it doesn't look particularly safe to me.

The dog usually ends up turning in a semi circle to face you. You'd rarely have a long enough lead that the dog could get much speed up to do any damage. The only time I could see it happening is if it was used in conjunction with an extendable lead - and they are dangerous when used with any harness, and in particular just with a collar.

DBB

It specifically says on the blurbs with front-connection harnesses that they must not be used with extending leads.
They should be used with a regular lead of no more than 2m length, in which case they simply can't build up a head of steam anyway

peasant

2m back + 2m forward = 4m ...that's plenty of steam

Looks to me like those are training harnesses that are best used in conjunction with another lead/collar/harness that allows for proper control of the dog.

Which makes them a two hand job really and not really suitable as a sole harness, especially not with an excitable dog in a hectic environment.

Reminds me of the Halti.
When that first came out years ago it was sold specifically as a training aid, to be used only (two handed) together with another lead.
That message got lost somewhere along the way and now lots of dog owners use head collars (Halti or otherwise) as sole means of controlling their dog and doing untold damage to dog necks while claiming that they're "brilliant".

The only way to stop a dog from pulling is training and more training.
By all means, use a Halti or one of the above contraptions (properly) for training purposes, but nothing replaces a good, well fitting (rear connecting) harness for proper dog control.

like so:

Pretzill

A pulling dog just needs patience. But front halti collars have a place my last male dog was born with a hip problem - he rarely pulled (in fact never) but led on the halti collar it took pressure off his back legs when he was experiencing his worst problems - diagnosed less than a year old he lived a long life and improved his mobility in middle years.

I use the regular harnasses now for my two they both were pullers as pups but for me it was constant 'wait' commands stopping - relaxing the lead technique I can walk my girl whilst holding her lead with one finger - granted if we meet a horse or an excitable dog I make her sit and hold the harness as well as the lead!
Much better than pulling at her neck.

What I hate are those extendable leads for one thing they allow a pulling dog way too much freedom - a walk is a walk not a run - and whilst one day checking the actual length of the extension my OH pulled the end with the clickable metal on it whilst I was holding the box part he let it go by mistake and nearly broke my finger as the metal thing flew towards me at unexpected speed! Rubbish things they are - my two have loads of safe areas for free running but a walk is scent heaven and the only pull now in anticipation of going - most of the time I'm standing waiting for them to thoroughly sniff at a hedge!

DBB

peasant wrote: »

2m back + 2m forward = 4m ...that's plenty of steam

Looks to me like those are training harnesses that are best used in conjunction with another lead/collar/harness that allows for proper control of the dog.

Which makes them a two hand job really and not really suitable as a sole harness, especially not with an excitable dog in a hectic environment.

I don't think you understand how they work... Just because the lead is 2m long does not mean the dog has/should have the full length of the lead, no more than we allow a horse full length of the reins when we're riding them in anything other than a let-them-stretch-their-neck-deliberately fashion when resting.
When the dog is wearing his harness, or indeed a normal collar, the correct and safe way to hold the lead is with one hand close enough to the connection point to allow complete non-tension on the lead whilst the dog walks beside you. The other end of the lead, the slack end, should be held in the other hand, for neatness, and as a second anchor point should something go wrong with the main hand contact. This means that most of the length of the lead is not available for the dog to build up a head of steam.
When wearing a harness as effective as the front-connection harnesses, pulling, yanking and tearing to the full extent of the lead are a non-issue. The dog walks beside you or very near you readily, and if he does take a pull, he has very little leeway indeed to build up any steam... In fact, he just can't.
I've been using them on really serious pullers for years, and never once had an issue as you describe. I've also used them on many, many reactive dogs, and the control they give you over the shoulders and front end of the dog far exceeds any control I've ever got with any other design of headcollar, collar, or harness, and all without hurting or harming the dog. No need for multiple leads or harnesses or trying to hang on with both hands... They just don't necessitate anything of the sort in the vast majority of cases. Contrary to what you've posted, they are ideal for excitable dogs in a hectic environment, better and safer than anything else I've ever tried on really reactive dogs. Indeed, and I've seen this myself many times, there is a lot of anecdotal reporting that the harness calms a dog down just by wearing it, possibly due to an anxiety-reducing swaddling effect.
There's nothing to stop people using them on dogs for life, not just for training. I train dogs for professional work and they wear the front-connection Perfect Fit harness for their working day, and for their career. They don't pull usually, they wear them because they're better for their musculoskeletal health and balance, and allow them to carry out a range of duties in comfort.
I also never used Halti headcollars because I never liked them, and indeed I generally avoid headcollars unless there are strongly mitigating circumstances for their use.

borderlinemeath

I walk different breeds of dogs all the time and nothing else gives anywhere near the level of control that a front connection harness does. A rear connection harness gives the dog so much front power to pull, but with the front connection, as the attachment is in front of them, if they pull, they get nowhere, fast. I've walked excitable, pulling dogs that would just pull you all the way down the beach and back if they were wearing a traditional harness or a lead/collar combo but with a front attach harness they give up pulling fairly quickly as they realise that everytime they pull, they end up turning around to face you, so within a few minutes the walk becomes quite pleasant.

I don't like using haltis either, I had one for my own dog when she was younger, she still pulled a bit but it was never perfect. I've seen some that just don't fit properly and not only would you get neck damage but if incorrectly fitted they can damage the dogs eyes too.

peasant

DBB wrote: »

When the dog is wearing his harness, or indeed a normal collar, the correct and safe way to hold the lead is with one hand close enough to the connection point to allow complete non-tension on the lead whilst the dog walks beside you. The other end of the lead, the slack end, should be held in the other hand, for neatness, and as a second anchor point should something go wrong with the main hand contact.
When wearing a harness as effective as the front-connection harnesses, pulling, yanking and tearing to the full extent of the lead are a non-issue. The dog walks beside you or very near you readily, and if he does take a pull, he has very little leeway indeed to build up any steam... In fact, he just can't.

Thanks for the explanation.

What that describes to me is a training scenario where you have your dog right next to you, within arms length.
The front connecting harness sounds ideal for this kind of thing.

But a normal dog walk doesn't happen at arms length

A standard dog walk is not a training session. During a normal walk the dog stops, sniffs, pees, trails behind etc ...sooner or later the lead is out fully ...add a little unexpected excitement and there you have your dog at full steam suddenly doing pirouettes in the air, looking very consternated and potentially making all the wrong connections between whatever it was that started it off and the flying session at the end.

Still not convinced ...

DBB

peasant wrote: »

Still not convinced ...

Ahh, I hate to think that anyone would read from what I say that all my dog walks are military, eyes-front type marches!
Sniffing, rooting, peeing, saying hello to other dogs and people are a vital part of the walk, and the front-connection harness does nothing whatsoever to stop any of this... It's just that the dog gets to do the fun stuff without pulling his way to doing it!
I've never had a dog having a mickey-fit as you describe it, on the front-connection harness, yet I deal with some of the worst dogs you can imagine.... What does that tell you?!
If you'd like to try one, send me your contact details and I'll send you one on the house!

PS for the record, to be absolutely honest it is rare, in my experience at least, that the dog spins around to face you when he puts pressure on whilst wearing a front-connection harness. They just.... Stop. But they still face forward... On reading your posts I think this might be colouring your perception, and I can see why, so I hope what I describe here sets your mind at ease to some extent!
They were designed originally by a horsey lady who was trying to apply the concept of long-lining horses, to dogs. No more than horses turn or pirouette when the long-lines are applied, neither does the dog. Sorry for the horsey refs if you're not horsey!

OldmanMondeo

Thanks for the advise. I will spend a bit of time reading up on all the information here.

peasant

DBB wrote: »

On reading your posts I think this might be colouring your perception, and I can see why, so I hope what I describe here sets your mind at ease to some extent!

Yes it does, actually

My perception is also coloured by a bad experience with a (head collar) Halti (which was bought many years ago and not properly understood) where the poor dog ran full tilt into the head collar and had a sore neck (thankfully nothing more) for several days.

DBB

peasant wrote: »

Yes it does, actually

My perception is also coloured by a bad experience with a (head collar) Halti (which was bought many years ago and not properly understood) where the poor dog ran full tilt into the head collar and had a sore neck (thankfully nothing more) for several days.

Glad it's a little clearer, I can see why it coils be interpreted that the dog would to a double-pike if he stopped suddenly, but that doesn't happen... At least not that I've seen at least.
That was a really bad experience with the headcollar, and I suppose like lots of other gear, if not used as intended it can actually do harm.
At least, with any harness, front- or back-connecting, there's not much damage that can happen. On that note, for any long-lead work, a back-connection harness should be used, so that if there is a sudden stop at speed, as there very well could be with long-lead work, the harness and body absorbs most of the impact, without unbalancing the dog

tk123

DBB wrote: »

to be absolutely honest it is rare, in my experience at least, that the dog spins around to face you when he puts pressure on whilst wearing a front-connection harness. They just.... Stop. But they still face forward...

I was going to post the same thing! My two don't pull - Bailey was trained not to years ago when he had operations on his legs and it was paramount to his recovery that he not pull and walk slowly. Lucy from day one walked beside Bailey either just behind his shoulder or to his heel. Sometimes I attach the lead to to back of the harness or if say I'm taking them to the loo before hydro I'd just attach the lead to their collars and the lead is loose. That said I have an old injury (where I stupidly didn't get a hernia repaired) so I use the front attach for for insurance to minimise their power just in case e.g. Bailey might get a fright and try to jump away/onto the road.

boomerang

I never liked headcollars either DBB, and I did try a Canny Collar and a Halti on Boo. I'm glad that their popularity has started to wane. It's a pity the front-connection harnesses aren't readily available in petshops and vet clinics to publicise them more.