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Electrical courses

Bpmull

I'm just is there any courses you can do on electrical outside of doing an apprenticeship. Basically some background I'm in third year of college as a process engineer a course which has huge great job prospects effectively 100% employment and a great starting wage and all. I enjoy the course and intend on finishing it.

However on the other hand two summers ago I wanted to get a summer job and the only thing I could find was work in a fairly large electrical contractors kind of vaguely knew the boss so got in on a short term basis until they seen what I was like. Before this I had no interest or knowledge in electrics. But anyway loved with the job loved the company as for the first while I was with an Electricien all the time but then when I started getting experience I was let do more. Anyway that lasted 4 months of fairly long hours. Hen back to college.

Round two rang them for summer work this year wasn't sure if they'd take me back rang them and was told to start on site next morning and spent the guts of 4 months this summer too with a lot of long weeks rarely 40 hour weeks. Gained a huge amount of experience spent a lot of time wiring and gained a good bit of knowledge on wiring distribution boards by watching the electricians do them.

I have to admit it was hard to leave to go back to college as I just loved the work and on paper it's a crap job long hours work can be tough but I still loved it. Plus they basically offered me an apprenticeship.

Anyway basically I'm wondering is there night course I can do or weekend or something like that. I'd like to study a bit about it. I would strongly consider doing an apprenticeship when I finish college at 21. But leaving a fairly high paid engineering job to become an Electricien and start at the bottom of the ladder with sh!t pay and all that people would think I'm mad.

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Doom

These days most electrical companies are contract management only, they hire you for a specific job/site and when its finished, so is your employment.
Its tough out there to stay permanently employed, and there are rates of pay but many will adopt the attitude of "do you want a job or not" when it comes to actually paying the rates....
Many have left the trade in recent years.

Doom

Apprenticeships equal cheap labour, once qualified job prospects drop.

salmocab

As far as I know the only option is a full time apprenticeship so its 4 years inc. 3 stints in college/FAS, as stated above the job prospects are not great at the moment but I would be hopeful that as things get better in the country so will the prospects. If you really like it go for it but if you were to finish your degree and then do the apprenticeship you will have a nice fall back and possibly have two good qualifications that might make you desirable to the right employer in the future.

Bpmull

I realise all this and I think I would end up regretting it in the future if I dropped out of college which is why I'm not. But as I still have an interest in the area is there courses you can do or are they all really for qualified electricians or just your standard 4 year apprenticeship. I'd like to get some kind of piece of paper to say I have some knowledge in electrics. Even though I know it probably won't ever be a whole lot of use to me as the most I will ever be doing is something at home or this likes. It's really a pity that there is no opportunities for people who want to become electricians.

Bpmull

salmocab wrote: »

As far as I know the only option is a full time apprenticeship so its 4 years inc. 3 stints in college/FAS, as stated above the job prospects are not great at the moment but I would be hopeful that as things get better in the country so will the prospects. If you really like it go for it but if you were to finish your degree and then do the apprenticeship you will have a nice fall back and possibly have two good qualifications that might make you desirable to the right employer in the future.

I think this is good way of looking at it. If I still feel so strongly about it in two years when I finish college I could go and do an apprenticeship I'll always have my degree to fall back on if I get sick of electrical. I'd imagine I wouldn't find the course too bad certainly not the maths or physics as I've cover it all. We have even had a few modules of electrics so would know all the power factor, impedance calculations all that kind of stuff. So I suppose the only challenges in fas would be the practical modules.

Bpmull

Anyone know any decent books maybe the names of some they use in the apprenticeship well electric section of it not the physics or maths ones ? Or just general electrical books more intermediate than beginner ones as I don't want to get ones that explain how to wire a plug or socket know all that.

nogoodnamesleft

I think you may need to be more specific on the type of electrical course you wish to pursue. Is it a craft qualification or a uni qualification you wish to do.

If its a craft what area, domestic, industrial or utility?
If its a uni qualification what area as it is extremely diverse especially now with the advent of power electronics.

For domestic house wiring the standard they use here (I'm working as an electrical engineer in the UK) is the BS7671 18th edition of the wiring regs. Ireland is similar regards cable and MCB ratings and core colors.

Bpmull

nogoodnamesleft wrote: »

I think you may need to be more specific on the type of electrical course you wish to pursue. Is it a craft qualification or a uni qualification you wish to do.

If its a craft what area, domestic, industrial or utility?
If its a uni qualification what area as it is extremely diverse especially now with the advent of power electronics.

For domestic house wiring the standard they use here (I'm working as an electrical engineer in the UK) is the BS7671 18th edition of the wiring regs. Ireland is similar regards cable and MCB ratings and core colors.

No I wouldn't have any real interest in doing a uni course. As I will be a process and chemical engineer when I finish college and never had any interest in doing electrical engineering it's more the practical side of it I'm interested in. So from your post the craft side of it. I'd be into domestic and industrial really. The contractor I worked for done all big stuff schools hospitals and that kind of thing no houses at all. Although I have a good understanding of how house electrics work.

I'd imagine there is probably more courses on offer in uk than Ireland. I've heard of City and guilds courses but I'm not sure what there about. I'm not that interested in full time courses as if I was going to to one of them I'd have to wait till after I finish my engineering degree and would be as well of to do an apprenticeship if I was going to do a full time course. It was more just a weekend or evening course that you could get some kind of certification from although obviously you won't be a qualified Electricien from it.

2011

I think that a process engineer would find that the excitement of wiring houses would wear off quite quickly. When I was doing this I spent much of the time moving furniture, rolling back carpets and crawling through attics.

For me working as an industrial electrician, was far more interesting and challenging, however after 10 years or so I was sick of it. I also felt that the trade was being dumbed down. In my opinion the average industrial electrician ends up doing all of the "donkey work" such as installing cable containment, brackets and mounting panels. "Specialist" companies are increasingly being employed to carry out the more interesting work. I have known electricians that have not terminated a cable in years. Although serving my time as an electrician is not something that I regret, it payed the bills, I enjoyed it for a few years and it enabled me to make good money abroad. However I could never go back to it.

You also have to consider that even the best and most experienced electricians can find themselves out of work for a long time.

If you decide to "fall back" on your qualifications as a process engineer following a few years work as an electrician / electrical apprentice. You may find that your CV will not impress potential employers as they may question your commitment.

Anyway that is just my opinion, best of luck with whatever you decide.

Tibulus

One thing worth remembering is that you never have worked on a building site over the winter months, people are little down and dont talk as much, more dirt and they are just generally a lot more depressing than a building site in June.

Is it an option to look for experience in the instrumentation and control field. This is something that you could tie back into the chemical engineering. I know one of my old lecturers in DIT was qualfied as a clemical engineer and just started doing electrical with an employer and eventually applied for a EE job with DIT. Not sure who the big companies are in this field, not somewhere I have experience. I know the big contractors just install the instruments, pull and terminate the cables and varify the loops. Whoever does the final commissioning is the ideal person to spend a summer with, or for a pharma plant.

Trust me if you can get as far as 3rd year of chemical engineering you will get bored with industrial electrician very quickly. After 1st year of an apprenticeship I got the opportunity to work in a specialised area and never looked back, eventually done a degree and focused on that area and continue to work as an engineer. But I understand where you are coming from that you would like to develop practical skills.

Bpmull

@2011 thanks for your post some good advice there. I recon to get the best out of process engineering I would need to take a job straight when I come out of college as that's when the employers have the most interest in you. I also recon that if I do that chances are I won't ever do an apprenticeship as when you get a taste for decent money going back to getting 6 euro odd an hour as a first year apprentice won't be too tempting really. I suppose it can always just be an area I can be interested in without becoming qualified in it. It is nice to have had a summer job you can look back on with found memories. I also like being able to now know how the basic electrics work in a house or bigger building.

I can see how being an Electricien who just wires houses could get boring fast. As my parents rewired there whole house over the summer too and I done a lot of the work pulling the cables terminating and second fixing everything and then obviously they had a qualified electrician to check everything and wire the board and that. But after just doing that one house I realised there isn't exactly a whole lot to it now I know that was just from me having the experience. But working for the contractor on the bigger 3 phase stuff with your 185 and 240 swa cables and the big huge boards, fire alarms, all the lightning protection, emergency lighting is so much more interesting not trying to knock electricians that do domestic or anything like that.

Bpmull

Thanks for the post tibulus. I am well use to the sites. I've been on my far share of pure dumps of places to so I know what you mean they can be horrible places to work at times.

I do love my college course on chemical engineering. I think I will enjoy being a process engineer as there is just so much going on in the plants all them solving day to day problems sizing and speccing new equipment.

Funny enough I think even know if I was back in 6th year id still pick process eng over elec eng. as it was never the theoretical side that appealed to me it was the conducting and actual wiring. Pulling in the cables and wiring the lighting circuits which often had pir and switches then the sockets, spurs, and isolators and just the satisfaction of it all switching on and working really.

But then on the other hand in the likes of being a chemical engineer it is constant learning and just so fast. Whereas with an Electricien you tend to get extremely good at wiring boards, lights, fire alarm to the point where you can do it nearly without thinking about it and I often wondered is that the point where it gets boring. And maybe the reason I loved the job so much was that I initially knew nothing and was learning so much all the time.

crasy dash

Not to be putting a downer on you i will give you a brief summary of my life as an electrician so far

Lost interest in school in sixth year 2004(still got 7 honours one pass circa 360 points)

Never applied to cao etc.Sent out few cv's got reply from two big companies .Decided i would take one apprenticeship did trial then got told you did good ,we will offer you one in Electrical instrumentation(big smile on my face that was four months in)
Next 6-8 months pulling cable bits of tray etc,got called to fas first time i saw a mcb temperature probe etc. Oh well maybe after first block they will throw me a bit of techie work nope back on pulling crews another year and a bit gone (really began to get pissed off began ringing head office to be told stick it out it will change)

Decided then i would jack it in(early 2008) as my head was bored stiff(3rd year apprentice never terminated a cable board etc)

Heard of a job locally in a major milk factory restarted my time as a normal spark loved the place learnt everything from basics up flew threw fas college this time credits all the way.End of my time told ah you will be kept on (goes nice one job for life here late 2012).Carried on 6 days a week flat out called into the office one day late december 2013 by maintenace engineer ah here you go this is your 30days notice thanks for the hard work but we are going trying it with 2 sparks from now .

If i was in your shoes i would be looking down the road of chemical engineering as the electrical trade can be up and down you might be ok for a few years but then get a dose of reality like me (27 years old unemployed and with two kids to provide for it aint easy unfortunately)

Dont get me wrong if you want to do it go for it its a hell of a trade and i love everything about it just letting you know what can happen.

crasy dash

Bpmull wrote: »

Anyone know any decent books maybe the names of some they use in the apprenticeship well electric section of it not the physics or maths ones ? Or just general electrical books more intermediate than beginner ones as I don't want to get ones that explain how to wire a plug or socket know all that.

If you want to have a good read id try this

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Practical-Inspection-Certification-Electrical-Installations/dp/0080969070/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1411511037&sr=8-1&keywords=christopher+kitcher

I have the previous edition and found it very useful im sure a quick google will through it up.(surely download it somehere haha)

If you want a look at any of the phases notes let me know i can dig them out for you just pm me any questions you want to know about ill try and help you out.

Bpmull

crasy dash wrote: »

If you want to have a good read id try this

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Practical-Inspection-Certification-Electrical-Installations/dp/0080969070/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1411511037&sr=8-1&keywords=christopher+kitcher

I have the previous edition and found it very useful im sure a quick google will through it up.(surely download it somehere haha)

If you want a look at any of the phases notes let me know i can dig them out for you just pm me any questions you want to know about ill try and help you out.

Great thanks a million for all your help. I'll keep an eye out for that book looks like id find it interesting anyway.

air

Some apprentice notes here that you might find useful:
http://www.ecollege.ie/site/liu/html/Electricalnotes.html