No6 wrote: » As a brief aside here in Western Australia all builds over 20k must be by a registered builder unless the owner applies for and gets an owner builder licence which allows them to 'Self Build" in a similar manner to the direct labour form of building. They do have to go through a process and prove thy are competent to do the job they want to and there are courses for to get them competent if required. A similar system in Ireland would at least allow the possibility of self building.
kkelliher wrote: » SCSI have never being any good at promoting their members interest so thats no surprise. I still have to explain to most clients what a QS does.
RITwing wrote: » Every dweling which is greater than 40m2 , being extended by any amount - must comply with SI 9source
The politicians who lord it over us DARE to name themselves “legislators”! It is clear from even this short review that they are not competent to frame legislation or write it or scrutinize it in detail and therefore are not competent to vote it into law. Thus we are become a nation led at the highest level by fools who don’t know their jobs, who intend to bully and crucify the building professionals into taking on unlimited and unsustainable liability, while their only level of “accountability” is at the ballot box. For some of them, it should be inside Mountjoy Jail. * * * * * * * * * And why are the certifying professions faced with unsustainable liability? – Because a criminal developer ruined lives with Priory Hall. – Because a Local Authority disavowed its primary role in ensuring buildings were built in substantial compliance with the building regulations. – Because a competent and registered Main Contractor was NOT used. * * * * * * * * * And what happened in response? Do we see legislation limiting the actions of ex-convicts in the building industry? No. [Why is the governance of business such that an accountant cannot practice with a criminal conviction against him but an ex convict can secure loans for millions and engage in development worth millions more? I am talking about people with registered judgements against them and known quality control issues arising in previous developments – Do we see legislation DEMANDING that the local authority shoulders the necessary burden of oversight and regulation, a role that – historically and currently – private capitalist interests have shown they are unable and unwilling to to competently or well? No. [And any doubters have only to glance at the roles of the privately owned and privately managed Lending Institutions and Estate Agents in the Banking Collapse of 2008 - with the historically incompetent Light Touch Central Bank Regulation making sure no real oversight occurred] Do we even have an enforced statutory Register of Builders, with even the most rudimentary assessment of the competence to act in that role? No. [The idea that that Builders - who make the lions share of the profits from building work - are only required to self-regulate is a questionable way to address this issue. What does that Registration prove? What assessment of their work is made? Indignant self-builders are now asking the question - "How does a Main Contractor prove his competence anyway?"] * * * * * * * * * Instead our “legislators” talked amongst themselves: “Let’s screw the professionals – it will look like we’re doing something to the electorate.” In the light of the above article, I should make clear that I did not intend to write: “To the electorate, it will look like we’re doing something.” [I intended the dangling participle or clause because the electorate is being royally screwed for the benefit of the developers and main contractors and our lazy and incompetent "legislators" who need their party donations. The new Building Regulations confer no benefit to the Consumer. They just give them a straw man target to sue - the Assigned Certifier - who is just a decoy, behind which any criminal developer or builder - who is not now obliged to BUILD in accordance with the Building Regulations - now safely stands. Of course the "legislators", when their incompetence has run its course, can just head off into the Golden Dawn of a New Position in Europe.] * * * * * * * * * No spotlight is turned on these Builders and Developers, no penalty for gross negligence is imposed on them for not ensuring that the building works are compliant or that the fire safety measures are correctly implemented or even that roofs will stay on buildings if the wind blows hard – all of which were issues that actually occurred during the Celtic Tiger years.
martinn123 wrote: » I think you forgot to quote the word, " MAY".
To all Architects, Engineers, Chartered Surveyors and fellow Architectural Technologists. Of S.I.9, Politics and the Game of Junior B Hurling. To me there are a few things that I think by and large escape the view of the population of Construction Professionals out there who are opposed to S.I. 9!!! These regulations were brought into force by a Department and a Minister who care little to nothing about how we might feel about these regulations or how they affect us/our livelihoods. These regulations were brought into effect for one reason and one reason only – i.e. to remove the responsibility of the Local Authority and foist it squarely onto the Construction professionals. They were looking at potentially being blamed for Priory Hall by the Public...so they made the Construction Industry the fall guys for their slip ups. In the court of Public Opinion it was “unscrupulous Builders” and “incompetent Architects” who were all to blame, and as such it was Builders and Architects who needed tighter regulation. And thus the Minister and Department played the age old political game of "Pass the buck" or in Junior B hurling parlance..."Playing the Man". Now...we as professionals operating in the real world see this as acting irresponsibly, unfairly, unjustly, and with no regard for anyone else but Politicians saving their own skins. But that is the game of politics. That is all you need to know about Politics and Politicians. Avoid fixing the problem. Find somebody else to blame, and make it their problem. Save your Dail seat and keep your votes. That's it. And that is the game we have been dragged into playing here. In the professional world we play Championship Hurling. Its challenging, its fast, its full of skill and daring and generally the best team wins. Why? Because the rules are there to protect everyone, and give everyone the best chance of succeeding if they have the required skills, determination and have a little luck too. Everyone plays to the same set of rules and generally everyone plays fair...and if you don’t you get a free or a penalty against you. If you cheat or blatantly disregard the rules then you get sent off. There are consequences and strict rules that try to give everyone a level playing field, so that the best team with the most skills comes out on top. The best team more than likely wins. But that isn’t the game we are playing here. Oh no. This is Politics. This game is played on a wet Sunday morning in a field in the middle of nowhere. Gentlemen welcome to Junior B hurling! And you may well laugh, but it’s not funny when your shins are skinned and your knuckles are bleeding and you have a black eye....and the referee is waving play on. Because the rules of this game are...you look after your own self first. The referee isn’t interested. He is a Home Town referee and will play to the crowd. A free is only a free if the crowd can see it and they complain. After that it’s a free-for-all. The burly opposition guy standing beside you is a wily old political fox. He knows his best chance of winning the ball is by hurting you first making sure you can’t get to it. There is no skill. No best man wins. It’s nasty, dirty, every man for himself and in politics your own team-mates are just as willing to pull across you as the opposition are. If you want fairness and protection from the referee then I’m sorry...you are playing hurling in the wrong field. If you want the Department and the Minister to change their minds and act fairly then you are missing the point. That isn’t how this game is played. If you want to play like a gentleman and rely only on your skills to win the ball then you are going home in an Ambulance. If you want the referee to take notice and call a foul then you will be waiting a long long time. We as professionals are too polite. And appealing to the referee to get the other team to play fair doesn’t work. The crowd on the sidelines are the true arbiters here. They are the only people who count. The referee plays to them. They call the fouls. They decide. Public Opinion. That makes the rules in this game. It might be a blunt instrument and by God is it fickle and contrary and is bound up more in the illusion of fair play than in actual fair play itself. Politics and playing it is illusory. What happens in the shadows, never happened. All that matters is that you hide your dirty play and if you can walk away from a challenge with the ball in your hand then you won, how you got it doesn’t really matter as long as you could disguise any foul play well enough. Architects, Engineers, Chartered Surveyors all writing letters, blogs, signing petitions, having meetings, etc. That is just a bunch of broken up team mates in a huddle moaning at why the referee won’t give them a fair game to play. It doesn’t change the game, it doesn’t affect the opposition and it leaves you wondering why you bothered to turn up in the first place. Your coach is scratching his head and crying on the side lines over the fact the referee is not playing fair. You need somebody to tell you how to at least compete in this game. And here it is. Shake yourself off. Get stuck in. And most of all understand that anything goes, it’s winning by any and all means...and the crowd call the fouls. And a note to all fellow Architectural Technologists out there. We don’t even have a team!! Some guys in the next County over might be willing to join the league, but the Home team don’t like people outside the parish playing on this field!!! So we are the younger brothers showing up with our gear bag and hurley hoping that we can maybe get picked by the bigger boys to sit on their subs bench. Do we really want to be showcasing our undoubtedly silky skills out there on that field??? Because out there we are less than inconsequential to the opposition and our team mates alike. Construction Professionals need to get out of the little insulated huddle we are in and move away from moaning to each other about how unfair the system is. The system doesn’t care. It’s a dirtier game than we have ever played. We are too polite and being polite is seen as being weak and inconsequential. It’s laughed at and derised by the opposition. The only way this game is won is by making sure the Public start calling the fouls and see the fouls taking place. That is what Politicians and Civil Servants fear most. That means they have to start playing hurling. Playing fair. Remember how the Senior Citizens pulled that off??? Remember the Medical Card debacle??? They knew how to Play Junior B Hurling!!! They understood the rules of the game. They got fouled. They made damn sure the foul was called and seen for what it was. Dirty Play. Politicians couldn’t any longer play the man there. And the court of public opinion was going to be watching closely after that. But that takes us as a body of professionals to get out of our own huddle and get out on the streets to protest this, make the public aware and start hurting the politicians and civil servants who are trying so hard to protect their own skins. Jab your hurley into their ribs for a change. Get off the ground and shake off the muck. Stand up for ourselves. For instance....if as a group of bodies, the RIAI, Engineers Ireland and the Chartered Surveyors directed their members that, as and from a mutually agreed date,(e.g. 1st October) they should flat out refuse to be Assigned Certifiers, refuse to lodge any Commencement Notice under any terms, then the outcry would be massive. Yes it’s dirty. Yes it’s ugly. Yes it’s even playing the man, not the ball. It would grind the system to a halt. No client anywhere could build a house. Yes the backlash would be ugly and Architects, Engineers and Chartered Surveyors would be potentially in the firing line for abuse by the Public. Yes it would even hurt our pockets too. But at least the game would be visible for what it is. Not hurling...just every man for himself. And we don’t want to play that game. Let the Public see the reality of the injustice and how it directly affects them too. Most of them came to see a game of hurling. Show them it’s not what you are being allowed to play. Let the crowd see the blood on your shins and your broken knuckles. Let them call the foul. And get off your knees, stop crying, and start doing it now. Because like every game there is a time limit. We are playing to a clock here and we are running out of time. I feel that if this legislation is not seriously challenged and fought in a very public way with the Public on our side, and done within the next 6 months then we might as well give up now, because the Regulations will be here to stay. RIAI EGM's, drawing up alternatives, bitching to the opposition about how dirty they are WON’T WORK. WAKE UP AND UNDERSTAND THIS NOW!!! The Public hold the key. Get everyone involved and point the blame back squarely at the Minister, Government and Civil Service...they won’t stop fouling us unless we do. As Michael Collins best put it, our best weapon is our refusal. Our refusal to be participants in a situation where our collective professional lives are at the whim of a political game of pass the buck. Don't engage. Don't play their game. With every Commencement Notice that we lodge we strengthen their resolve and give them solace that they have won, we are cowed, beaten, and yes we may be giving out, but they aren't losing any votes or any sleep over this. Until Politicians face a reeal threat of lost votes they will happily ignore us all and keep S.I.9 on the statute books.
RITwing wrote: » source
sydthebeat wrote: » Heard yesterday of a client given a figure of €53, 000 for professional services from start to finish for a large rural one off.
DOCARCH wrote: » E53K for what? What professional services?
astrofluff wrote: » Was that just an architect's fee for elements in his/her field? If so, what would the extra fees be on QS, project manager, engineer? I am sure there's plenty missing from the €53k which needs to be made up!
astrofluff wrote: » Not missing the point - just confirming that even the €53k wasn't the full fee for professional input on the project.
Queen of Sheebs wrote: » ....he has quoted an additional €500 plus vat for being a "project Supervisor" for all aspects of health and safety on the project. Can anyone please advise where we stand in relation to this??
Queen of Sheebs wrote: » We're building an extension onto our home. We employed an architect... Cost about €3000 to bring us to the construction drawings. We are trying to register as a self-build as my husband's dad is a retired builder and is offering to do the roof for us. We have a building contractor who is going to do the grounds work, raft, demolition, block work and plastering and finish the site. He may also be supplying the electrician and plumber. He is happy to work with my husband's father. We have an engineer who is doing the structural drawings and has quoted for us to be the assigned certifier for the project. However, he has quoted an additional €500 plus vat for being a "project Supervisor" for all aspects of health and safety on the project. Can anyone please advise where we stand in relation to this?? Fees for the new regulations are getting out of control!!!! Thanks.
RORY O CONNOR wrote: » December 2013 new regs came into place. It is the builders responsibility to work to all Health and safety requirements.
RORY O CONNOR wrote: » Sorry Typo- It was December 2012 that the majority of the current building regs came into place due to revisions or additions-Particularly TDG Part L.
