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Is it self defeatist to say that some men are meant to be alone??‏

SharpshooterTom

I'm just beginning to wonder about this because I've recently turned 28 (so I'm not exactly a kid anymore) and I've never been in a relationship, never kissed a girl, and and yes not surprisingly I'm still a virgin LOL. And whats more depressing is that I've never been remotely close in actually having any of those experiences!

If I am being hoenst I've been plagued with all sorts of social problems throughout my teenage years and adult life, social anxiety (putting people off me as if I smell of B.O.) which lead to me socially avoiding people (I felt I was so unappealing to people I felt I had no choice) and so a viscous cycle had then ensured. This continued throughout school and university to the point where I snapped and fell into deep depression and few years back (extremely low self esteem) I attempted suicide.

I got help though with therapy and CBT (I used to post in the depression thread in AH and people there were a great help!), so I'm ok now, I'm improving aspects of my life. But I've still not yet improved aspects of my social life greatly in any real way. Sure I'm not as socially anxious, and certainly not socially avoidant, but I still don't have any real friends. I get the impression I'm just not that appealing as a person and perhaps its the way its meant to be.

I mean in the 40 year old virgin, he at least he had a happy ending, unless I went to an escort, there's every chance I'm probably going to die this way! :eek:

Is it too self defeatist to suggest that some men, whether they like it or not, are destined to be alone for the rest of their lives? Is it too unrealistic for some us to contemplate a relationship?

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Mike747

Daveysil15 wrote: »

It can be fun of course. I think it largely depends on how you're rejected. Some girls can politely decline while others can be complete bitches about it. If you're let down easy it makes it easier to approach other girls.

Yeah that's true but its rare that you see a brutal rejection. In my experience most girls are quite happy to get talking to guy, providing you're somewhat attractive and not a social retard.

The trick is to fly under the radar and make her think you're a decent guy and not the sex crazed weirdo you actually are. When you've got her comfortable, then you start to ramp things up.

Daveysil15

Mike747 wrote: »

Yeah that's true but its rare that you see a brutal rejection. In my experience most girls are quite happy to get talking to guy, providing you're somewhat attractive and not a social retard.

The trick is to fly under the radar and make her think you're a decent guy and not the sex crazed weirdo you actually are. When you've got her comfortable, then you start to ramp things up.

Ahh holy jasus.

blacklilly

Mike747 wrote: »

Yeah that's true but its rare that you see a brutal rejection. In my experience most girls are quite happy to get talking to guy, providing you're somewhat attractive and not a social retard.

The trick is to fly under the radar and make her think you're a decent guy and not the sex crazed weirdo you actually are. When you've got her comfortable, then you start to ramp things up.

You are making me seriously consider remaining single.

The utter crap you are sprouting is frightening, thankfully it would seem most people are of the same opinion as me.

audi12

B0jangles wrote: »

I'm sorry but that is plain, unadulterated Bollocks.

Women get "friendzoned" all the time, except (in my experience) it is usually referred to as "he's just not into you". When it happened to me I pined for a while, then I got the hell over it and accepted that not everyone I'm really attracted to is going to feel the same way about me. That's life - either you accept that friendship is all that is on offer and choose to be an actual friend, or you move on.

Any moderated attractive woman does not get friend zoned unless on very rare occasions if your not fat it wont happen unless the very odd time laugable to suggest otherwise

audi12

Mike747 wrote: »

Yeah that's true but its rare that you see a brutal rejection. In my experience most girls are quite happy to get talking to guy, providing you're somewhat attractive and not a social retard.

The trick is to fly under the radar and make her think you're a decent guy and not the sex crazed weirdo you actually are. When you've got her comfortable, then you start to ramp things up.

If most open were straightforward there would be no need for us to act that way but because they are not we have to i agree with you

B0jangles

audi12 wrote: »

Any moderated attractive woman does not get friend zoned unless on very rare occasions if your not fat it wont happen unless the very odd time laugable to suggest otherwise

I guess I'm going to have to bow to your greater knowledge of my own life and experiences so.

audi12

B0jangles wrote: »

I guess I'm going to have to bow to your greater knowledge of my own life and experiences so.

seems so

Mike747

blacklilly wrote: »

You are making me seriously consider remaining single.

The utter crap you are sprouting is frightening, thankfully it would seem most people are of the same opinion as me.

Sorry for scaring you.

blacklilly

Mike747 wrote: »

Sorry for scaring you.

Seriously though, I would strongly suggest that you evaluate the way in which you think about women and your thoughts concerning how to attract women etc. You should be scared that your thoughts/opinions haven't scared you.

Minimix

Mike747 wrote: »

Sorry for scaring you.

I'm scared too!:-/

Wibbs

Mike747 wrote: »

I would say quite a lot of men would sleep with their female friends if the opportunity arose.

And quite a lot of men wouldn't. This isn't Saudi Arabia here, we can control our impulses and more we may not have those impulses in the first place with mates who just happen to be women.

Kelly06 wrote: »

Would you not attach any value in a platonic friendship with a woman?

Ehhhh... yea. Obvious thing is, or should be obvious. A mate is a mate. The external/internal position of their gonads really doesn't come into it if they're mates. Not for me anyway. It's very good for a different angle on things(and they may set you up with mates of theirs, though my women mates know me too well, so usually set me up with enemies. The bitches), though it's often not that different. So if you go to a mate who's a man looking for advice he might say "eh you're in a trainwreck Ted" and then you go to your woman mate hoping for more succour and she says "eh you're in a trainwreck Ted".

TBH over the years I have found I like women as friends and end up liking them less as lovers, in the sense that I can seemingly select for very cool women as mates, but am Stevie fcukin Wonder blind when I select for romantic entanglements. Stick a self centered narcissistic Chick(tm) in a room and I'll home in on her and she in turn will home in on me. So often I've been in romantic relationships with Normal(tm) women and it never lasted. Jaysus I need help.

Daveysil15 wrote: »

A lot of couples start off as friends so there's no harm in having a few female friends.

TBH, or at least IME that's rare enough. Depends on the age though. For 21 year olds it's a lot rarer than for say 51 year olds.

B0jangles wrote: »

I'm sorry but that is plain, unadulterated Bollocks.

Women get "friendzoned" all the time, except (in my experience) it is usually referred to as "he's just not into you".

+1000. And some might be surprised by the women who got that speech. Or didn't. I have found men are generally more cowardly in such things.

Daveysil15 wrote: »

It can be fun of course. I think it largely depends on how you're rejected. Some girls can politely decline while others can be complete bitches about it. If you're let down easy it makes it easier to approach other girls.

Funny I took the opposite view. Being rejected by a "complete bitch" was easy peasy. Along the lines of she's being a dick so why da fuq should my dick/brain/heart want to engage her any further. The polite ones registered more in some ways. Then you'd think "oh she's actually a nice person and has a hold on social interaction and isn't a bitch, that's more of a loss". Some wan being a Chick(tm) had little effect on me other than to waste my bloody time.

Mike747

blacklilly wrote: »

Seriously though, I would strongly suggest that you evaluate the way in which you think about women and your thoughts concerning how to attract women etc. You should be scared that your thoughts/opinions haven't scared you.

Why would I do that when my thoughts on women and how to attract them has served me well for the last eight years or so?

Wibbs

audi12 wrote: »

Any moderated attractive woman does not get friend zoned unless on very rare occasions if your not fat it wont happen unless the very odd time laugable to suggest otherwise

Nope. Hate to break it to you, but nope. I've seen it and seen it more than once. I've seen pretty damned attractive women being friendzoned in such a fashion.

There's also another angle. I call it Bonkzone(tm)(c) Wibbs 2002. Where a woman is getting the sex from a guy she likes, but feck all else. It's like reverso friendzone. If I was define a gender non specific Zone, I'd say as a general rule, men in that zone are looking for a sexual angle to add to the emotional/commitment, but are supplying the latter and getting nada of the former. Women in the Zone are looking for an emotional/commitment angle to add to the sexual, but are supplying the latter and getting nada of the former. And IMHO there are as many women in the Zone as there are men. It's just coming from a slightly different angle.

[Deleted User]

Minimix wrote: »

I'm scared too!:-/

As am I.

Kelly06

Mike747 wrote: »

I don't have any close female friends. All my close friends are male. And to be honest I prefer it that way. Maybe it gets different when you're older, but when when a young guy in his twenties meets a girl (one that he finds attractive) he isn't thinking 'what a great opportunity to make a new friend' he's thinking 'how can I get into her pants'. I'm not trying to upset anyone by saying that, I just believe it to be how most, if not all, young men think.

Do you mind me asking what age you are Mike?

Mike747

Kelly06 wrote: »

Do you mind me asking what age you are Mike?

29.

Piliger

Mike747 wrote: »

Why would I do that when my thoughts on women and how to attract them has served me well for the last eight years or so?

Hardly the issue. What is being referred to is your expectation of what 'served me well' actually means.

eviltwin

Mike there is no harm in widening your social circle to include a few women. Do any of your mates have girlfriends? How about sisters? Are there any women you work with you would go drinking with socially. Even if they are not women you would be interested in they may have friends you would be

Piliger

Mike747 wrote: »

But why should they? It's really just being afraid of your ego being bruised. Of course if you've obsessed over a girl for a year and have finally worked up the courage to ask her out then rejection would be devastating but really, you shouldn't have allowed yourself to get into that position.

In a bar it should be fun to approach random girls.

It may be 'fun' for you but it smacks to most people as desperate superficial shallowness.

Mike747

Piliger wrote: »

Hardly the issue. What is being referred to is your expectation of what 'served me well' actually means.

Well at the end of the day all that matters to me is living life on my terms. A few girls getting upset on Boards isn't going to keep me up at night.

Mike747

Piliger wrote: »

It may be 'fun' for you but it smacks to most people as desperate superficial shallowness.

To me it seems more like not being too invested in what other people think of you. How many guys go home every night thinking 'if only I had talked to her'.

Kelly06

Mike747 wrote: »

29.

I thought you were older, ye seem so jaded with it all.. I mean no disrespect by that all but you seem to hate us, women that is. I just think it's sad .... Most of us are not so bad really

Sauve

Mod

Mike747 will be taking a little break from the forum. Please do not reply to his posts.

Cheers,
Sauve

[Deleted User]

B0jangles wrote: »

I'm sorry but that is plain, unadulterated Bollocks.

Women get "friendzoned" all the time, except (in my experience) it is usually referred to as "he's just not into you".

Are you hot though? :pac:

I got "friendzoned" recently. It was a genuine one this time though. :P For once though I genuinely do think "Meh, her loss". She still wants to be friends and hang out, I can just about stop myself doing it thankfully, I'm not gonna feel good doing it.
Recently I met someone I hadn't seen in a while. I've had a soft spot for her and the opportunity never arose. If it does I'll go for it, if not then tough titty for me.

beks101

I'm guessing all the guys here saying 'platonic friendship between a man and a woman is impossible' are the same guys that don't actually have any female friends. Therefore they're used to looking at women strictly in a sexual way and can't get beyond that.

I'm pretty sure if I texted something absurd and totally unrealistic to my male mates about being laid out on some hotel bed waiting to be fcuked by them, they'd either think I was shyte-faced and not respond or rip the utter piss out of me. I may as well text it to my female friends while I'm at it, it would be that bloody bizarre.

And it's not necessarily that we are utterly repulsed by one another and that's what makes platonic friendship possible. A few of the lads are pretty damn attractive and they'd probably say I'm not so bad looking either. Same as my other female friends. Not 'fat', 'plain', 'average', whatever 'disqualifiers' you want to use. Really pretty women. It's that sex/romance/girlfriend-boyfriend was never on the table in the first place. We bonded as friends at college/at work/through other friends and that just always took precedence over any drunken fumble that could have occurred.

No doubt there are countless scenarios of some lad secretly pining for his 'best friend' and some chick secretly loving that she's got her 'mate' firmly under the thumb, but it's fairly hard to digest this idea that a mature, socialized adult can't relate to a woman as an interesting person they'd like to hang out with, without it being all about the various levels to which they'd like to get the leg over. That's not been my experience.

paddy1990

beks101 wrote: »

I'm guessing all the guys here saying 'platonic friendship between a man and a woman is impossible' are the same guys that don't actually have any female friends. Therefore they're used to looking at women strictly in a sexual way and can't get beyond that.

You've guessed wrongly. Why do you feel the need to negatively characterize people who disagree with you? They "don't have any female friends and can't get beyond seeing women in a sexual way". Pretty big assumption to make and quite egotistical to think you can deduce that much about their lives from their posts on a forum wouldn't you say?

paddy1990

beks101 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure if I texted something absurd and totally unrealistic to my male mates about being laid out on some hotel bed waiting to be fcuked by them, they'd either think I was shyte-faced and not respond or rip the utter piss out of me. I may as well text it to my female friends while I'm at it, it would be that bloody bizarre.

Id agree here. I certainly suggested doing nothing of the sort. I suggested a more socially intelligent approach as opposed to texting something absurd about being laid out on some hotel bed waiting for a shag. Shame you completely misunderstood the point.

beks101 wrote: »

And it's not necessarily that we are utterly repulsed by one another and that's what makes platonic friendship possible. A few of the lads are pretty damn attractive and they'd probably say I'm not so bad looking either. Same as my other female friends. Not 'fat', 'plain', 'average', whatever 'disqualifiers' you want to use. Really pretty women. It's that sex/romance/girlfriend-boyfriend was never on the table in the first place. We bonded as friends at college/at work/through other friends and that just always took precedence over any drunken fumble that could have occurred.

No doubt there are countless scenarios of some lad secretly pining for his 'best friend' and some chick secretly loving that she's got her 'mate' firmly under the thumb, but it's fairly hard to digest this idea that a mature, socialized adult can't relate to a woman as an interesting person they'd like to hang out with, without it being all about the various levels to which they'd like to get the leg over. That's not been my experience.

Well at least you admit to finding the "friends" pretty damn attractive and that they likely find you attractive. We can make the obvious inferences from that. Perhaps we agree more than I realized.

beks101

paddy1990 wrote: »

Well at least you admit to finding the "friends" pretty damn attractive and that they likely find you attractive. We can make the obvious inferences from that. Perhaps we agree more than I realized.

The inference being?

My sister is pretty damn attractive too. And I've a cousin who turns heads everywhere he goes. Do I want to shag them too?

paddy1990

beks101 wrote: »

The inference being?

My sister is pretty damn attractive too. And I've a cousin who turns heads everywhere he goes. Do I want to shag them too?

Why are you asking me who you want to shag?

kiffer

What I find odd about the whole thing is that if you have a man and a woman who are good friends they may both end up in a situation where neither is interested in the other directly; though both might acknowledge that the other is physically attractive, fun to be around, a great friend and so on.
If a stranger to the social group mentions the possibility of sexy times happening between the two I have noticed that women will say somthing like "ewwww, Jimmy's like a brother to me" but the guy will be a bit more "nah, wouldn't work out/not interested in her in that way" type response.

I've seen it or similar happen a few times, happened to me once and the part that stung wasn't that my friend wasn't sexually interested in me but that the idea of sex was disgusting.

I think men and womenncan definitely be friends with out the ghost of sexual interest hovering over their heads but I also think the friendzone is a thing...
but in a more classic Ross and Rachel type form.
And I have seen it go both ways.

[Silly hypothetical example deleted]

Long story short, only one fancies the other but can't get away from the other for social reasons. The attraction doesn't really fade away and it sucks for everyone.