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Is it self defeatist to say that some men are meant to be alone??‏

SharpshooterTom

I'm just beginning to wonder about this because I've recently turned 28 (so I'm not exactly a kid anymore) and I've never been in a relationship, never kissed a girl, and and yes not surprisingly I'm still a virgin LOL. And whats more depressing is that I've never been remotely close in actually having any of those experiences!

If I am being hoenst I've been plagued with all sorts of social problems throughout my teenage years and adult life, social anxiety (putting people off me as if I smell of B.O.) which lead to me socially avoiding people (I felt I was so unappealing to people I felt I had no choice) and so a viscous cycle had then ensured. This continued throughout school and university to the point where I snapped and fell into deep depression and few years back (extremely low self esteem) I attempted suicide.

I got help though with therapy and CBT (I used to post in the depression thread in AH and people there were a great help!), so I'm ok now, I'm improving aspects of my life. But I've still not yet improved aspects of my social life greatly in any real way. Sure I'm not as socially anxious, and certainly not socially avoidant, but I still don't have any real friends. I get the impression I'm just not that appealing as a person and perhaps its the way its meant to be.

I mean in the 40 year old virgin, he at least he had a happy ending, unless I went to an escort, there's every chance I'm probably going to die this way! :eek:

Is it too self defeatist to suggest that some men, whether they like it or not, are destined to be alone for the rest of their lives? Is it too unrealistic for some us to contemplate a relationship?

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Classicporter

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

When people say "successful", do they mean scoring a one night stand?

To me success is having options with women, being able to go out and more than likely being able to take home a woman you find very attractive or enter into a relationship with a woman you find very attractive on a consistent basis.

Piliger

Classicporter wrote: »

To me success is having options with women, being able to go out and more than likely being able to take home a woman you find very attractive or enter into a relationship with a woman you find very attractive on a consistent basis.

Consistent is very subjective. Most men would consider managing to find an enjoyable relationship once a year or so would be pretty successful. Very few men get into the kind of 'pull' and 'take a women home regularly' nonsense.

Bafucin

Piliger wrote: »

Consistent is very subjective. Most men would consider managing to find an enjoyable relationship once a year or so would be pretty successful. Very few men get into the kind of 'pull' and 'take a women home regularly' nonsense.

Don't judge the lifestyle of another. So long as they are honest and respectful to the other party leave people to feel good about what makes them feel good.

Classicporter

Piliger wrote: »

Consistent is very subjective. Most men would consider managing to find an enjoyable relationship once a year or so would be pretty successful. Very few men get into the kind of 'pull' and 'take a women home regularly' nonsense.

I don't see how wanting to pull women regularly as you put it is nonsense.

TheBeardedLady

Classicporter wrote: »

To me success is having options with women, being able to go out and more than likely being able to take home a woman you find very attractive or enter into a relationship with a woman you find very attractive on a consistent basis.

I ask because the advice for both would differ greatly.

Pug160

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

When people say "successful", do they mean scoring a one night stand?

I think most people probably mean success in every way. IMO the vast majority of men want to end up in a fulfilling relationship at some point, so it has to be assumed that that is the ultimate overall goal for most people who want to be 'successful'.

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Probably if I thought a one night stand was on the cards, but not if I was looking for something more.

I never said women don't have to make any effort, but shyness is not as much of a hindrance for women as it is for men.

No arguments there.

Why would it be a hollow victory? It's not like you're cheating. It's just a different dating environment where you may have more options.

For me it was a realisation that I wasn't so bad after all. It's just that I had feck all options back home.

Oh I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it in itself, but if I went over there without sorting out my problems here first, I just wouldn't get the same sort of satisfaction, as it would still be in the back of my mind that I didn't push myself enough and reach my full potential back here.

It may be tough here compared to certain other parts of the world, and as I said before, we are very immature when it comes to our philosophy on dating and sex etc. But even so, most natives end up with other natives, and while it's true that some girls are picky, it's not like every desirable girl is running around with chiseled jawed Channing Tatum lookalikes with high status.

A friend of mine has inspired me recently, Davey. He was a rather awkward computer programmer guy and a couple of years ago he decided to improve himself. I only found out the full extent of his success last week. He's now in a serious relationship for the first time at 32. He said he just decided to test himself a lot more and really put the effort in. He ended up going though a lot of women but it wasn't in an egotistical chauvinist kind of way - he simply needed to meet a lot of people before he found someone compatible. If you can truly put your hand up and say you've done everything in your power to better yourself then that's fair enough, but it's very unlikely. We need some success stories on here for a change, instead of this constant doom and gloom.

TheBeardedLady

Pug160 wrote: »

I think most people probably mean success in every way. IMO the vast majority of men want to end up in a fulfilling relationship at some point, so it has to be assumed that that is the ultimate overall goal for most people who want to be 'successful'.

Fair enough. I can just imagine, though, that for a guy with no experience at all of women that it all seems very overwhelming. You have to be this, you have to be that blah blah.

My boyfriend is a nerd and was his whole life (I say that affectionately - he's a smart, academic, curious kinda fella and I love that about him). He didn't get lucky with women until his 30s (he's in his 40s now) and by the sounds of it, his 20s sounded really disastrous when it came to women. His brother is the same. They're both quite shy and I suppose introverted and my boyfriend told me he could never talk to women he fancied and even how he asked me out, a man who'd just turned 40, is

Thing is, he's got some very good female friends and he can really relate to women. He "gets" them completely. Someone asked earlier about the benefits of having female friends and I think that's the main one - simply being able to view women as equals and as flawed humans and not some alien specify there to be figured out in order to "gain access" (pun not really intended ;-) ).

He's disastrous at cold approaching women (we'd been playing eye tennis for ages before he finally plucked up the courage to send my friend a message to arrange a meeting where we'd "accidentally" meet - cringe!) and I could smell drink off his breath on our first date because he'd had a few cans to calm the nerves (he's not a drinker) but as a boyfriend, he's wonderful and I really do think how he relates to me is down to having female friends and not viewing women as solely there to either shag or marry.

My advice would be to join groups or get yourself into situations where there's both genders and try to talk to women you're not necessarily interested in THAT way and to get comfortable with us and hopefully you'll realise we're only human like you and nothing to be afraid of.

And that's all I have to say on the matter! I'll leave yous to it! :-)

Wibbs

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

When people say "successful", do they mean scoring a one night stand?

That would be part of it TBL, if that's what they want, but mostly as has been said they have more choice. They don't hope to "get lucky" and settle down with the first woman that responds to them kinda thing. Choice is always good. It gives someone options.

I ask because the advice for both would differ greatly.

Yea and no. If a guy can regularly get one night stands he's clearly got more attractive qualities(physical and personality on initial meeting) to more women than a guy who can't. Now such a man doesn't have to do the one night stand thing, but it means if he's looking for an actual relationship again he's got more choice and leeway. It would depend on other factors too. One would be what type of partner does a particular man want.

I would also say and going by observation that the guy with more choice tends to be better off in relationships too. He's a lot less likely to stick in a bad one for a start and a lot less likely to take crap. I've seen too many men stay in bad relationships because they think a) they got "lucky", b) she's "out of his league" and c) if they lose her they'll never find as good again. That lot makes them stay where otherwise they'd have walked long before. Plus if a guy feels like that he becomes clingy and a surer way to turn a woman off hasn't been discovered.

There has been much talk about male looks in the thread, but I have known quite the number of men who were good looking men, certainly better looking than the women they were with, but who worked the above a/b/c thinking and had done so from their teens. They never seemed to cop that they had options and that they could have been with much better looking women who weren't harpies if they had copped on to that.

On another note...

EdenHazard wrote: »

Yeah that's true, but I don't get annoyed by what you would maybe classify as typically ugly guys, what I mean is ugly south county dublin rugby players with rotten faces(no homo)

What the jumpin feck is this "no homo" ballsology I'm seeing on the interwebs, especially on "manosphere/PUA" type forums and especially in ones more based in the US? Seriously? WTF? So some guys are so unsure of themselves they cant say "oh yer man is a good looking bloke" without qualifying that with a meme plea that they shouldn't be mistaken for a gay bloke? Again WTF? What's the worry here? You're either straight or gay. Do gay guys end sentences with (homo)? Or on gay forums do gay fellas say (No straight) if they describe a woman as good looking? No they don't. Indeed in general gay fellas are all too happy to say "X is a goooorgeous looking woman"*. So all you "no homo" guys who may be out there reading this, It seems actual "homos" are more sure of themselves and their sexuality than a lot of straight guys seem to be.

*actually on that note I have found that if I'm about to meet a female "friend of a friend" on a setting me up scenario the gay blokes I've known are a much better judge of a woman's likely attractiveness to me than straight women are.

Bafucin

Wibbs wrote: »

On another note...
What the jumpin feck is this "no homo" ballsology I'm seeing on the interwebs, especially on "manosphere/PUA" type forums and especially in ones more based in the US? Seriously? WTF? So some guys are so unsure of themselves they cant say "oh yer man is a good looking bloke" without qualifying that with a meme plea that they shouldn't be mistaken for a gay bloke? Again WTF? What's the worry here? You're either straight or gay. Do gay guys end sentences with (homo)? Or on gay forums do gay fellas say (No straight) if they describe a woman as good looking? No they don't. Indeed in general gay fellas are all too happy to say "X is a goooorgeous looking woman"*. So all you "no homo" guys who may be out there reading this, It seems actual "homos" are more sure of themselves and their sexuality than a lot of straight guys seem to be.

*actually on that note I have found that if I'm about to meet a female "friend of a friend" on a setting me up scenario the gay blokes I've known are a much better judge of a woman's likely attractiveness to me than straight women are.

It's funny how Men's rights never seem to apply to gay men and how PUA does not seem to appeal to gay men trying to pick up gay men.

I think some straight men fear that gay men will treat them like they themselves treat women.

EdenHazard

Wibbs wrote: »

That would be part of it TBL, if that's what they want, but mostly as has been said they have more choice. They don't hope to "get lucky" and settle down with the first woman that responds to them kinda thing. Choice is always good. It gives someone options.

Yea and no. If a guy can regularly get one night stands he's clearly got more attractive qualities(physical and personality on initial meeting) to more women than a guy who can't. Now such a man doesn't have to do the one night stand thing, but it means if he's looking for an actual relationship again he's got more choice and leeway. It would depend on other factors too. One would be what type of partner does a particular man want.

I would also say and going by observation that the guy with more choice tends to be better off in relationships too. He's a lot less likely to stick in a bad one for a start and a lot less likely to take crap. I've seen too many men stay in bad relationships because they think a) they got "lucky", b) she's "out of his league" and c) if they lose her they'll never find as good again. That lot makes them stay where otherwise they'd have walked long before. Plus if a guy feels like that he becomes clingy and a surer way to turn a woman off hasn't been discovered.

There has been much talk about male looks in the thread, but I have known quite the number of men who were good looking men, certainly better looking than the women they were with, but who worked the above a/b/c thinking and had done so from their teens. They never seemed to cop that they had options and that they could have been with much better looking women who weren't harpies if they had copped on to that.

On another note...
What the jumpin feck is this "no homo" ballsology I'm seeing on the interwebs, especially on "manosphere/PUA" type forums and especially in ones more based in the US? Seriously? WTF? So some guys are so unsure of themselves they cant say "oh yer man is a good looking bloke" without qualifying that with a meme plea that they shouldn't be mistaken for a gay bloke? Again WTF? What's the worry here? You're either straight or gay. Do gay guys end sentences with (homo)? Or on gay forums do gay fellas say (No straight) if they describe a woman as good looking? No they don't. Indeed in general gay fellas are all too happy to say "X is a goooorgeous looking woman"*. So all you "no homo" guys who may be out there reading this, It seems actual "homos" are more sure of themselves and their sexuality than a lot of straight guys seem to be.

*actually on that note I have found that if I'm about to meet a female "friend of a friend" on a setting me up scenario the gay blokes I've known are a much better judge of a woman's likely attractiveness to me than straight women are.

Chill, I openly say Bieber, Efron, Zayn Malik etc. are good looking.

Being successful to me is finding a hot girl. I suck in clubs because I don't approach girls and tbh most girls in Irish clubs are well, the less said the better. We can all win the League of Ireland, but Champions League is where it counts. Its all about quality afterall.

I'm not successful in a club scene at all due to a few factors(I'm the least forward person ever and I wait for girls to come to me, lol I'm also 5'8'' which I think sucks in a club environment but thanks to Tinder/Instagram I pull hotter girls than any of my friends. Too much factors come into play in a club, least with Tinder its completely based on how hot you are, no status, no 'confidence'(much easier to take online)
I'm a nice person but I take joy in the fact that when I attract girls its not because of my 'confidence' or 'charm', just my face :P

Bafucin

I'm a nice person but I take joy in the fact that when I attract girls its not because of my 'confidence' or 'charm', just my face

That is heartbreaking. You don't value the best thing about you. It screams insecurity.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Classicporter

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

I ask because the advice for both would differ greatly.

Before a man settles down in a long term relationship I believe it's usually advisable to learn how to attract women in general. Learning how to consistently get one night stands or casual see with attractive women makes it much easier to find the type of woman you want when you settle down. For a start you won't have to settle for a particular woman because you can't attract the type of women that you really want, then there's the fact you are less likely to tolerate disrespectful behaviour in a relationship because you know you can easily find other attractive women to go out with. If I have a son one day my advice to him will be to go out and have set with lots of women while you're young, learn how to attract the women you want and to have the option to choose which women you like. Then if the day comes when you want to settle down you will have a wealth of experience and the confidence that you can get an attractive girlfriend whenever you want.

Wibbs

Bafucin wrote: »

It's funny how Men's rights never seem to apply to gay men

That's mostly the US version of men's rights, much of which comes from guys who feel very hard done by because of divorce so gay guys don't really figure in their world. Plus US culture is both liberal and homophobic in near equal measure so they tend to be more the latter.

and how PUA does not seem to appeal to gay men trying to pick up gay men.

Well to be fair PUA stuff is for straight men aimed at straight women, so it's hardly applicable. It's a different dating/sexual environment.

EdenHazard wrote: »

Chill, I openly say Bieber, Efron, Zayn Malik etc. are good looking.

Cool. I just wondered WTF is this no homo nonsense I've been seeing of late.

Being successful to me is finding a hot girl. I suck in clubs because I don't approach girls and tbh most girls in Irish clubs are well, the less said the better.

*gets popcorn*

We can all win the League of Ireland, but Champions League is where it counts. Its all about quality afterall.

Wut?

Bafucin wrote: »

That is heartbreaking. You don't value the best thing about you. It screams insecurity.

He's apparently getting "hot girls", while avoiding the "most girls shebeasts in Irish clubs" and in a manner that works for him so it's hardly heartbreaking. Never mind that he "takes joy" in this and fair enough. Not everything can be explained away or fixed by the application of the tag "insecurity/self esteem/be yourself" or whatever post Oprah collective self help feels stuff is popular. The proof of the pudding is that EdenHazard is doing ok ta very much and happy with it. A lot happier than a lot of the men on the thread who aren't getting jack.

TheBeardedLady

Classicporter wrote: »

Before a man settles down in a long term relationship I believe it's usually advisable to learn how to attract women in general. Learning how to consistently get one night stands or casual see with attractive women makes it much easier to find the type of woman you want when you settle down. For a start you won't have to settle for a particular woman because you can't attract the type of women that you really want, then there's the fact you are less likely to tolerate disrespectful behaviour in a relationship because you know you can easily find other attractive women to go out with. If I have a son one day my advice to him will be to go out and have set with lots of women while you're young, learn how to attract the women you want and to have the option to choose which women you like. Then if the day comes when you want to settle down you will have a wealth of experience and the confidence that you can get an attractive girlfriend whenever you want.

Tbh man, even the most attractive man in the world can't decide tomorrow to go out and meet the woman they want to settle down with and FOR IT TO WORK (because a relationship, you'd hope, would be long-term. You hardly go into a relationship expecting it to end soon). It's much more complicated than that and moves beyond sexual attraction. The day-to-day of a relationship is so much more than just sexual attraction and being able to relate a person of the opposite sex in a normal way outside the bedroom/pub-club environment would be more helpful to you LONG-TERM imo.

Ireland is a culture where people get pissed and score with each other. The alcohol gives them dutch courage and yes, people are "sucessful" getting each other into a bed but it's not much good in the cold light of day.

Not against the idea of ONSs having been there, done that myself but I never got to know the men properly or learned anything new about men bar how to flirt with them. I'd recommend friendships with the opposite sex and yes, if you can meet women in bars for ONSs, grand, enjoy yourself but with all due respect, telling someone who has zero experience with women to go and sleep with as many women as possible is not REALLY helpful or realistic.

Just to add, that I've meet men who've tolerated a lot of bull**** from women for a ride only to have a very negative impression of women overall. "Women are bitches". Well, yes, because you give those women the time of day when they should really be told where to go.

I know myself in the past when I've clearly NOT been interested in the guy talking to me and I've been curt but polite (although I'm no bitch and treat people respectfully if they're respectful towards me) and they continue, you know the fella is desperate and is there for sex. I suppose if you're going to sleep with people, at least try and sleep with the reasonably nice women and men who don't treat you like muck to help you form a healthy opinion of women.

Classicporter

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Tbh man, even the most attractive man in the world can't decide tomorrow to go out and meet the woman they want to settle down with and FOR IT TO WORK (because a relationship, you'd hope, would be long-term. You hardly go into a relationship expecting it to end soon). It's much more complicated than that and moves beyond sexual attraction. The day-to-day of a relationship is so much more than just sexual attraction and being able to relate a person of the opposite sex in a normal way outside the bedroom/pub-club environment would be more helpful to you LONG-TERM imo.

Ireland is a culture where people get pissed and score with each other. The alcohol gives them dutch courage and yes, people are "sucessful" getting each other into a bed but it's not much good in the cold light of day.

Not against the idea of ONSs having been there, done that myself but I never got to know the men properly or learned anything new about men bar how to flirt with them. I'd recommend friendships with the opposite sex and yes, if you can meet women in bars for ONSs, grand, enjoy yourself but with all due respect, telling someone who has zero experience with women to go and sleep with as many women as possible is not REALLY helpful or realistic.

Just to add, that I've meet men who've tolerated a lot of bull**** from women for a ride only to have a very negative impression of women overall. "Women are bitches". Well, yes, because you give those women the time of day when they should really be told where to go.

I know myself in the past when I've clearly NOT been interested in the guy talking to me and I've been curt but polite (although I'm no bitch and treat people respectfully if they're respectful towards me) and they continue, you know the fella is desperate and is there for sex. I suppose if you're going to sleep with people, at least try and sleep with the reasonably nice women and men who don't treat you like muck to help you form a healthy opinion of women.

You can learn more about women by going out and meeting more women, flirting with them, having one night stands, having casual/open relationships etc. Through experience you can become better at attracting women and learn more about women in general.

I never said you can go out tomorrow and find the woman you want to settle down with. My point was when you build up your ability to attract women in general it gives you more options. Therefore you have a greater chance of being able to choose a woman that would be best for you or close to the best fit for you if you choose to settle down. Also, you have the option of never settling down.

Pug160

Wibbs wrote: »

He's apparently getting "hot girls", while avoiding the "most girls shebeasts in Irish clubs" and in a manner that works for him so it's hardly heartbreaking. Never mind that he "takes joy" in this and fair enough. Not everything can be explained away or fixed by the application of the tag "insecurity/self esteem/be yourself" or whatever post Oprah collective self help feels stuff is popular. The proof of the pudding is that EdenHazard is doing ok ta very much and happy with it. A lot happier than a lot of the men on the thread who aren't getting jack.

Wibbs, the last thing he needs is to be mollycoddled - going by what I've read. He's not talking to girls and while it's possible that he's a decent lad it sounds as though he has a mixture of insecurity and conceit going on. If he's meeting girls then yeah, he's doing alright in that regard, but to suggest that getting laid in itself will make a man happier than becoming a better person is both wrong and irresponsible, especially coming from a poster like you who some might look up to. Some guys who aren't getting jack are really pushing the boat out and improving their lives overall, and showing balls of steel in the process. To me, that is what should be endorsed, not locking up insecurities and bad habits and going for a one dimensional easy option.

Really disappointed in what I've just read.

TheBeardedLady

Classicporter wrote: »

You can learn more about women by going out and meeting more women, flirting with them, having one night stands, having casual/open relationships etc. Through experience you can become better at attracting women and learn more about women in general.

I never said you can go out tomorrow and find the woman you want to settle down with. My point was when you build up your ability to attract women in general it gives you more options. Therefore you have a greater chance of being able to choose a woman that would be best for you or close to the best fit for you if you choose to settle down. Also, you have the option of never settling down.

Okay I get that but do you think that's good advice for someone like the OP? Simply go out and flirt and have one night stands?

To me it'd make a lot more sense to get to know women day-to-day to get over any initial fear (because it is fear) of us.

Classicporter

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Okay I get that but do you think that's good advice for someone like the OP? Simply go out and flirt and have one night stands?

To me it'd make a lot more sense to get to know women day-to-day to get over any initial fear (because it is fear) of us.

I think the OP should be trying to meet women in a variety of settings, I see no reason why one night stands shouldn't be one of those. In my opinion the absolute worst thing he could do now is get into a serious relationship. It's a recipe for disaster mid to long term in my opinion. You can get to day to day and on a night out or chatting up during the day. It's not one or the other, I never said don't meet women during the day or don'thave female friends, it is something I would strongly advise the OP to do.

beks101

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

To me it'd make a lot more sense to get to know women day-to-day to get over any initial fear (because it is fear) of us.

Yeah just this.

A complete lack of experience with women can hinder a general understanding that we are not 'wimmenz' with a hive mind, who all want the same thing, who all experience the same emotions, who are all out to publicly humiliate the men we are not attracted to, whose worth can all be measured by our physical attractiveness and that of which can be measured on a sliding scale ('she's definitely an 8 or a 9'), who all require the same magic recipe in order to be 'pulled' etc etc etc ad nauseam.

It's just accountable for so much. 'Nice guy' syndrome, 'all Irish women are b1tches', 'she's out of my league', 'all women want bad boys'.

And when I say lack of experience, I don't mean someone who hasn't had a string of one night stands or any long term relationships. I mean someone who has little to no women in his life. No female friends or close female relatives who form part of their social experience, maybe went to an all-male school, works in a male-dominated environment and never learned to mix.

It's very hard to keep up these mad and entirely inaccurate notions about women when you're surrounded by great females who you can laugh with and joke with and talk shyte with and confide in and share life experiences with.

I see it even with my own male mates - there's no separation in their own heads when it comes to the sexes, no 'women on one side of the hall, men on the other'. They'll walk into a room and talk to whichever interesting person crosses their path, not the 'hot girl' because they're after a shag and no complete avoidance of her either out of pure, unadulterated fear. She's just another person and if she's an idiot fcuk it, they won't even bother.

To a lad who has had no 'success' with women, that can appear to be some gift of god-like confidence that he's been bestowed with, but in reality it's just social conditioning. He's not daunted, scared, overwhelmed, fearful or intimidated by women because he's learned that they are HUMAN.

[Deleted User]

Classicporter wrote: »

I think the OP should be trying to meet women in a variety of settings, I see no reason why one night stands shouldn't be one of those. In my opinion the absolute worst thing he could do now is get into a serious relationship. It's a recipe for disaster mid to long term in my opinion.

I can't say for the OP but the couple of times that I had one night stands, I felt filthy after it. It's definitely not for everyone.

Classicporter

Karsini wrote: »

I can't say for the OP but the couple of times that I had one night stands, I felt filthy after it. It's definitely not for everyone.

I think the OP should find out for himself if he likes one night stands or not, if he doesn't then I'd suggest he tries to have more casual non exclusive relationships in the beginning.

TheBeardedLady

Classicporter wrote: »

I think the OP should be trying to meet women in a variety of settings, I see no reason why one night stands shouldn't be one of those. In my opinion the absolute worst thing he could do now is get into a serious relationship. It's a recipe for disaster mid to long term in my opinion. You can get to day to day and on a night out or chatting up during the day. It's not one or the other, I never said don't meet women during the day or don'thave female friends, it is something I would strongly advise the OP to do.

My point is, you can't simply tell someone to go out and sleep with loads of women with they can't even relate to a woman in the cold light of day. There's a little more to it than simply going out, finding a woman and sleeping with her and making it sound so easy is setting him up for disaster. Many men struggle with that or buy into the whole PUA nonsense because they can't relate to women normally. I believe friendships and day-to-day interactions will help to overcome the initial fear. I believe that should be his first step and everything else will be more likely to follow.

TheBeardedLady

Classicporter wrote: »

I think the OP should find out for himself if he likes one night stands or not, if he doesn't then I'd suggest he tries to have more casual non exclusive relationships in the beginning.

Again, how would he go about that? "I suggest you climb Mount Everest to get fit. " There's a few steps missing there, don't you think?

Classicporter

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Again, how would he go about that? "I suggest you climb Mount Everest to get fit. " There's a few steps missing there, don't you think?

He should go out and meet lots of women, flirt with lots of women, build his social circle and get female friends, befriend men who are really good with women. All I said was he should do those things before he settles down into a serious relationship, I didn't say there wouldn't be a learning curve involved to get to the point where he can have casual sex with women he finds attractive.

Wibbs

Pug160 wrote: »

Wibbs, the last thing he needs is to be mollycoddled - going by what I've read.

That was precisely my point. We had an attack of the online Freuds on his posts, describing his situation as "heartbreaking" and "screaming of insecurity" and I responded to that. As I said he's meeting women and getting dates. Sure there is always room for improvement with anyone(and I think EH is a young enough lad so plenty of time for that), but I stand by my take that he's so far ahead of many of the men on this thread who aren't getting any female interaction at all.

If he's meeting girls then yeah, he's doing alright in that regard, but to suggest that getting laid in itself will make a man happier than becoming a better person is both wrong and irresponsible,

I didn't suggest that. Where did I say that?

Some guys who aren't getting jack are really pushing the boat out and improving their lives overall, and showing balls of steel in the process. To me, that is what should be endorsed,

Which I have done throughout the thread.

TheBeardedLady

Classicporter wrote: »

He should go out and meet lots of women, flirt with lots of women, build his social circle and get female friends, befriend men who are really good with women. All I said was he should do those things before he settles down into a serious relationship, I didn't say there wouldn't be a learning curve involved to get to the point where he can have casual sex with women he finds attractive.

I'm responding to your original advice which was simply, "Sleep with lots of women". I agree with everything you've said above.

Potatoeman

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Well from what I've read on the online dating forum, there are serial daters who go on multiple dates. God I wish I had that many choices. But yeah a lot of people would see that as a no no I suppose.

I completely agree with your last sentence. I find the options are extremely limited here compared to Canada/U.S. Yeah people seem to be fairly divided on whether or not they like been approached outside of the pub environment. I actually started a thread about it a couple of years ago: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056632383

That's usually multiple first dates. Over there its acceptable to be dating multiple people until you are exclusive. It would not be acceptable to be dating someone else over here when you have been on a few dates. Over there it's all fair game until you are exclusive.

Daveysil15

Pug160 wrote: »

Oh I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it in itself, but if I went over there without sorting out my problems here first, I just wouldn't get the same sort of satisfaction, as it would still be in the back of my mind that I didn't push myself enough and reach my full potential back here

You may not have any problems though, but it is easy to believe you have. As Classicporter said, it could be the case that you move to a different area where your current abilities are more adequate.

Potatoeman wrote: »

That's usually multiple first dates. Over there its acceptable to be dating multiple people until you are exclusive. It would not be acceptable to be dating someone else over here when you have been on a few dates. Over there it's all fair game until you are exclusive.

I meant online dating in Ireland. There was one woman who said she went on 70+ dates, although I'm not sure if she was been honest with the guys she was meeting.

Hercules99

There's very little practical advice on this thread especially among the recent posts with plenty of know-it-all talk. I've read over it in the hope I might find something of use but it's the usual carry-on with nothing of any substance.

I admit I would be someone very inexperienced with women and have little or no social opportunities to meet new ones, either as potential friends or for potential relationships. My only options are at work, which hasn't ever worked out to-date or to go out on my own on a weekend, have a few drinks and hope to fluke it in a nightclub somewhere (could happen but I don't like the idea of having to drink to meet women and I don't like the idea of going out on my own).