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Is it self defeatist to say that some men are meant to be alone??‏

SharpshooterTom

I'm just beginning to wonder about this because I've recently turned 28 (so I'm not exactly a kid anymore) and I've never been in a relationship, never kissed a girl, and and yes not surprisingly I'm still a virgin LOL. And whats more depressing is that I've never been remotely close in actually having any of those experiences!

If I am being hoenst I've been plagued with all sorts of social problems throughout my teenage years and adult life, social anxiety (putting people off me as if I smell of B.O.) which lead to me socially avoiding people (I felt I was so unappealing to people I felt I had no choice) and so a viscous cycle had then ensured. This continued throughout school and university to the point where I snapped and fell into deep depression and few years back (extremely low self esteem) I attempted suicide.

I got help though with therapy and CBT (I used to post in the depression thread in AH and people there were a great help!), so I'm ok now, I'm improving aspects of my life. But I've still not yet improved aspects of my social life greatly in any real way. Sure I'm not as socially anxious, and certainly not socially avoidant, but I still don't have any real friends. I get the impression I'm just not that appealing as a person and perhaps its the way its meant to be.

I mean in the 40 year old virgin, he at least he had a happy ending, unless I went to an escort, there's every chance I'm probably going to die this way! :eek:

Is it too self defeatist to suggest that some men, whether they like it or not, are destined to be alone for the rest of their lives? Is it too unrealistic for some us to contemplate a relationship?

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random1337

Mike747 wrote: »

You have the exact mindset of the people who post there. That's not to say everything you've written is false.

It may be a bit extreme, but if you have a face like mine and have been in my shoes for a while you would know that this is in fact a reality for a lot of young men nowadays. Never-ending loneliness.

Mike747

random1337 wrote: »

It may be a bit extreme, but if you have a face like mine and have been in my shoes for a while you would know that this is in fact a reality for a lot of young men nowadays. Never-ending loneliness.

I actually agree with a lot of what you say and you will of course get huge flak for what you've written.

Looks are very important. Anyone saying otherwise, especially a woman, is fooling no one. But looks themselves are not enough. Confidence and charm are just as important.

random1337

Mike747 wrote: »

I actually agree with a lot of what you say and you will of course get huge flak for what you've written.

Looks are very important. Anyone saying otherwise, especially a woman, is fooling no one. But looks themselves are not enough. Confidence and charm are just as important.

I think it's more like this: Confidence & charm only matter once you meet her looks threshold.

I get straight up ignored if I have "the indecency" to initiate a conversation with a woman who is repulsed by me.
I see a few of my handsome friends shifting girls without speaking a word and then I get called a maniac/bigot for saying girls are just as shallow as men but lie about it?

Mike747

random1337 wrote: »

I think it's more like this: Confidence & charm only matter once you meet her looks threshold.

I get straight up ignored if I have "the indecency" to initiate a conversation with a woman who is repulsed by me.
I see a few of my handsome friends shifting girls without speaking a word and then I get called a maniac/bigot for saying girls are just as shallow as men but lie about it?

Just b urself bro.

Seriously though, women can be very shallow, lets not pretend otherwise.

Prepare for an avalanche of accusations of misogyny.

Wibbs

Mike747 wrote: »

Looks are very important. Anyone saying otherwise, especially a woman, is fooling no one. But looks themselves are not enough. Confidence and charm are just as important.

Aye(and I'd add social status), but there does come a point where all the confidence and charm in the world is only get you so far if you're not exactly blessed with the looks, especially for guys of say 20. Quasimodo will have to be one charming mofo to make up for it. Though again I'd say social status makes up a lot of ground. Then again that can be chicken or egg time too. IE tall goodlooking or attractive enough men are more likely to gather confidence and social status to them than short not so attractive men.

As for this?

random1337 wrote:

FEMALES can only have limited amount of offspring so they need the mate with the best GENES. So in their 20s all they want is that 6foot+ handsome asshole do ravage them. Once they hit 30 they need that guy who they ignored in their 20s to support them because he is making bank and can financially and emotionally support her and her kids.

I know this is a huge meme among the redpill and PUA culture, but honestly R, having gone through my 20's and 30's and now in my 40's I very rarely saw examples of this. The women who were going out with tall goodlooking men at 25 weren't magically going out with short ugly guys at 35. What few examples I did see were women you would not really want to get involved with anyway. Narcissistic drama queens.

Maybe this is more an American cultural thing? That culture has few safety nets. If you fall you're kinda boned and it's easy to end up on food stamps. In such a culture it would make good bloody sense for women to settle down with a guy who can support her during pregnancy and childrearing. With the much larger social support you find in a culture like Ireland that's much less the case. I dunno, but I suspect this is a large part of it. Ditto for men getting raped in US divorce courts etc. I reckon if I was an American bloke no way would I get hitched and would be very careful in the whole dating arena. I'd more likely just screw and run TBH. It would be safer. On the east and west coasts anyway, the US heartland is almost a different country. Divorce rates are significantly lower for a start.

random1337

Mike747 wrote: »

Just b urself bro.

Seriously though, women can be very shallow, lets not pretend otherwise.

Prepare for an avalanche of accusations of misogyny.

I am myself the whole time and will never change it. I'm just a realist and have accepted my fate. I'm not supposed to breed.
People on here may try to convince me that I'm not ugly or whatever but I indeed am and hear it from people every now and again even though they are 'just joking'. I'm the guy everyone tries to sneak a second glance at when passing down the street LOL. I'm trying to become asexual even though it's tough to deny primal instincts.
I am making lots of new hobbies/learning new instruments etc to keep my mind occupied and I'm starting to become content (serious)

Piliger

random1337 wrote: »

This picture says it all really at the attitudes in this thread. I'm just going to assume OP isn't good looking.
https: //www .tickld.com/cdn_image_content/12054.jpg

Lol you guys realise the media LIES to men telling them that personality/confidence is what attracts women? Or that you will eventually find your soul-mate in your 30s? (i.e. once your future wife is tired of getting pumped and dumped by studs and needs to settle down). It gives sub-par men HOPE and keeps them going. So they keep working and paying taxes to keep the elite RICH.
Women are the CHOOSERS, dont believe anything they say about how they dont care about looks; its all they care about. It's biology. Men want to spread their seed as much as they can so they will fukk anything, lower their standards when drunk etc. FEMALES can only have limited amount of offspring so they need the mate with the best GENES. So in their 20s all they want is that 6foot+ handsome asshole to ravage them. Once they hit 30 they need that guy who they ignored in their 20s to support them because he is making bank and can financially and emotionally support her and her kids. These types of women (70%) cheat on their husbands because they are not attracted to them.

This is wholly and comprehensively untrue and smacks of anger more than experience.

random1337

Wibbs wrote: »

As for this?
I know this is a huge meme among the redpill and PUA culture, but honestly R, having gone through my 20's and 30's and now in my 40's I very rarely saw examples of this. The women who were going out with tall goodlooking men at 25 weren't magically going out with short ugly guys at 35. What few examples I did see were women you would not really want to get involved with anyway. Narcissistic drama queens.

Maybe this is more an American cultural thing? That culture has few safety nets. If you fall you're kinda boned and it's easy to end up on food stamps. In such a culture it would make good bloody sense for women to settle down with a guy who can support her during pregnancy and childrearing. With the much larger social support you find in a culture like Ireland that's much less the case. I dunno, but I suspect this is a large part of it. Ditto for men getting raped in US divorce courts etc. I reckon if I was an American bloke no way would I get hitched and would be very careful in the whole dating arena. I'd more likely just screw and run TBH. It would be safer. On the east and west coasts anyway, the US heartland is almost a different country. Divorce rates are significantly lower for a start.

All I see when I go out is the good looking guys with a girl at their side by the end of the night. Myself and many others are left 'chatting' outside the chipper waiting for taxi cabs. But in my local area I see unattractive men married in their 30s but they are some of the most miserable/depressed looking people I've ever seen. Probably settled for the first and only women who gave them the time of day. They've been denied a life of pleasure and fun because of their GENES. And girls dont have this problem - any ugly girl can go to a club and there will always be some sap horny enough to bang her.

beano345

random1337 wrote: »

All I see when I go out is the good looking guys with a girl at their side by the end of the night. Myself and many others are left 'chatting' outside the chipper waiting for taxi cabs. But in my local area I see unattractive men married in their 30s but they are some of the most miserable/depressed looking people I've ever seen. Probably settled for the first and only women who gave them the time of day. They've been denied a life of pleasure and fun because of their GENES. And girls dont have this problem - any ugly girl can go to a club and there will always be some sap horny enough to bang her.

You should have been around for the red pill thread yesterday in ah

random1337

Piliger wrote: »

This is wholly and comprehensively untrue and smacks of anger more than experience.

Whatever, good looking men become confident because they've been treated well their whole lives. One can't just become confident, you can only do so from past experiences reaffirming yourself as an attractive individual. Am I supposed to gain confidence from getting ignored/laughed at on the regular from girls I try to talk to?
Confidence then by logic = looks.

You are probably good looking and haven't experienced what others have. Next time you walk through a busy area in Dublin or whatever and pick out the ugliest looking fukk you pass. Think to yourself is any woman gonna actaully find that attractive even if he's "funny" or talented".
Please...

random1337

beano345 wrote: »

You should have been around for the red pill thread yesterday in ah

Link or has it been deleted?

Mike747

Wibbs wrote: »

Aye(and I'd add social status), but there does come a point where all the confidence and charm in the world is only get you so far if you're not exactly blessed with the looks, especially for guys of say 20. Quasimodo will have to be one charming mofo to make up for it. Though again I'd say social status makes up a lot of ground. Then again that can be chicken or egg time too. IE tall goodlooking or attractive enough men are more likely to gather confidence and social status to them than short not so attractive men.

Yeah social status for sure. But I would say its important to remember there are different types of status. If you want the party girl type you better have a bmw and a rolex. On the other hand, the cute busker will be far more impressed by your tales of back packing across Europe.

No matter what though, you want to be, or a least perceived to be, an out going sociable guy.

beano345

random1337 wrote: »

Link or has it been deleted?

It was locked fairly rapid

random1337

beano345 wrote: »

It was locked fairly rapid

Typical, stuff like that can never be discussed on a forum like this.
Women are always the victims and little angels after all...

Piliger

random1337 wrote: »

Whatever, good looking men become confident because they've been treated well their whole lives. One can't just become confident, you can only do so from past experiences reaffirming yourself as an attractive individual. Am I supposed to gain confidence from getting ignored/laughed at on the regular from girls I try to talk to?
Confidence then by logic = looks.

You are probably good looking and haven't experienced what others have. Next time you walk through a busy area in Dublin or whatever and pick out the ugliest looking fukk you pass. Think to yourself is any woman gonna actaully find that attractive even if he's "funny" or talented".
Please...

Again more anger. It's dripping from every post. And the truth of the matter is that women can smell that anger a mile away, as can men.
I have had friends and acquaintances of all kinds of looks date and marry stunning women. I had several friends when we were in our twenties who were not only not good lucking, but quite the opposite, pull some of the most gorgeous girls in the social group and go on to marry them.
I have seen it dozens of times. And when I go to business dinners and association dinners the trend continues and has done for the 40 years that I have been an adult.
Your angry assertions are simply not true in any way shape or form. It is just an excuse used by guys who get frustrated that they can't get the girl they want; frustration that some pretty girl behaved badly to him and the result is a bruised ego that, yes, can take a long time to recover. I've seen it all mate. And not only have I seen it .. I'll give you a bit of free advice. If you don't get a grip on the resentment and anger then the topic of this thread will become more and more appropriate.
When we blame others for not being attracted to us - the reason for it is to be found in the mirror.

random1337

Piliger wrote: »

Again more anger. It's dripping from every post. And the truth of the matter is that women can smell that anger a mile away, as can men.
I have had friends and acquaintances of all kinds of looks date and marry stunning women. I had several friends when we were in our twenties who were not only not good lucking, but quite the opposite, pull some of the most gorgeous girls in the social group and go on to marry them.
I have seen it dozens of times. And when I go to business dinners and association dinners the trend continues and has done for the 40 years that I have been an adult.
Your angry assertions are simply not true in any way shape or form. It is just an excuse used by guys who get frustrated that they can't get the girl they want; frustration that some pretty girl behaved badly to him and the result is a bruised ego that, yes, can take a long time to recover. I've seen it all mate. And not only have I seen it .. I'll give you a bit of free advice. If you don't get a grip on the resentment and anger then the topic of this thread will become more and more appropriate.
When we blame others for not being attracted to us - the reason for it is to be found in the mirror.

So when I was a kid, who was completley innocent about everything and one day minding my own business I got called a deformed creep by a group of girls because they 'smelled' my anger? I thought nothing of it at first as I was unaware of my perceived ugliness but it continued throughout the end of primary school into secondary school. So I guess as you say it must be this 6th sense of 'anger indicators' girls have.
Retard, you can't accept that there are men like me out there who no girl will ever find attractive. And girls in groups suffer heavily from group mentality and can be very cruel.
Just because it hasn't happened to you it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

And btw these friends of yours are probably just average lookers, not hideous like myself. Also probably in good jobs and making decent money - which women also want.

drumswan

Piliger wrote: »

I have had friends and acquaintances of all kinds of looks date and marry stunning women. I had several friends when we were in our twenties who were not only not good lucking, but quite the opposite, pull some of the most gorgeous girls in the social group and go on to marry them.
I have seen it dozens of times.

I dont really believe you. Stunning looking women have the pick of all men, they very rarely choose ugly men. Why would they?

Extremely attractive men dont date ugly women either. Thats life.

random1337

drumswan wrote: »

I dont really believe you. Stunning looking women have the pick of all men, they very rarely choose ugly men. Why would they?

this, piliger you are blue-pilled as fukk and most likely lying out of your ass.
Get out of here with your feminist liberal hippy bullsh!t.

beano345

random1337 wrote: »

Typical, stuff like that can never be discussed on a forum like this.
Women are always the victims and little angels after all...

Meh i take it with a dose of salt ever since i stumbled across the manosphere many moons ago,I actually thought it would have instigated a good debate,if you strip and cut through some of the madness there is some grains of truth in it.

random1337

beano345 wrote: »

Meh i take it with a dose of salt ever since i stumbled across the manosphere many moons ago,I actually thought it would have instigated a good debate,if you strip and cut through some of the madness there is some grains of truth in it.

Of course there is truth to it. Biologically women have to be the choosers in all animals. It's just annoying that the media and women themselves push the 'personality matters' card so hard and lie about sexual preference.

The madness arises from the males at the bottom end of the spectrum who are genetic garbage yet intelligent enough to know how badly they've been lied to and how much they are missing out on life. There is a lot of pain and hurt from these online posters like myself who may seem like lunatics to the general population. I think good looking people or even average looking people find it hard to believe people can be so cruel to those less fortunate because they have never experienced it themselves.

ancapailldorcha

drumswan wrote: »

I dont really believe you. Stunning looking women have the pick of all men, they very rarely choose ugly men. Why would they?

Extremely attractive men dont date ugly women either. Thats life.

Maybe they're very nice, intellectually stimulating, funny, etc... Why does anyone choose to enter a relationship with anyone else? There's obviously a connection.

random1337 wrote: »

this, piliger you are blue-pilled as fukk and most likely lying out of your ass.
Get out of here with you feminist liberal hippy bullsh!t.

This is just unnecessary and adds nothing to the discussion.

drumswan

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Maybe they're very nice, intellectually stimulating, funny, etc... Why does anyone choose to enter a relationship with anyone else? There's obviously a connection.

There are nice, intellectually stimulating and funny good-looking people too. Initial attraction is based on looks.

Perhaps someone can list some very attractive people with ugly partners?

Wibbs

random1337 wrote: »

All I see when I go out is the good looking guys with a girl at their side by the end of the night.

Well naturay good looking blokes are generally going to get more women, just as good looking women are more likely to get more men. Nature of life really.

in my local area I see unattractive men married in their 30s but they are some of the most miserable/depressed looking people I've ever seen. Probably settled for the first and only women who gave them the time of day.

That can happen alright. I've certainly seen that with inexperienced men.

They've been denied a life of pleasure and fun because of their GENES.

Rule one; don't wear Wranglers.

And girls dont have this problem - any ugly girl can go to a club and there will always be some sap horny enough to bang her.

Yea and no. I've known quite a few women of varying levels of looks go quite a while without male attention, beyond the dribbling monged on drink morons chancing their arm just before the lights go up. Indeed really good looking women can have it crazily hard. Most guys won't go near them unless they're bladdered, or they're tossers that no woman would find attractive.

random1337 wrote: »

Women are always the victims and little angels after all...

The problem is lumping all women as somehow a mathematical constant. Women vary a lot. Just like men. I'm sure you know men you think are tossers and have nothing in common with you or your mates and vice versa? See? Men aint the same and neither are women. There is far more crossover than there is difference.

random1337 wrote: »

this, piliger you are blue-pilled as fukk and most likely lying out of your ass.
Get out of here with you feminist liberal hippy bullsh!t.

Jayzuz Ted. Don't blow a gasket man. It'll do you no good in the long run. It really won't. Pilger is dead right about people, especially women picking up on anger. Just as they may pick up on frustration. Those two things give off a scent, that is like a lynx add run backwards. Won't do you any good man. Seriously. I can understand your frustration. That's completely understandable. However try to consider that your worldview based off a few experiences is colouring how you percieve your world. Confirmation bias and all that. If you think the world is full of bitches, it will be. Look there are bitches in the world and dickheads with it, so if you set your inner filter to Bitch that's all you'll see and you will miss out on all the women who aren't bitches. It won't be easy to reprogramme that crap as like you said your experiences have been negative, but it's well doable.

First off forget nightclubs. Waste of time. They're heavily biased in favour of looks and social group connections. Internet dating is biased in favour of looks too and it also tends to be a sausage fest. Other social activities where drin and the dark aint involved are a better bet. If you're in university some of the clubs for example.

Sauve

Mod

Random1337 will be taking a few days break from the forum, please do not respond to his posts.
Thanks.

Dial Hard

drumswan wrote: »

There are nice, intellectually stimulating and funny good-looking people too. Initial attraction is based on looks.

Perhaps someone can list some very attractive people with ugly partners?

My sister. She's an absolute belter and is madly in love with a guy who is very little to look at.

I went out with a borderline-morbidly obese guy for almost three years. The irony now is that his personality was shit; he was a manipulative, controlling asshole but at the time, I thought he was Adonis. And, weirdly, I thought I was the one getting the better end of the deal at the time, despite being 16 to his 22 (when we met) and probably in the shape of my life due to the fact that I was dancing practically full-time. So, despite the rambling of some very, very angry contributors to this thread, there really is no legislating for chemistry & personality when it comes to relationships.

Wibbs

+1 I have no problem admitting that I have consistently dated "up" all my life. It was a rare event where I was the better looking out on a date and never in a relationship. To the point in a couple of examples other people didn't quite believe we were a couple.

Bafucin

Wibbs wrote: »

+1 I have no problem admitting that I have consistently dated "up" all my life. It was a rare event where I was the better looking out on a date and never in a relationship. To the point in a couple of examples other people didn't quite believe we were a couple.

High five to those of us who date up!

Bafucin

Dial Hard wrote: »

My sister. She's an absolutel belter and is madly in love with a guy who is very little to look at.

I went out with a borderline-morbidly obese guy for almost three years. The irony now is that his personality was shit; he was a manipulative, controlling asshole but at the time, I thought he was Adonis. And, weirdly, I thought I was the one getting the better end of the deal at the time, despite being 16 to his 22 (when we met) and probably in the shape of my life due to the fact that I was dancing practically full-time. So, despite the rambling of some very, very angry contributors to this thread, there really is no legislating for chemistry & personality when it comes to relationships.

Question ...why did you leave him?

Was it looks or because he was treating you badly?

Piliger

Dial Hard wrote: »

My sister. She's an absolutel belter and is madly in love with a guy who is very little to look at.

I went out with a borderline-morbidly obese guy for almost three years. The irony now is that his personality was shit; he was a manipulative, controlling asshole but at the time, I thought he was Adonis. And, weirdly, I thought I was the one getting the better end of the deal at the time, despite being 16 to his 22 (when we met) and probably in the shape of my life due to the fact that I was dancing practically full-time. So, despite the rambling of some very, very angry contributors to this thread, there really is no legislating for chemistry & personality when it comes to relationships.

Exactly. Unfortunately there is a lot of pain involved in the dating game. We shouldn't even call it a game - it's more like an assault course.
And that pain is often difficult to take and difficult to deal with. Some learn and cope and move forward. Some internalise. Some lash out. I've seen the whole gamut, and I've felt the pain, as almost all of us have.
Sadly some suffer more than others and find it difficult to see past their own experience. I am reminded of a wedding I was at about three months ago and the guy was a young fella that I got to know through a business I use to consult for. He is as plain as the back of a bus and hugely overweight. I'm not going to say he was ugly, because there are extremely few really ugly people, no matter what anyone says.
The thing is, this guy has pulled stunners for the five years I have known him ! Why ? Because he makes girls laugh, says nice things to them, gets them flowers and gives them confidence. He is a chick magnet. And he is not alone. Again I have seen it so many times.
One of my best friends is about three years younger than me (50+) and I've known him since we were 15. He is one of the best looking guys you would meet. But he is from a broken home and has always had terrible confidence. He attracts looks from women wherever I have gone with him, but they don't hit on him and he doesn't have the confidence to approach them. He was married for five years but has now been single for 20 years. I've talked with him for hours and hours on many many occasions. But some things can't be fixed.

The trouble is, it's virtually impossible to explain these things to young guys who have been at a wrong end of one or two bad experiences. Women can hurt guys deeply without meaning to. In their desperation they look for somewhere to cast the blame. Sometimes it's money and sometimes it's their looks. And yes sometimes it was a complete bit¢h. They do exist. But they are few and far between imho.

drumswan

Piliger wrote: »

The thing is, this guy has pulled stunners for the five years I have known him ! Why ? Because he makes girls laugh, says nice things to them, gets them flowers and gives them confidence. He is a chick magnet. And he is not alone. Again I have seen it so many times.

I dont know a single overweight unattractive person who pulls "stunners".

People who let themselves go like that seldom have the confidence to be such a personality that they can overcome human biology in the opposite sex. You really are exaggerating now. Or else you have very different standards in what you consider "stunning" attractiveness.

There is probably someone for almost everyone out there and people lose their looks eventually anyway, but lets not pretend that anyone can hook up with anyone at will, this is real life not dreamland where everyone is special.

Check out the Matching Hypothesis, which suggests that people are more likely to form successful relationships with and express liking for people whose level of physical attractiveness roughly equals their own.