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Are people who smoke weak-minded?

wretcheddomain

I firmly believe only sensible people would answer this question in the affirmative.

Let's take a look at the evidence.

They probably succumbed to smoking or continue to smoke for one of three main reasons:

Peer pressure
Lack of willpower to refuse/give them up
Psychological crutch

Therefore, smoking is premised on being weak and defective in some way. This is despite the fact smokers know they'll smell putrid and noxious around others, but they're willing to sacrifice this self-respect to maintain their habit for one (or all) of the reasons listed above.

Evidently, this will be considered an offensive analysis of their addiction, but while they may be offended, this does not make a good argument against this position. Seated in evidence as my post is, shouldn't we just accept it boils down to being weaker in mind than those who a) can cope with problems without psychological crutches and b) are strong enough to refuse them when offered.

In addition, there's a reason why some people give them up and some don't. Blaming it as an "addiction" appears, to me at least, to be a cop out.

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Shakespeare's Sister

Have you never ever rented, Stinicker? Easy to say you'll never rent if very young.

What if you need to move away? I understand people preferring to own their own place, but never ever renting seems unrealistic.

marienbad

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Whats that got to do with the price of milk?

He'll be out debt free shortly instead of a 25-30 year loan hanging over him. I'd take that option any day than being forced to rent like I am.

Just curious as to how he is managing it as he doesn't own and doesn't pay rent , nice to let us all in on the secret .

Greenmachine

Some of the greatest intellectual are smoker. Hole in your story there.

Donkey Oaty

marienbad wrote: »

Just curious as to how he is managing it as he doesn't own and doesn't pay rent , nice to let us all in on the secret .

Maybe he is a squatter.

kneemos

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

So op,
Smokers are weak minded. Hmm... Can't help but think you are bigging yourself up since you clearly do not smoke.

Can't see the point either other than he wants people to agree with him.
Everyone has flaws of some sort,even the OP.

wiseoldelf34

smoking rocks.I'm never going to stop.
my plan is to die before I end up in a home sh*****g in my pants and forgetting who my kids are

marienbad

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Maybe he is a squatter.

Or a tree house in Mammy's garden

MRnotlob606

I don't smoke but I must be weak minded also, I eat lots of junk food.

CaptainInsano

Greenmachine wrote: »

Some of the greatest intellectual are smoker. Hole in your story there.

You're missing the point. No one said smokers can't be creative, intelligent or hugely inspirational people.

kneemos

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

I don't smoke but I must be weak minded also, I eat lots of junk food.

Your mind needs a gym membership.

RayM

wiseoldelf34 wrote: »

smoking rocks.I'm never going to stop.
my plan is to die before I end up in a home sh*****g in my pants and forgetting who my kids are

I've never heard of a person in the late stages of a smoking-related illness expressing relief that they aren't going to get old.

Anyway, the symptoms of metastatic lung cancer can be frighteningly similar to old age and dementia. If you end up with lung cancer, there's every chance that you'll end up doubly incontinent and not able to recognise your own kids.

The Peanut

wretcheddomain wrote: »

You can still be strong-minded with many aspects of your life but still remain weak-minded when it comes to social pressures. Thus, the constant references to US Presidents and Celebrities just don't cut it. Moreover, I'd refrain from believing you understand the mind of a celebrity/president merely based on what you see on TV/Interviews - often the latter are just as much performances as anything else.

Roosevelt and Churchill don't do many interviews these days so I've decided to perceive them as history has; strong-minded and decisive.

Are you stating that no matter how successful, focused and independent any individual is in his/her career; they are weak-minded if they smoke? There is an element of truth in that some smokers are weak-minded. Some people who gamble are weak- minded. Some people who drink are weak-minded. Some people are weak-minded. Some people smoke. Not all smokers are weak-minded.

conorh91

smash wrote: »

Just because someone doesn't want to give them up it doesn't mean they're weak minded. It just means they don't want to give them up!

Then they're not weak, just completely stupid.

who the fug

How did the Puritanism become the norm, you don't a refund for returning a perfect body.

RayM

who the fug wrote: »

How did the Puritanism become the norm, you don't a refund for returning a perfect body.

No, but at least your family are less likely to have to watch you die a horrible premature death.

Czarcasm

wretcheddomain wrote: »

I firmly believe only sensible people would answer this question in the affirmative.

Let's take a look at the evidence.

There's not much point in wasting time refuting your assertion when it looks like your minds already made up.

I would indeed be weak minded and stupid to think I would be successful in convincing you otherwise.

Warper

You left out cool

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

wretcheddomain wrote: »

No. I said that they're willing to succumb to a habit in full knowledge of the consequences (both health and olfactory-wise), whereas most people do not. I think it comes down to a matter of being weak minded in a significant way.

You can't compare teenagers either, as most teenagers decide against taking the habit up.

When I began smoking in 1962 it was not considered harmful. As for being weak minded; I find that quite offensive. I enjoy smoking my 6 or 7 cigarettes each day. I do not want to give them up. You might as well say people who drink alcohol are weak minded. I can only hope you just used an incorrect term, as I do not possess a weak sense of self-will, judgement or conviction.

who the fug

RayM wrote: »

No, but at least your family are less likely to have to watch you die a horrible premature death.

Given that my brother the smoker lived longer than the mother the non smoker your argument is weak

wretcheddomain

Czarcasm wrote: »

There's not much point in wasting time refuting your assertion when it looks like your minds already made up.

I would indeed be weak minded and stupid to think I would be successful in convincing you otherwise.

I didn't ask you to refute my assertion though, indeed, it's probably indubitably true.

I'm trying to convince others, an entirely different enterprise.

who the fug wrote: »

Given that my brother the smoker lived longer than the mother the non smoker your argument is weak

Your argument is fallacious.

Your sample size is stupendously small. Extrapolate it out by the tens of millions and you'll find your brother is in a very lonely category.

Czarcasm

Van Tender Wallflower wrote: »

When I began smoking in 1962 it was not considered harmful. As for being weak minded; I find that quite offensive. I enjoy smoking my 6 or 7 cigarettes each day. I do not want to give them up. You might as well say people who drink alcohol are weak minded. I can only hope you just used an incorrect term, as I do not possess a weak sense of self-will, judgement or conviction.

This about sums it up really. The opening post could just as easily have read "Are people who feel a need to feel superior in some way to other people, weak minded or stupid people?"

There's buckets of evidence to support that hypothesis.

bb1234567

The Cunning Linguist wrote: »

No they're not weak minded. So what if they smell, chewing gum and a quick spray will sort it.

Life's short, smoking is pleasurable. You don't have to justify it.

Life will be a lot less short if you dont

bb1234567

Peer pressure? I dont think anyone thinks smoking is cool anymore

Rothmans

Stinicker wrote: »

What an absolute waste of money, 20 cigs a day is around €70 a week, now for a couple, husband/wife who smokes this is €140 a week and that is a mortgage payment right there.

Smokers are irrational and it is just plain stupid.

4 things I will never waste money on.

1). Rent, I will never piss hard money away on something I will never own.
2). Cigarettes, its burning money, stinks up everything and shortens your life.
3). Alcohol, again wasted money, shortens your life and makes you fat. I have enough social skills to enjoy myself without this scourge of Irish society.
4). Interest repayments, I won't make banks rich, I'm saving for a house and am over 70% of the ways there. If I want something I'll save for it and I won't borrow to make hedge funds and wall street bankers rich.

Where are you living at the moment that's rent-free, and allowed you save up 70% of a house price? You can hardly blame people for not living with their parents until they're 50!

Czarcasm

wretcheddomain wrote: »

I didn't ask you to refute my assertion though, indeed, it's probably indubitably true.

I'm trying to convince others, an entirely different enterprise.

Well as I'm a smoker, and I neither consider myself weak minded nor stupid (nor weak willed, I can choose not to smoke again if I didn't want to), I consider your assertion false, and your "evidence" is poor because it is based more on your own subjective negative perception of people who choose to smoke.

Your argument is fallacious.

Your sample size is stupendously small. Extrapolate it out by the tens of millions and you'll find your brother is in a very lonely category.

How big is your sample size exactly?

wretcheddomain

Van Tender Wallflower wrote: »

When I began smoking in 1962 it was not considered harmful. As for being weak minded; I find that quite offensive. I enjoy smoking my 6 or 7 cigarettes each day. I do not want to give them up. You might as well say people who drink alcohol are weak minded. I can only hope you just used an incorrect term, as I do not possess a weak sense of self-will, judgement or conviction.

I'm afraid to say it looks as if you do possess a weak sense of self-will, judgement or conviction. Whether you find it offensive is neither here nor there - we have to deal with substantive points and not emotional distractions.

Again, you fallaciously brought up alcohol - when we all know only a small minority of people succumb to an addiction worth the name. The fact you happily and openly concede you don't want to give them up in light of the overburdening weight of evidence suggests you're in denial about their effects. One can only draw the conclusion you lack judgement (as the correct judgement is to abstain from their use), as well as the self-will to stop yourself committing this damage.

Shakespeare's Sister

who the fug wrote: »

How did the Puritanism become the norm, you don't a refund for returning a perfect body.

Big difference between having cancer and not having a perfect body.

Van Tender Wallflower wrote: »

When I began smoking in 1962 it was not considered harmful. As for being weak minded; I find that quite offensive. I enjoy smoking my 6 or 7 cigarettes each day. I do not want to give them up. You might as well say people who drink alcohol are weak minded.

No, because alcohol isn't harmful until it's abused. Why do you think you won't be harmed by smoking? (I enjoy a smoke after a few drinks myself but I'm not going to tell myself it isn't harmful, even if I'm not a 20-a-day person).

who the fug wrote: »

Given that my brother the smoker lived longer than the mother the non smoker your argument is weak

How on earth could that one exceptional case make his argument weak?

I think the OP's post is extremely smug and angry, and I don't agree with it overall, but some of the counter arguments are pretty poor too.

kneemos

I maintain the OP's assertion to be wrong on the grounds that many smokers go through the very difficult process of giving up,therefore proving that smokers are indeed strong willed and strong minded.

conorh91

kneemos wrote: »

many smokers go through the very difficult process of giving up,therefore proving that smokers are indeed strong willed and strong minded.

But then they're not smokers...

Stinicker

marienbad wrote: »

So are you living at home in the meantime ?

No I'm living in my grandmothers house, when she died six years ago I took possession, its an old house but in great shape having being renovated shortly before she died, its a bit in the country so I'm saving to buy a newer house and then I can rent my own older house.

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

Have you never ever rented, Stinicker? Easy to say you'll never rent if very young.

What if you need to move away? I understand people preferring to own their own place, but never ever renting seems unrealistic.

I've never rented, I'm in my late twenties and I'll never rent a house, the importance of ownership of land and houses is something ingrained into me since I was a young age.

I hate smoking as my mothers and grandmothers smoking used to aggravate my childhood asthma. I guess it is from this which stems my real hatred of smoking plus the financial stupidity of it nowadays. On the flip side my grandmothers 40 a day habit sent her to an early grave and gave me a massive boost up the ladder in life.

My own mother was hospitalized on St. Stephens day 2010 and spent the following month is hospital struggling to live thanks to a 40 year 20 - 30 a day smoking habit, 5 independent doctors gave her a stern warning that if she continued to smoke she wouldn't see her 60th birthday. A month in intensive care meant she was isolated from the world and couldn't hardly breathe never mind smoke, when she came out she never again touched a cigarette, she smashed all the ashtrays in the house one day in a fit of rage when she was so exhausted and out of breath whilst hanging out the washing on the clothes line. She thankfully made a great recovery and is less reliant on her inhaler now as her lungs repair and cleanse themselves.

My mothers biggest regret in life she says was ever putting a cigarette into her mouth and she has €17.5k saved since quitting and estimates that she wasted around €200k to €250k inflation adjusted over her lifetime on cigarettes alone.

I also inherited my hatred of alcohol from my parents in that my grandmother was a raging alcoholic but surprisingly it was the cigarettes which killed her afterwards. My 2nd grandmother smoked 60 woodbines and later 60 major when woodbines went off the market, she was a very moderate drinker but it was the drink which led her to trip and have an accident on New Years Eve whilst walking home from the pub and she froze to death of Hypothermia aged 64.

My uncle destroyed his life with alcohol when he drove drunk and killed a pedestrian and almost a second person. She spent six months in Jail and got banned from driving for 20 years. He lost his girlfriend, his successful business and shortly afterwards the sight of one eye and has only 40% vision in the other. He is now in his mid fifties an obese lonely sad figure drawing a blind pension with nothing in his life except Alcohol which despite everything he still drinks himself sober.

My sister is in her thirties, renting €150/week, smoking 30 a day, her boyfriend is an alcoholic, smokes 30 a day himself and both of them will go out every friday and saturday night to the pub and one or two midweek nights too. I reckon between cigarettes, alcohol and drink that they waste over €400 a week which is more than my sisters whole salary as she earns only around €9.50/hour. Her boyfriend despite his alcoholism brings in around the same and its a fair disgrace how they manage their money.

Twice last year and again this year she tried to get my father to buy her a house but I had to intervene and told it straight out in a huge family row that until she appreciates the value of money she won't get a bob from my parents both of whom agree with me and were encouraging me to buy but I refuse to get into debt whilst I have a roof of my own already.

I can understand renting if you need a place and can't get a mortgage or are not stable financially. However anyone who rents, smokes and drinks with a small salary really needs a good hard look at themselves. I know so many people who claim to be broke and they probably are but if they copped on and gave up their addictions they'd have plenty money.