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Apple Protests

House of Blaze

A protest has begun at an Apple store in San Francisco around the issue of 'a growing black and hispanic underclass' of service workers who are being left behind by the big tech companies at the heart of silicon valley.

Arrests have begun as the protest continues.

Some more information here: http://action.seiu.org/page/s/silicon-underclass

and here: http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/08/26/blacks-latinos-dominate-silicon-valleys-invisible-workforce/

Or twitterers search #techcandobetter

I dunno it sounds a bit mad to me. Almost like they think Apple, Google etc. should be hiring service workers for some reason.

They say that 'for every 1 tech worker, 4 service workers are required to support them.' but that they earn less than one fifth the average tech worker wage..

I mean surely having 4 jobs created for every 1 tech job is a good thing?

There's also an element of anger at Apple supposedly (:D) dodging state taxes via tax loopholes which I would say is fair point.

Any thoughts?

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emo72

kneemos wrote: »

Apple aren't employing them,contractors apparently.

contracting seems to be apples way of placing "distance" between themselves and their workers.

House of Blaze

kneemos wrote: »

Apple aren't employing them,contractors apparently.

That's a handy one for apple as it lends an element of 'plausible deniability', but unfortunately makes the protests even less relevant then in my eyes.

Inequality seriously has gone crazy in the last few years though...

I remember reading an article a few years back saying inequality in the US today is as bad as it was in colonial times...

EDIT: here it is http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/09/us-income-inequality-its-worse-today-than-it-was-in-1774/262537/

kneemos

emo72 wrote: »

contracting seems to be apples way of placing "distance" between themselves and their workers.

Easier for a big company to deal with a contractor than dozens or hundreds of workers.

emo72

kneemos wrote: »

Easier for a big company to deal with a contractor than dozens or hundreds of workers.

thats so true:(

Manach

Perhaps this might be related to recent "race consultants" such as Jessie Jackson offering to fix the Silicon valley imbalances based on his years of consulting experience, for a fee. Offhand, from a Slashdot article.

kingtiger

God hates Apple

emo72

kingtiger wrote: »

God hates Apple

haha ,ever since eden, those damn apples.

mad muffin

kingtiger wrote: »

God hates Apple

How can Steve Jobs hate Apple?

House of Blaze

mad muffin wrote: »

How can Steve Jobs hate Apple?

You can't be serious?!

<cringe>

Recondite49

Denny Crane.

mad muffin

House of Blaze wrote: »

You can't be serious?!

<cringe>

As serious as cancer.

emo72

mad muffin wrote: »

As serious as cancer.

when i say rhythm is a dancer?

mad muffin

emo72 wrote: »

when i say rhythm is a dancer?

It's a source companion

Frank Lee Midere

kneemos wrote: »

Apple aren't employing them,contractors apparently.

The protestors are complaining about any poor workers in San franscisco or Silicon Valley. Apple might employ some low paid contract workers as cleaners or security - so probably does your company -- that's not where the 4-1 comes from. There's also a lot of anger from the hipsters in San Francisco, the non techs, as they too can't afford rent.

I think the whole place to survive needs to build higher. It's very low density.

emo72

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmlX3fLQrEc

really interesting movie

House of Blaze

I would be interested how apple and co. respond to this though.

Will it be a typical "hey this is not our problem, take it up with the contractors" or otherwise.

When they started getting flak for the foxconn suicides and so on they only eventually decided to do anything about it (and what they did do wasn't a whole lot in fairness)

Frank Lee Midere

kneemos wrote: »

Apple aren't employing them,contractors apparently.

Which is true of every single company in Ireland too. Obviously cleaners are not going to be full time members of staff. Security is a service. Landscapers and gardeners, that's just a service.

The real employers paying the small wages are the companies contracted to provide these services.

Frank Lee Midere

House of Blaze wrote: »

I would be interested how apple and co. respond to this though.

Will it be a typical "hey this is not our problem, take it up with the contractors" or otherwise.

When they started getting flak for the foxconn suicides and so on they only eventually decided to do anything about it (and what they did do wasn't a whole lot in fairness)

Apple did more than others.

In the US the problem is the legal rights of workers. Were the minimum wage higher then apple, google etc would pay contractors more with very little effect on margins.

House of Blaze

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Apple did more than others.

Maybe so, but they are still the wealthiest company on the face of the planet, and by virtue of their purchasing power alone could effect far more potent changes if they had any desire to, rather than being seen to do something in order to placate consumers in domestic markets.

In the US the problem is the legal rights of workers. Were the minimum wage higher then apple, google etc would pay contractors more with very little effect on margins.

Exactly, you can't exactly blame them for following the letter of the law. In fact as a corporation are they not legally required to put their shareholders interests above any other concerns? That's the real american way!

thebaz

Firstly, i love San Francisco , but similar to Dublin , there is massive gap between those living in the mission, Tenderloin and market street areas and those working Silicon valley - 2 different worlds , similar a little to Dublin docklands- those in cushy Google style jobs & swanky apartments and some who are born & bred in the area and may not have got the education to get those high paying jobs. This usually causes conflict.

Iwasfrozen

thebaz wrote: »

Firstly, i love San Francisco , but similar to Dublin , there is massive gap between those living in the mission, Tenderloin and market street areas and those working Silicon valley - 2 different worlds , similar a little to Dublin docklands- those in cushy Google style jobs & swanky apartments and some who are born & bred in the area and may not have got the education to get those high paying jobs. This usually causes conflict.

Jealousy is a sin.

emo72

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Jealousy is a sin.

Mate. It's true. You're frozen.

Recondite49

The sad part for me is that Apple could add 50 dollars to the price of every product, people would still buy their products and there'd be more than enough to pay a living wage to all employees.

Just a $3 increase could make a living wage...

Frank Lee Midere

House of Blaze wrote: »

Maybe so, but they are still the wealthiest company on the face of the planet, and by virtue of their purchasing power alone could effect far more potent changes if they had any desire to, rather than being seen to do something in order to placate consumers in domestic markets.

Exactly, you can't exactly blame them for following the letter of the law. In fact as a corporation are they not legally required to put their shareholders interests above any other concerns? That's the real american way!

Foxconn workers are living in poorer countries and getting significant wage increases. It's the poor American working class which is getting increasingly screwed.

Recondite49

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Jealousy is a sin.

To quote the great Tony Benn, telling poor people to be thrifty is a little like telling starving people to eat less.

House of Blaze

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Foxconn workers are living in poorer countries and getting significant wage increases. It's the poor American working class which is getting increasingly screwed.

Exactly! So what kind of pressure will they need to be under in order to look at keeping their own house in order?

Iwasfrozen

Recondite49 wrote: »

To quote the great Tony Benn, telling poor people to be thrifty is a little like telling starving people to eat less.

Nah it's different. Starving people don't have food, poor people just don't have any disposable income after paying for their necessities (one of which is food).

If American companies have to start paying 3 dollars more then minimum wage employees the price of their products and services will have to increase to compensate.

[Deleted User]

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

If American companies have to start paying 3 dollars more then minimum wage employees the price of their products and services will have to increase to compensate.

No it does not mean their prices must increase. It can mean their profit decreases, a novel but viable concept. Their enormous profit, gained by the exploitation of labour, ethically and/or otherwise.

The right to a living wage is an indispensable economic and social human right. Otherwise it's wage slavery.

Recondite49

Candie wrote: »

No it does not mean their prices must increase. It can mean their profit decreases, a novel but viable concept. Their enormous profit, gained by the exploitation of labour, ethically and/or otherwise.

The right to a living wage is an indispensable economic and social human right. Otherwise it's wage slavery.

Quite so Candie and we're talking about a company whose shares have just topped 100 dollars ; also the dividends for these have increased to around 3%, in time Apple plans to make sure its shareholders are the most richly compensated in terms of dividends in the entire US - surely it's not too much to ask for the same for its employees?

Iwasfrozen

Candie wrote: »

No it does not mean their prices must increase. It can mean their profit decreases, a novel but viable concept. Their enormous profit, gained by the exploitation of labour, ethically and/or otherwise.

The right to a living wage is an indispensable economic and social human right. Otherwise it's wage slavery.

Apple has a very strong brand and therefore a highly inelastic product.

Should Apple, or any other such company, be forced to pay their minimum wage employees 3 dollars more that cost will be passed onto the consumer and nonsense about in-existent human rights doesn't change that.