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Child Item

Bed wetting . . . HELP!

chellyry

Apologies if there have been threads like this already.

Has anyone tips for training a child not to wet the bed at night. My 4 year old has been wetting the bed up to 3 times a night most nights for months now. I'm at my wits end, and everything stinks of wee because the smell just won't wash out anymore.

I set my alarm to bring him out to the toilet during the night but he has usually wet himself before that or else will sit on the toilet/potty for ages and refuse to do anything, then wet himself half an hour later.

He doesn't get drinks in the 3hrs before going to bed.

He goes to the toilet straight before bed.

I have told him that certain treats are only allowed when he has gone all night without wetting himself.

I know that he can do it because he went about a week being dry in the beginning but then got lazy. He has gotten worse during the day too due to sheer laziness. He is having accidents because he doesn't want to stop what he is doing to go to the toilet.

I refuse to go back to pull ups because they're a big step backwards in my opinion, but I can't keep going like this.

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Pugins

I know some relations of ours eventually used a bed wetting alarm device on their serial bed wetter but he was older. Can't remember the name but essentially it gives a tiny electrical shock when the pee hits it. The idea is to train your mind to recognise your full bladder and empty it to avoid the electrical shock.

diveout

It could be a uti or constipation pressuring the bladder. Check those out first.

Qualitymark

After checking with the doctor to make sure it's not an infection, maybe go back to pull-ups for nights. Take the pressure off - it's obviously become a cause of contention between you.

Call me Al

If I were you I'd try the bedwetting alarm or I'd go back to pull ups at night. It's not worth the stress it's obviously causing you all.

Taltos

Call me Al wrote: »

If I were you I'd try the bedwetting alarm or I'd go back to pull ups at night. It's not worth the stress it's obviously causing you all.

And the stress it is causing your little one... Which in turn could be contributing to this...

I am assuming that you have checked it all out with a medical professional to ensure there is no physical cause - eg an issue with the bladder or an infection.

I too think pull ups would be a good choice, all of these sleepless nights must be killing you and him.

2xj3hplqgsbkym

A 4 year old should not have to urinate 3 times a night. Definitely go to gp and get tests done first.

maryk123

He is clearly not ready. I know he did a week. But the stress he is under now with you setting alarms etc. is stress in itself. I would give him pull ups. He is only four he is still only a baby.

I wouldn't loose sleep over this. It sounds like the two of yee are stressed over this and that is not going to make him stop wetting the bed. Some kids just take longer.

xzanti

chellyry wrote: »

I have told him that certain treats are only allowed when he has gone all night without wetting himself.

Seriously?

He's only 4?? Keep him in Pull-Ups, he'll grow out of it.. some kids wet the bed til they're over 10!!

I'd also take him to the doctor to rule out the above conditions anyway.

Give the kid a break!!

Chattastrophe!

I really hope that those posts about giving the child an electric shock when they wet the bed aren't serious ...

If I were you I'd be going back to the pull-ups, and stop stressing about it - it's not good for either of you. Go with positive rather than negative reinforcement - do not deny him treats when he has a bad night, instead really celebrate the nights he wakes up in a dry bed, make a big massive fuss about it and reward him (star charts etc.) If he wakes up having wet the bed, don't make it into a big deal and don't "punish" him in any way for it.

I'd chillax a bit about the whole thing. I know it's best not to give drinks for a couple of hours before bed, but you know, if he really wants one, I'd give it to him. (It might even make him need to go before bedtime!) I'd always suggest going to the loo before bed, and try to build it into his routine, but I wouldn't try to make him go if he didn't want to. You're putting a lot of pressure on him!

Could it be that he's waking up needing to go but is scared to go out to the loo by himself? Does he have nightlights, are the landing lights etc left on? Maybe get him a torch and tell him it's especially for when he needs to go to the loo at night - the novelty of it might encourage him to go! Or could you use baby monitors so that you'll hear him if he's stirring during the night, and then go in to him to see if he wants to go to the loo - I'd say that might be a better option than setting alarms for yourself to bring him, at least you'd be bringing him when he's half-awake already, probably more likely to go.

Just don't have a strict timeframe in mind. You hear about parents toilet-training their kids fully in about three days, but you also have kids that regularly wet themselves all through primary school. Just be patient, and don't make it into a big deal for him. Even when he does start to get into a routine, chances are there'll still be plenty of occasional accidents over the next few years ... it's normal, it's what kids do! I'm sure he hates the feeling of waking up to find that he's wet the bed just as much as you do, punishing him for it will only create more negative association for him and might make him less likely to want to learn.

Dozen Wicked Words

We used huggies bed Mats, small sheet over them so it looked like a normal bed, so when he did wet it was only pjs and small sheet going into wash. He was good bit older than OPs little one though, he was still in pull ups at that age. Definitely get GP to check out if you're worried though. Stress wont help anyone.

Big Bag of Chips

A child is not considered to be a bedwetter until they are 6. Up to that point the hormone that is produced in the brain may or may not be fully developed.

I have 3 kids. One was night time trained around 3, and has never ever wet the bed. One of the others is almost 9 and only very recently is dry every morning. The other is just gone 7 and again, only very recently has stopped wetting.

Punishing the child for something they have absolutely no control over is pointless. And will only upset him. I put pull-ups on. I left them off. I put them back on. I put underwear on under the pull-ups etc... I spent hours washing and trying to dry duvets. In the end I just left them on until they grew out of it.

Just put the pull-ups back on. He will eventually grow out of it. They make pyjama pants for up to 13, I think.. So there's obviously a need/market for them.

Anytime he wets, just shrug it off and tell him it's not his fault ('willy' got blamed for a lot in this house, and we just had to wait until 'willy' learned not to go when they were asleep!) It took a lot of pressure off in this house, and they realised it wasn't their fault.

He's not doing it on purpose.

Stick the pull-ups back on, it'll make things less stressful for you all.

ariana`

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

I know it's best not to give drinks for a couple of hours before bed, but you know, if he really wants one, I'd give it to him. (It might even make him need to go before bedtime!) I'd always suggest going to the loo before bed, and try to build it into his routine, but I wouldn't try to make him go if he didn't want to. You're putting a lot of pressure on him!

We had been trying to refuse/reduce liquids after 6pm for a while with our 4yr old but he was still bed-wetting. He would do a very small wee at 8pm going to bed. And then about 2-3am he'd wet the bed. He was wearing a pull-up but it would soak through it most nights.

So we switched things up. We stopped refusing him drinks in the evening. We took off the pull-ups as they were soaking through anyhow. He still goes to the toilet as part of his bedtime routine at 8pm and does a small wee. And now we lift him onto the toilet between 10 & 11pm (some nights he now wakes himself before we get to lift him) at which time he does a big wee. He then sleeps soundly and dry until between 6.30 & 8.30am when he gets up and uses the toilet himself.

We're all getting better sleep and are all happier.

I really don't think it's fair to punish a small child for something that happens while they're asleep, it's not laziness, he's not conscious, i'm sure i've read that you can only toilet "train" during the day, night times toileting is physiological and will come in time.

chellyry

xzanti wrote: »

Seriously?

He's only 4??
. . .
Give the kid a break!!

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

Go with positive rather than negative reinforcement - do not deny him treats when he has a bad night, instead really celebrate the nights he wakes up in a dry bed, make a big massive fuss about it and reward him (star charts etc.) If he wakes up having wet the bed, don't make it into a big deal and don't "punish" him in any way for it.

ariana` wrote: »

I really don't think it's fair to punish a small child for something that happens while they're asleep, it's not laziness, he's not conscious, i'm sure i've read that you can only toilet "train" during the day, night times toileting is physiological and will come in time.

I made that sound really bad, like I really punish him. What I mean is that I have these treats that he really likes in the freezer and when he goes a night without wetting he gets one of these. I don't deny him all of the things he likes.

Chattastrophe! - I make such a big deal when he goes a night without wetting. I tell him how happy I am with him, how he's getting to be such a big boy, and keep praising him. We tell all of the relatives that we see that he didn't wet the bed at all the night before and they praise him to the heavens. I tried the star charts for training during the day and it was a disaster. I made up my own charts with his name on them, bought stickers of all of the cartoon characters he likes and stuck them on it, got coloured stars and he got to stick them on himself. He lost interest after about three stars, he got maybe 1 a week if that, even though I kept encouraging him.

ariana' - It is laziness to a certain extent because when I ask him why he has wet the bed he says 'because I wanted to' or 'i was too tired to go to the toilet' so I've tried putting him to bed a little earlier so that he's not so tired and that hasn't worked either. He has also told me 'mammy I'm going to wet the bed tonight' with a big smirk on his face. I get what you're saying though and I won't be so hard on him for it.

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

Could it be that he's waking up needing to go but is scared to go out to the loo by himself? Does he have nightlights, are the landing lights etc left on? Maybe get him a torch and tell him it's especially for when he needs to go to the loo at night - the novelty of it might encourage him to go! Or could you use baby monitors so that you'll hear him if he's stirring during the night, and then go in to him to see if he wants to go to the loo - I'd say that might be a better option than setting alarms for yourself to bring him, at least you'd be bringing him when he's half-awake already, probably more likely to go.

He sleeps in the same room as me due to lack of space in my house so I've told him that he doesn't have to go out by himself he just has to call me to wake me and I'll bring him out. The toilet is right beside our room too and the hall light is left on all night. That torch idea sounds good though, the novelty of it might encourage him.

Thanks for the replies everyone, I understand that he's young yet and I might go back to pull ups, I'd just like to try all other options before I do. I'd be happy if we got to a stage where there was an occasional night that he wet the bed and not multiple times every night. But I'm not going to force it if he's truly not ready.

January

I'd definitely go back to pull ups if he's wetting multiple times a night, he's just not ready.

I always kept mine in pull ups until they were able to stay dry all night. The younger (she's 4 and a half now), wet the bed three times after I removed the pull ups but they were when she refused to use the toilet before bed and it was always only once a night.

Qualitymark

chellyry wrote: »

I made that sound really bad, like I really punish him. What I mean is that I have these treats that he really likes in the freezer and when he goes a night without wetting he gets one of these. I don't deny him all of the things he likes.

Treats don't work as an incentive when you're four unless the reward is *immediate*. And rewarding a negative doesn't really work for the four-year-old brain.

If, on the other hand, you were to *immediately* reward a nice big pee at 10pm when he's lifted onto the loo, that could work. Hell on teeth, of course, but swings and roundabouts.

ariana`

chellyry wrote: »

ariana' - It is laziness to a certain extent because when I ask him why he has wet the bed he says 'because I wanted to' or 'i was too tired to go to the toilet' so I've tried putting him to bed a little earlier so that he's not so tired and that hasn't worked either. He has also told me 'mammy I'm going to wet the bed tonight' with a big smirk on his face. I get what you're saying though and I won't be so hard on him for it.

Just with regards to the 'smirk', he obviously knows the bed-wetting is bothering you, i'd give a very cool breezy resonse to that "ok, love that's fine" said in a very nonchalant, even cheerful tone... if he thinks it won't bother you then that attitude will disappear quickly enough. That works will my lad anyhow when he gets "attitude" about things!

To be honest i think if i were in your position with my 4yr old i'd just bite the bullet and try pull-ups again for a few months. It sounds like it's become stressful for all of you and if nothing else pull-ups will give ye all a break from the stress. Especially if there's any other additional change happening - starting school/pre-school?

ariana`

Qualitymark wrote: »

If, on the other hand, you were to *immediately* reward a nice big pee at 10pm when he's lifted onto the loo, that could work. Hell on teeth, of course, but swings and roundabouts.

When i lift my 4yr old at 10/11pm he doesn't really wake up, he barely opens his eyes to be honest, i can't imagine trying to give him a treat or reward of any kind at that time. Maybe other children wake up more but i know it would confuse the hell out of the my 4yr old if i started giving him a treat in the middle of the night.

Qualitymark

If you're a Freudian you'd go with the idea that to a small child, bodily products and the control of them are super-important; they're one of the few things they *can* control.
Pull-ups ftw.

pwurple

Sweets at ten pm would be senseless, but a sticker or reward chart might help.

Use the pull ups I'd say as well.

LegacyUser

When he give you the 'smirk' I would just tell him that fine if he wets the bed as you have no clean sheets to put on it.
Get one of those plastic sheets to protect the mattress and the wet will stay in the sheet.
Tell him he can sleep on a wet sheet.
He knows what he is doing and that it is annoying you so let him sleep on a wet, smelly sheet and he will get the message.

I don't agree with pull up as they are just an easy way of letting a child away with making no effort to get dry at night.
I would tell him that if he does not stop wetting the bed there will be no treats as you have to spend the money on nappies for him.
I would then say to him I must ask (his friends name) mammy does (friend name) wet the bed?

Big Bag of Chips

Have you children girl fri? Have any of them ever wet the bed?

I know with mine not putting pullups on them made no difference. They did not wake if they wet during the night, so they would wet, stay asleep, and wake up in the morning freezing from sleeping in wet clothes and sheets. As they got older, and got closer to not being bed wetters they might wake after wetting - but they were almost 7/8 before that started to happen.

Some children can't "make the effort" to stay dry at night. For most children who wet the bed it's something they have no control over. They are unconscious when they do it. A child saying he's going to wet the bed is probably just stating a fact. If he's done it every night, chances are he's going to do it that night. The smirk might be defiant. It might be nervous. It might be trying to make a joke out of it so that mammy won't get mad... the child is 4!

I know an 18 year old who wet the bed until she was 13. It devastated her, and she had to wear the teenage equivalent of pullups. Not good for a child's self esteem. So trying to "shame" the child by telling them you are going to tell their friends' mammies, or leave them sleeping in smelly wet sheets and clothes etc could nearly be classed as child abuse.

I thought we'd all moved on from there, and realise that children are deserving of basic respect.

Neyite

girl fri wrote: »

When he give you the 'smirk' I would just tell him that fine if he wets the bed as you have no clean sheets to put on it.
Get one of those plastic sheets to protect the mattress and the wet will stay in the sheet.
Tell him he can sleep on a wet sheet.
He knows what he is doing and that it is annoying you so let him sleep on a wet, smelly sheet and he will get the message.

I don't agree with pull up as they are just an easy way of letting a child away with making no effort to get dry at night.
I would tell him that if he does not stop wetting the bed there will be no treats as you have to spend the money on nappies for him.
I would then say to him I must ask (his friends name) mammy does (friend name) wet the bed?

So you'd leave a child in their own urine, cold and wet, overnight.
Then you'd ban all treats.
And shame them by saying it to their friends mammy?

So you'd agree that its ok to punish someone for something they do when they are asleep, like if you snored or stole the blankets on your partner he'd be allowed to make you physically uncomfortable and cold for hours at night so you cant sleep, withdraw affection or any nice things he does for you during the day for a week or more, and tell people so you'd get embarassed?

And I'd imagine your first suggestion of leaving a child in their own filth for hours on end is something that would make a social worker seriously question your parenting. Its cruelty and neglect.

All I see in the smirk is a bit of bravado from a sad little boy who knows his mother is stressed by his bedwetting.

diveout

girl fri wrote: »

When he give you the 'smirk' I would just tell him that fine if he wets the bed as you have no clean sheets to put on it.
Get one of those plastic sheets to protect the mattress and the wet will stay in the sheet.
Tell him he can sleep on a wet sheet.
He knows what he is doing and that it is annoying you so let him sleep on a wet, smelly sheet and he will get the message.

I don't agree with pull up as they are just an easy way of letting a child away with making no effort to get dry at night.
I would tell him that if he does not stop wetting the bed there will be no treats as you have to spend the money on nappies for him.
I would then say to him I must ask (his friends name) mammy does (friend name) wet the bed?

Holy ****. You are going to create so much anxiety you will possibly shift what is a biological cause into a psychological cause.

This is AWFUL advise. No one should listen to it. IGNORE!!!!!!

Qualitymark

girl fri wrote: »

I don't agree with pull up as they are just an easy way of letting a child away with making no effort to get dry at night.
I would tell him that if he does not stop wetting the bed there will be no treats as you have to spend the money on nappies for him.
I would then say to him I must ask (his friends name) mammy does (friend name) wet the bed?

Not everyone's bladder matures at the same time. And threatening to humiliate your child by exposing his weakness to his friends and parents… words fail me.

This is not kind or sensible advice, in my opinion.

lukesmom

Don't feed the troll!

Liberalbrehon

ariana` wrote: »

We had been trying to refuse/reduce liquids after 6pm for a while with our 4yr old but he was still bed-wetting. He would do a very small wee at 8pm going to bed. And then about 2-3am he'd wet the bed. He was wearing a pull-up but it would soak through it most nights.

So we switched things up. We stopped refusing him drinks in the evening. We took off the pull-ups as they were soaking through anyhow. He still goes to the toilet as part of his bedtime routine at 8pm and does a small wee. And now we lift him onto the toilet between 10 & 11pm (some nights he now wakes himself before we get to lift him) at which time he does a big wee. He then sleeps soundly and dry until between 6.30 & 8.30am when he gets up and uses the toilet himself.

We're all getting better sleep and are all happier.

I really don't think it's fair to punish a small child for something that happens while they're asleep, it's not laziness, he's not conscious, i'm sure i've read that you can only toilet "train" during the day, night times toileting is physiological and will come in time.

This is best advice. Forget about pullups and any other gimmicks. Get the child up at 11pm and 2pm if necessary. Eventually will wake themselves up and go to toilet on own. We started at 2pm and over a couple of months brought it back to 10pm. He had trained himself to go before bed but more important to wake up and go to toilet during night if necessary. However, generally he went to sleep from 10 to 6 or 7 without problem after slow intervention.

ariana`

Liberalbrehon wrote: »

This is best advice. Forget about pullups and any other gimmicks. Get the child up at 11pm and 2pm if necessary. Eventually will wake themselves up and go to toilet on own. We started at 2pm and over a couple of months brought it back to 10pm. He had trained himself to go before bed but more important to wake up and go to toilet during night if necessary. However, generally he went to sleep from 10 to 6 or 7 without problem after slow intervention.

We've actually stopped lifting him now since i wrote that post. He gets up himself now during the night and goes or else he doesn't need to go until after 7am. Dry nights thankfully

chellyry

Ah that's great news ariana' big relief for you so.

I used to bring him out to the toilet at 10pm, 2am and 4.30am for months but it didn't work. I've given in and he's back in pull ups as of this week. I'll try again in about 6 months or so.

Thanks for the advice given everyone!

duckling10

our own experience:
our 8 yr old son has just finished using pull-ups,
how?
the Rodger alarm, the wireless version, not the wired alarm.

I sing it's praises to Highest Heavens!

It works via electronic sensors (no shocks involved!) in the special underwear, which set off a buzzing alarm when they become wet , the alarm is a small disc shaped thing which you have plugged in in the child's room. Read about it online, bedwettingalarm.ie. Underwear are available in many waist sizes and two colours, white or blue. Two underwear come with the order, extra can be ordered. Extra alarm discs are available to buy to plug into parent's bedroom too.
Child (with help of parent, if needed) has to get up, turn off alarm, go to loo, change into second special dry underwear and go back to bed.

This would have been too much for our DS to manage a year ago, he sleeps very deeply and hated being woken up (we tried a wired alarm, no good, also tried last spring just not using any pullups at all, and lifting him up midnight etc, no good, he wet all round him anyway- so glad I had a pair of small water-proof mattress protectors from Lidl). But at last he finally got it this past month with the new alarm!

We got the alarm at the end of August, just about the same time of the OP post, and in the four weeks since then, he has stopped wetting the bed. phew.....
I am delighted.
It was easy,actually, and thankfully, his confidence has improved, although I never gave out to him and was not in a rush, i was willing to wait till he managed to become dry all by himself, but it turns out he just needed the alarm to help him finally get the idea. I don't think he was physically ready for it a few years ago.
best money i ever spent.
in here to spread the word, as a genuine happy mother.
my advice to any parent of a bed-wetter?
use pull-ups and let everyone relax about it, and then get the Rodger alarm whenever you're ready to buy it.

uck51js9zml2yt

We never used pull ups but used nappies at night until we thought our 3 year old was ready.
We got disposable sheets from the vets for under the sheet. (much cheaper than the chemist) for when he went without. We have a baby and often said to him only babies use nappies, not big boys. This helped in him wanting to go without nappies at night.

We don't give him anything an hour before going to bed and make sure he's gone to the toilet before he goes up.

He's just turned 4 and has the occasional night were he's wet himself. Its never a big thing when it happens and I just change him and put him back to bed. We've never got upset with him over it and praised him when he had a dry night and told everyone in the house what he achieved.

The thing about during the day, you need to take the initiative and bring him to the toilet on a regular basis. Its easy for them to get engrossed in something and forget to tell you.

On the pull ups issue. I remember hearing a child psychologist on radio. Hes a regular on newstalk and speaks a whole load of sense. His recommendation was to avoid pull ups. They're a marketing tool and only serve to extend the period where the child is nappy free at night. The only ones that profit are the companies. I'm inclined to agree. I never had them as a kid (terry nappies for me).

Being with me when I went to the toilet helped him understand what boys do and we always make it a fun event..Its amazing the fun you can have on the loo:)

At this stage he's happy to tell us he wants to go to the toilet and makes sure we know he wants to go on his own, thought we sometimes sit with him at night while he's on the pot.