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The big Phil Fish, Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian discussion thread

richymcdermott

http://ie.ign.com/articles/2014/08/22/fez-creator-sells-company-after-hackers-expose-his-personal-info

I have voiced my opinions of Phil Fish after I find his opinions , his ego and everything he attacks that does not suit his own as disgusting as vile

He called quits on the gaming industry and in his own words took the money his fans gave him and made his game Fez a success and ran saying fans to shut the **** up you do not deserve a sequel and now it seems group of indivisuals have hacked phil fish and leaked out his personal information and now fish is going to sell his indie studio and the right to Fez.

While I feel for once this is a step to far as to know one should face exposing there private information and do not agree with this ever , Phil kept poking and poking and eventuallly someone going to react.

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calex71

IMO Fez was a bit of a troll , there were elements of that game deliberately designed to do so :mad:

Timmyctc

No one really deserves to have their info published in the way Quinn and Fish's has been the past few days. What Quinn did with the Game Jam was 100%(EDIT: I'm reading conflicting reports about this now so I have no idea what happened there) not on but the abuse levelled at her over speculation on how her sex life affected her game reviews was disgusting. Reddit and youtube were heavily censored and rightly so. Everyone on reddit was giving off that every other comment needed to be deleted and how it was because "Big evil Zoe" was again abusing her power, yet in the same breath spewing vitriol of the most abhorrent degree about the girl.

Fish is a different case altogether. There seems to be a lot of thinking that he may have actually posted the info himself as an excuse to sell off etc. I don't quite buy into it but with Fish its hard to rule something like that out. I genuinely think, however, that Fish (while being a bit of a dick) has some serious issues with his mental health. The guy seems to need help. I dont get why people continue to get worked up over him though. You dont like him? Don't buy his game. Simple really.

Also. People saying that this is deserved and hilarious need to take a look at themselves. If being a dick merits your important personal information being made public and your livlihood attacked, then I think a lot of us would be in the same position as Fish at one stage or another in our lives.

BeerWolf

All I can say is:

AHHAHAHA-HAHAHAHA-HAHAHAHAHAaaaa....

the incredible pudding

richymcdermott wrote: »

Its more than him given an opinion , anyone can give an opinion but when you personally insult your fanbase then I have a problem with it.

One of his first awards he got for fez he said to everyone suck my dick.

I do not know about anyone else but if you treat me like **** regardless of who you are I wont support your game.

So I have never bought fez , never played it never will , free on ps plus I refuse to even experience it out of sheer priniciple

Talented as fish may seem I wont stand the way he treats people and no matter how much he talked down on his fanbase who want to support him he ran away from his own mess he helped stirred up.

Does he deserve all blame ? Prob not as I am sure trolls , journalist played some part but there is no free passes because you makes games , music , movies you treat the people like dirt you will get burnt in the end .

Again, i want to firstly reiterate that I don't like nor do I dislike Phil Fish but I think you've got some things wrong.
(I can't believe I'm bothering to type this) he told one person to suck his dick, not everyone. That's an important distinction as you're feeling personally insulted by his behaviour towards some other asshole. Fish never really treated anyone that badly, he's just got a really big mouth, a really big ego and a very antagonistic personality. If someone insults him online, he (very stupidly) insults them back. It's a stupid thing to do and rightly makes him out to be a dickhead but, to my mind, doesn't remotely warrant the vitriolic response it garnered.

Phil Fish is probably an asshole but a lot of good artists are (Can we please avoid a videogame=art conversation if at all possible before anyone gets any ideas). I appreciate the art of Polanski, Allen, Eastwood, Davis etc, for their work. I'd prefer that they weren't guitly the misdeeds that they've been accused of but truthfully, I don't really give a ****. Not to the extent that it affects how I enjoy their work. I certainly dont want them to get away with anything due to their status and would hope and expect them to be punished for what they've done but don't think it really have an effect on how their work is appreciated.

On the list of good artists that are assholes, Fish is pretty damn low in terms of bad things committed. Hell, in my mind, the worst thing he did to his fans was to delay updating a savegame breaking bug in Fez until (I think) Microsoft reduced the pricing for providing patches for games.

degrassinoel

talented game dev behaves like spoilt child, throws dummy out of pram.

the only reason i care about this is for drama value.. what'll he do next?

Dev's behaving badly

johnny_ultimate

Forgetting the circumstances of this wider cluster**** for a second (certain aspects of which make me despair for the immediate future of both gaming community and writing), I am saddened we won't see the other games Phil Fish might have made. Fez was a very often delightful piece of work, full of bold ideas and great artistic promise - a clever, unique game that revealed more and more depths as you explored and considered its world and mechanics. When I was playing the game, I forgot about Phil Fish the Twitter Personality, Provocateur and Occasional Troll and admired Phil Fish the Game Developer. I was looking forward to more of that, but sadly any lingering hopes have now been near definitively dashed. I think for his own good he's making the right call getting out of the whole industry and public limelight. Maybe (but probably not) one day he'll quietly release his next effort, divorced from everything peripheral that has come to be associated with Fez. I'd like to play it.

richymcdermott

Its more than him given an opinion , anyone can give an opinion but when you personally insult your fanbase then I have a problem with it.

One of his first awards he got for fez he said to everyone suck my dick.

I do not know about anyone else but if you treat me like **** regardless of who you are I wont support your game.

So I have never bought fez , never played it never will , free on ps plus I refuse to even experience it out of sheer priniciple

Talented as fish may seem I wont stand the way he treats people and no matter how much he talked down on his fanbase who want to support him he ran away from his own mess he helped stirred up.

Does he deserve all blame ? Prob not as I am sure trolls , journalist played some part but there is no free passes because you makes games , music , movies you treat the people like dirt you will get burnt in the end .

Kirby

Good riddance.

the incredible pudding

This video sums up my feelings about Fish pretty well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmTUW-owa2w

I don't really understand why people care so much about the guy and his opinions. The guy acts like a dick, big deal! It's okay to dislike people like that but I believe anyone who feels that someone deserves to be treated so badly is behaving no better, if not worse than he is. What does it matter to you? Why does it make people so angry? It's like some antithesis to a cult of personality that the internet creates around someone they decide is an enemy. You'd swear he burned babies and fired them their remains through your window or something. I find the whole thing really pathetic.

My opinion on Phil Fish is as follows,

He made a good game,
He appears to behave like an egotistical asshole.

I don't care about the second part, it means nothing to me. I personally think you really have to look at yourself and ask why someone's relatively harmless behaviour affects you so much if you feel otherwise.

Magill

What has he actually worked on ? Just fez ? Swear he was some sort of rock star game developer the amount of exposure he gets... such a tit.

Status Offline

super_furry wrote: »

For me this article sums up the whole god awful mess perfectly - http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/08/22/the-truth-about-video-game-journalism/

It covers a very small amount of the events leading up to the mess There's far more to it than that.It started with the ex's blog but the attacks on Quinn aren't largely to do with her personal life.Any one can type Quinn into Reddit and if you read around you'll get to see the whole story. The above article only covers one small part of the mess and it doesn't appear to dig any further than that, instead hanging on to the lazy stereotype of sexist outraged gamers attacking a poor little girl.The truth is that it looks like she Doxxed herself to make it look like there was a campaign against her and when that failed the shot really kicked off. She did it before and that was how she became noticed.

Status Offline

Sand wrote: »

I don't know who Phil Fish is and I've never played Fez so his threat never to make Fez 2 is...underwhelming. So I don't appreciate the "Kony 2012" rage this man seems to inspire. If Phil Fish is a giant self entitled dick, then he's just reflecting the online community for most games. People need to grow up and develop thicker skins.

Most individual game devs really don't need individual gamers as much as individual gamers believe they do. That said, it going by the OP it seems like the online community is living up to his low expectations of them.

If they don't need gamers then why don't they give their game away for free? Every other industry understands that if you piss off customers, you don't get sales.Every customer/gamer is important as they are the ones paying for the devs product.it's not the customers fault that the game is cheap and that the developer runs the business so badly that they can barely make a living from it.

I'm getting sick to the ****ing bone of indie devs acting like they're hard done by.it's their choice to be developers and deal with the public.If they want to have a successful career treat every customer like their your boss.If they can't manage that,then either get a job working for a bigger game company or don't deal with the public full stop. The way some of them go on,you'd swear that they were being held at gun point to make some ****ty game no one gives a **** about and then when they make no money from it, attack the people who actually supported them. Over entitled hipster ****s

super_furry

For me this article sums up the whole god awful mess perfectly - http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/08/22/the-truth-about-video-game-journalism/

Sand

I don't know who Phil Fish is and I've never played Fez so his threat never to make Fez 2 is...underwhelming. So I don't appreciate the "Kony 2012" rage this man seems to inspire. If Phil Fish is a giant self entitled dick, then he's just reflecting the online community for most games. People need to grow up and develop thicker skins.

Most individual game devs really don't need individual gamers as much as individual gamers believe they do. That said, it going by the OP it seems like the online community is living up to his low expectations of them.

GarIT

krudler wrote: »

Then he shouldn't ben engaging people on the net if he can't handle any sort of criticism or rational arguments, I dont mean idiot youtube comments but any criticism whatsoever. The gaming industry really needs to grow up when it comes to this kind of thing.

He was clearly asking for trouble, but I know that I've lashed out and started fights on the net when I've been depressed. It's not an easy thing to deal with. He brought it on himself but I still have some sympathy.

krudler

GarIT wrote: »

I really feel sorry for the guy, there's a good bit about him in 'Indie Game: The Movie'. Apparently he has battled with depression and suicidal thoughts for years. His girlfriend of a few years left him while making Fez because he was always broke. Apparently he isn't a very nice guy but he has had his fair share of difficulties, he doesn't deserve this.

Then he shouldn't ben engaging people on the net if he can't handle any sort of criticism or rational arguments, I dont mean idiot youtube comments but any criticism whatsoever. The gaming industry really needs to grow up when it comes to this kind of thing.

richymcdermott

One of the first awards phil fish won for fez he told people to suck his dick , regardless if fez is the best platformer or if any person in general if they make the best games ever , you do not act professional you are not fit in the business.

Phil picks fights and says things to wild up people , most of his haters on twitter and media forums are probably teenagers and instead of being professional and an adult and ignoring people he fights with them.

How can you take a industry seriously when you see famous people say **** you and **** you back ?

Where is the maturity ?

Kylo Ren

The guy is a grade A dick.

GarIT

I really feel sorry for the guy, there's a good bit about him in 'Indie Game: The Movie'. Apparently he has battled with depression and suicidal thoughts for years. His girlfriend of a few years left him while making Fez because he was always broke. Apparently he isn't a very nice guy but he has had his fair share of difficulties, he doesn't deserve this.

pablomakaveli

Status Offline wrote: »

Nothing wrong with defending a friend, but when he starts calling people rapists, provoking people,attacking Total Biscuit and making underhand comments about his cancer and a fistful of other ****, he's hardly the innocent white knight the SJW idiots are making him out to be. He mightn't have deserved this but if you go poking at a bear,don't act like it's not partially your fault when you get your face ripped off.
As for Quinn, she's ****ing far from being innocent in the whole matter either.Leaving her private life to one side, she has been heavily involved in trying to censor Youtubers and sites giving her and her game negative press. Look at the Steam community page for her joke of a game.Any negative comments about her game...deleted.Also her involvement in trying to destroy a game jam similar to her own has been fairly well documented over the last few days. She was quick enough to attack other people for actions she deemed immoral, now the shoes on the other foot, she's pulling the usual SJW **** and trying to twist it to make her self out to be an innocent victim.As much as Fish brought it on himself, did Quinn. hey really pissed off the wrong people and from what I can make out,this is only the beginning of it.

Also worth mentioning she also sabotaged a game jam set up to encourage female game developers so she could set up her own. Both her and Phil Fish aren't exactly innocent in the whole affair.

pablomakaveli

Interested Observer wrote: »

Google "Zoe Quinn" if you really want, it's real tabloid stuff, and from what I've read I've no idea what it actually has to do with gaming other than a games developer was involved (I mean if an accountant was involved it wouldn't have been about accounting).

That whole thing has turned into a massive cluster****. Whats even more worrying is how that woman seems to have so much influence with the topic being censored and various sites including some of the gaming subreddits on reddit and even 4chan.

Phil Fish was defending her but in an extremely vile way and seemed to have a meltdown on twitter.

The whole thing is a farce and has shown up the gaming industry as a joke.

Status Offline

super_furry wrote: »

He was hacked and had his private information just because he defended his friend against a pretty nasty harassment campaign. This is a man who has made one of the best platformers of the last decade and whatever you think of his twitter persona, it's really ****ty that he's been forced to take such a drastic step.

Nothing wrong with defending a friend, but when he starts calling people rapists, provoking people,attacking Total Biscuit and making underhand comments about his cancer and a fistful of other ****, he's hardly the innocent white knight the SJW idiots are making him out to be. He mightn't have deserved this but if you go poking at a bear,don't act like it's not partially your fault when you get your face ripped off.
As for Quinn, she's ****ing far from being innocent in the whole matter either.Leaving her private life to one side, she has been heavily involved in trying to censor Youtubers and sites giving her and her game negative press. Look at the Steam community page for her joke of a game.Any negative comments about her game...deleted.Also her involvement in trying to destroy a game jam similar to her own has been fairly well documented over the last few days. She was quick enough to attack other people for actions she deemed immoral, now the shoes on the other foot, she's pulling the usual SJW **** and trying to twist it to make her self out to be an innocent victim.As much as Fish brought it on himself, did Quinn. hey really pissed off the wrong people and from what I can make out,this is only the beginning of it.

[Deleted User]

Calhoun wrote: »

What's the deal with the other developer he was defending ? Sounds a bit crazy all of it .

Google "Zoe Quinn" if you really want, it's real tabloid stuff, and from what I've read I've no idea what it actually has to do with gaming other than a games developer was involved (I mean if an accountant was involved it wouldn't have been about accounting).

Calhoun

What's the deal with the other developer he was defending ? Sounds a bit crazy all of it .

cherryghost

He wasn't 'hacked', the idiot provided secretive employee information on his own website and some people exposed it. Is basically the jist of it. Apparently he could be jailed for it.

Turtwig

He's a talented game developer. It's a pity he quit the industry. His behavior was dickish but people with dickish behavior and beliefs like those without those problems still produce amazing sht.. He definitely didn't deserve to have his privacy breached. The whole debacle shows how patheticly petty some humans can be. It doesn't reflect greatly on developers, gamers and the industry as a whole.

super_furry

He was hacked and had his private information just because he defended his friend against a pretty nasty harassment campaign. This is a man who has made one of the best platformers of the last decade and whatever you think of his twitter persona, it's really ****ty that he's been forced to take such a drastic step.

krudler

The guy is easily the biggest dickhead in gaming history but can't say i agree with publishing his info either. He tried to claim youtube users owed him money for people putting footage of Fez on youtube, pffft, gway.

Duggy747

I don't agree with putting out somebody's personal information like that but I just can't drum up any sympathy for him, he's a complete dickhead and has been for years.

Hawke

this is your audience. to every aspiring game developer out there: don’t. give up. it’s not worth it. nothing is worth this. give up on your dreams.

Better advice: Dont be a ****e.