ISIS are pure evil.

LorMal wrote: »

Obviously said in under extreme duress - he was reading them out from their prepared statement. The poor man.
Stop your bloody nonsense.

I'd say pretty much all American captives feel betrayed by their government who refuse to negotiate with terrorists for their release.

He knew that he was going to be killed. He was certain about this. Duress comes into play when there is a real threat that if you do not say or do as your captor demands you will be imminently killed or punished.

Do we at least not owe it to the poor man to consider his last words carefully rather than just write it off as duress.

SEPT 23 1989

unseenfootage wrote: »

Do we at least not owe it to the poor man to consider his last words carefully rather than just write it off as duress.

im sure he would have said exactly the same thing had he been at home safe with his family

what planet are you on?

unseenfootage wrote: »

Do we at least not owe it to the poor man to consider his last words carefully rather than just write it off as duress.

"read the script & we'll make it quick"

Would you not chose that?
(Trolling aside)

unseenfootage wrote: »

I'd say pretty much all American captives feel betrayed by their government who refuse to negotiate with terrorists for their release.

He knew that he was going to be killed. He was certain about this. Duress comes into play when there is a real threat that if you do not say or do as your captor demands you will be imminently killed or punished.

Do we at least not owe it to the poor man to consider his last words carefully rather than just write it off as duress.

Given your posting history, I am very suspicious of your intent here. Again it is absolutely obvious that he was forced to read this script. He was an intelligent, liberal and articulate individual. He would never have said such nonsense (even castigating and blaming his own brother) if he was not forced to. Again, that is absolutely obvious to anyone that does not have an agenda (which I very much suspect you do). The script is very anti-western and that is why you want us 'to consider his last words carefully'. You know exactly what you are doing...its sickening.

These were not his "last words". They were ISIS's script. And if you do not think knelling in the desert, handcuffed, beside a psychopath with a knife is not 'under duress' then I despair...

LorMal wrote: »

Given your posting history, I am very suspicious of your intent here.

Damn straight!

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

im sure he would have said exactly the same thing had he been at home safe with his family

what planet are you on?

Who knows what he would've said.
There are millions of Americans who are against US foreign policy in the Middle East.

What planet are you on?

unseenfootage wrote: »

What planet are you on?

Checkmate.

HazDanz

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I never watch these videos. It's a horrible thing to watch and is exactly what they want.

Better to remember the guy as the journalist and person he was rather than the guy who gets beheaded in that video.

I looked at it to learn more about ISIS.

Look at evil to see what it is.

Here some words for you to "carefully consider"...

'We have never been prouder of our son Jim. He gave his life trying to expose the world to the suffering of the Syrian people.

'We implore the kidnappers to spare the lives of the remaining hostages. Like Jim, they are innocents. They have no control over American government policy in Iraq, Syria or anywhere in the world.

'We thank Jim for all the joy he gave us. He was an extraordinary son, brother, journalist and person. Please respect our privacy in the days ahead as we mourn and cherish Jim.'

Mother of James Wright Foley, RIP.... God Bless Her.

HazDanz wrote: »

Look at evil to see what it is.

Same reason I watched it.

We should all see the horror of evil that we don't become complacent with it.

LorMal wrote: »

Given your posting history, I am very suspicious of your intent here..

My only intent here is to discuss the uncomfortable truth even if it means asking questions which people may not like. I object strongly to US aggression in the Middle East as much as I object to the killing of innocents people.

Do you mind sharing what your suspicions are with us.

unseenfootage wrote: »

My only intent here is to discuss the uncomfortable truth even if it means asking questions which people may not like. I object strongly to US aggression in the Middle East as much as I object to the killing of innocents people.

Do you mind sharing what your suspicions are with us.

You have posted here enough times. Your posts speak for you.

LorMal wrote: »

You have posted here enough times. Your posts speak for you.

Never mind.

LorMal wrote: »

Here some words for you to "carefully consider"...

'We have never been prouder of our son Jim. He gave his life trying to expose the world to the suffering of the Syrian people.

'We implore the kidnappers to spare the lives of the remaining hostages. Like Jim, they are innocents. They have no control over American government policy in Iraq, Syria or anywhere in the world.

'We thank Jim for all the joy he gave us. He was an extraordinary son, brother, journalist and person. Please respect our privacy in the days ahead as we mourn and cherish Jim.'

Mother of James Wright Foley, RIP.... God Bless Her.

This is why I think that this execution is a transgression. I really feel very sad for her.

Ignorant etc.

DeadHand wrote: »

Come now, don't overstate the danger.

Hitler's Germany at the outbreak of war had one of the most powerful navies in the world, arguably it's most powerful airforce, enjoyed the most advanced technology of the day and huge industrial/manufacturing power. It had an unrivalled land army and and massive pools of manpower. It had or would soon have several relatively powerful allies.

ISIS lacks any of that. No navy. No airforce. No industrial base. No powerful, external allies they are, in fact, despised by all surrounding factions. Lightly armed and armoured land forces still significantly outnumbered by most of their enemies.

ISIS, as it stands, can't even take all of Iraq or Syria. They're being held by a numerous and commited but underequipped Peshmerga (a glorified militia, in reality), various other militias/guerrilla groups, the notoriously brittle Iraqi army (with the so far fairly limited help of the USAF and RAF) and Assad's beleaguered Syria (he hasn't gone away, you know). Not forgetting Hezbollah or the Lebanese army.

If they absolutely had to, Turkey, Israel or Iran are regional powers that have the military muscle to crush ISIS with relative
ease.

While ISIS are a grave threat to the peoples of the Middle East, to compare them to the global behemoth that was the Third Reich is fantasy.

ISIS can't last. Not surrounded as they are on all sides by powerful forces intent their destruction, not facing the stiff resistance they are in their "homeland", not with the internal strife that is bound to surface eventually among the Sunnis between Saddam's Baathist old guard and the newer, jihadist element.

I predict that this time next year they will be reduced to just another guerrilla group hiding out in caves. Not that things will be much better in the Middle East. That region will still be a mess long after anyone reading this is dead.

I tend to agree that they will fight themselves out. However, you are citing 1939 Germany. 1933 Germany was a completely different ball game. Even in 1938 the major European forces were still underestimating Hitler. Also, it doesn't even have to be ISIS that goes to war, they may just merely be the catalyst.

I firmly believe that, if ISIS can get a strong foothold, ISIS will look to attack Iran. Iran, so far, has been playing a waiting game, very wisely I may add. However, if ISIS does attack Iran, you are quite correct that Iran will wipe it out within weeks, if not days. However, Iran has always looked west towards Iraq, certainly during the time of the Ayatollah, and probably even before. Don't forget that some jiggery-pokery on the part of the Americans and the British helped Sadaam take power, and the reason the US and the UK wanted him in position was to counteract Iran. It wouldn't take Iran a lot to pursue an expansionist policy. Particularly because Ayatollah Khamenei and President Rouhani are lunatics. Particularly because, with the Shi'ites being treated so appallingly in Iraq by ISIS, Iran would have an additional excuse for taking them under their wing. And add to that the various lunatics running about in Washington and Westminster.

Now, America and Britain aren't going to like the idea of an expanded Iran, particularly with additional oil and are likely to try to stop Iran. You then have a severe conflict situation because Iran has a relatively strong military. Not as strong as Britain's or America's, admittedly, but much stronger than the Iraqi one was or is. If we thought Iraq was a protracted situation, then imagine what a conflict with Iran would be like. You're also dealing with religious nutters in Iran, whereas Sadaam, for all his faults, was a very secular leader by Middle Eastern standards.

If, as I suspect it would, proved far more difficult for an invasion to get a foothold in Iran, then you get into a locked down battle situation, and then other players come into play. How many countries in the Middle East, other than Israel, would support America and Britain? How many would take the opportunity to assist Iran if Iran looked like having a fighting chance, particularly after the bag of willies that America and Britain has made of Iraq?

Alternatively, lets suppose that the invasion of Iran did work, what then? We've already seen the mess that the invasion of Iraq has caused? How many future invasions will that lead to?

Sounds far-fetched? Probably. But then in 1933 how many people would have believed you if you said that within 6 years the whole of Europe, with a few non-European nations, would be imbroiled in a war and that 6,000,000 Jews, plus innumerable gypsies, homosexuals and handicapped people, would meet their end in gas chambers and other ways?

unseenfootage wrote: »

This is why I think that this execution is a transgression. I really feel very sad for her.

Nah, you don't.

DeadHand

The average person will say just about anything under duress. That's how the Spainish inquisition worked.

Those weren't a decent man's true final words, just more torture and humiliation heaped on him by his captors.

suicide_circus

These fcukers need to be bombed back to the Dark Ag......oh, wait

Ignorant etc.

DeadHand wrote: »

The average person will say just about anything under duress. That's how the Spainish inquisition worked.

Those weren't a decent man's true final words, just more torture and humiliation heaped on him by his captors.

I can't believe that anybody actually thinks those words were what he though. Obviously, right until the bitter end, you are going to try to get your captor to let you go or at least not kill you. Even the slightest glimmer of hope would have made him comply. Also, we don't know what the captor said to him. He could well have been told, say these words and we won't kill you.

Ignorant etc.

suicide_circus wrote: »

These fcukers need to be bombed back to the Dark Ag......oh, wait

That is what created this mess in the first place. The ideal situation is that the ordinary people of Iraq rise up and defeat ISIS. Any other alternative will just create more problems.

Nodin

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

I can't believe that anybody actually thinks those words were what he though. Obviously, right until the bitter end, you are going to try to get your captor to let you go or at least not kill you. Even the slightest glimmer of hope would have made him comply. Also, we don't know what the captor said to him. He could well have been told, say these words and we won't kill you.

Or told him they'd put one in the back of his head as opposed to beheading the poor sod.

LorMal wrote: »

Nah, you don't.

Look I don't have to convince you or anyone on here of my genuine sympathy for a grieving mother and her heartfelt plea for mercy.

You cannot accept when people diverge from your world view.

You cannot defeat my arguments, hence the ad hominen attacks.

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

I can't believe that anybody actually thinks those words were what he though. Obviously, right until the bitter end, you are going to try to get your captor to let you go or at least not kill you. Even the slightest glimmer of hope would have made him comply. Also, we don't know what the captor said to him. He could well have been told, say these words and we won't kill you.

NOBODY believes these were his true words. BUT Unseenfootage would like us all to "consider" them (because they agree with his viewpoint.) But they were written by ISIS.
Unseenfootage viewpoint= ISIS viewpoint

unseenfootage wrote: »

You cannot defeat my arguments, hence the ad hominen attacks.

What are these "arguments"?

LorMal wrote: »

NOBODY believes these were his true words. BUT Unseenfootage would like us all to "consider" them (because they agree with his viewpoint.) But they were written by ISIS.
Unseenfootage viewpoint= ISIS viewpoint

Lol...I've called them terrorists, extremists and what not.
I've said that the killing was wrong and that the man is innocent.

Is that ISIS viewpoint?

You're quite belligerent now aren't you?

unseenfootage wrote: »

Look I don't have to convince you or anyone on here of my genuine sympathy for a grieving mother and her heartfelt plea for mercy.

You cannot accept when people diverge from your world view.

You cannot defeat my arguments, hence the ad hominen attacks.

Who do you remind me of?????

DeadHand wrote: »

The average person will say just about anything under duress. That's how the Spainish inquisition worked.

Those weren't a decent man's true final words, just more torture and humiliation heaped on him by his captors.

Are you suggesting that he said these words, because he feared prolonged torture and humiliation before being executed.

This is somewhat more plausible than the overly emotional rant by Lormar.

I could accept this.