ISIS are pure evil.

LorMal wrote: »

Here some words for you to "carefully consider"...

'We have never been prouder of our son Jim. He gave his life trying to expose the world to the suffering of the Syrian people.

'We implore the kidnappers to spare the lives of the remaining hostages. Like Jim, they are innocents. They have no control over American government policy in Iraq, Syria or anywhere in the world.

'We thank Jim for all the joy he gave us. He was an extraordinary son, brother, journalist and person. Please respect our privacy in the days ahead as we mourn and cherish Jim.'

Mother of James Wright Foley, RIP.... God Bless Her.

This is why I think that this execution is a transgression. I really feel very sad for her.

LorMal wrote: »

You have posted here enough times. Your posts speak for you.

Never mind.

LorMal

unseenfootage wrote: »

My only intent here is to discuss the uncomfortable truth even if it means asking questions which people may not like. I object strongly to US aggression in the Middle East as much as I object to the killing of innocents people.

Do you mind sharing what your suspicions are with us.

You have posted here enough times. Your posts speak for you.

LorMal wrote: »

Given your posting history, I am very suspicious of your intent here..

My only intent here is to discuss the uncomfortable truth even if it means asking questions which people may not like. I object strongly to US aggression in the Middle East as much as I object to the killing of innocents people.

Do you mind sharing what your suspicions are with us.

HazDanz wrote: »

Look at evil to see what it is.

Same reason I watched it.

We should all see the horror of evil that we don't become complacent with it.

LorMal

Here some words for you to "carefully consider"...

'We have never been prouder of our son Jim. He gave his life trying to expose the world to the suffering of the Syrian people.

'We implore the kidnappers to spare the lives of the remaining hostages. Like Jim, they are innocents. They have no control over American government policy in Iraq, Syria or anywhere in the world.

'We thank Jim for all the joy he gave us. He was an extraordinary son, brother, journalist and person. Please respect our privacy in the days ahead as we mourn and cherish Jim.'

Mother of James Wright Foley, RIP.... God Bless Her.

HazDanz

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I never watch these videos. It's a horrible thing to watch and is exactly what they want.

Better to remember the guy as the journalist and person he was rather than the guy who gets beheaded in that video.

I looked at it to learn more about ISIS.

Look at evil to see what it is.

unseenfootage wrote: »

What planet are you on?

Checkmate.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

im sure he would have said exactly the same thing had he been at home safe with his family

what planet are you on?

Who knows what he would've said.
There are millions of Americans who are against US foreign policy in the Middle East.

What planet are you on?

LorMal wrote: »

Given your posting history, I am very suspicious of your intent here.

Damn straight!

LorMal

unseenfootage wrote: »

I'd say pretty much all American captives feel betrayed by their government who refuse to negotiate with terrorists for their release.

He knew that he was going to be killed. He was certain about this. Duress comes into play when there is a real threat that if you do not say or do as your captor demands you will be imminently killed or punished.

Do we at least not owe it to the poor man to consider his last words carefully rather than just write it off as duress.

Given your posting history, I am very suspicious of your intent here. Again it is absolutely obvious that he was forced to read this script. He was an intelligent, liberal and articulate individual. He would never have said such nonsense (even castigating and blaming his own brother) if he was not forced to. Again, that is absolutely obvious to anyone that does not have an agenda (which I very much suspect you do). The script is very anti-western and that is why you want us 'to consider his last words carefully'. You know exactly what you are doing...its sickening.

These were not his "last words". They were ISIS's script. And if you do not think knelling in the desert, handcuffed, beside a psychopath with a knife is not 'under duress' then I despair...

unseenfootage wrote: »

Do we at least not owe it to the poor man to consider his last words carefully rather than just write it off as duress.

"read the script & we'll make it quick"

Would you not chose that?
(Trolling aside)

SEPT 23 1989

unseenfootage wrote: »

Do we at least not owe it to the poor man to consider his last words carefully rather than just write it off as duress.

im sure he would have said exactly the same thing had he been at home safe with his family

what planet are you on?

LorMal wrote: »

Obviously said in under extreme duress - he was reading them out from their prepared statement. The poor man.
Stop your bloody nonsense.

I'd say pretty much all American captives feel betrayed by their government who refuse to negotiate with terrorists for their release.

He knew that he was going to be killed. He was certain about this. Duress comes into play when there is a real threat that if you do not say or do as your captor demands you will be imminently killed or punished.

Do we at least not owe it to the poor man to consider his last words carefully rather than just write it off as duress.

FloatingVoter

The trouble this shower are causing is bringing back memories of Hitler's Germany. The Third Reich did not have a navy capable of taking on the Royal Navy. Plans were in place but 1939 was way too early, he honestly thought he'd bull**** his way into Poland.. Cue declaration of war, he flukes France with less tanks that the other side. Due to them being in the wrong place and having crap leadership. Dunkirk was the alarm clock going off.
If the west keeps dithering this crowd of maniacs could have haf the middle east under their thumbs before Professor Obama gets his head out of his ass.

DeadHand

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

with ISIS it looks possible that we are heading for another world war but against an enemy even more dangerous than Hitler's Germany.

Come now, don't overstate the danger.

Hitler's Germany at the outbreak of war had one of the most powerful navies in the world, arguably it's most powerful airforce, enjoyed the most advanced technology of the day and huge industrial/manufacturing power. It had an unrivalled land army and and massive pools of manpower. It had or would soon have several relatively powerful allies.

ISIS lacks any of that. No navy. No airforce. No industrial base. No powerful, external allies they are, in fact, despised by all surrounding factions. Lightly armed and armoured land forces still significantly outnumbered by most of their enemies.

ISIS, as it stands, can't even take all of Iraq or Syria. They're being held by a numerous and commited but underequipped Peshmerga (a glorified militia, in reality), various other militias/guerrilla groups, the notoriously brittle Iraqi army (with the so far fairly limited help of the USAF and RAF) and Assad's beleaguered Syria (he hasn't gone away, you know). Not forgetting Hezbollah or the Lebanese army.

If they absolutely had to, Turkey, Israel or Iran are regional powers that have the military muscle to crush ISIS with relative
ease.

While ISIS are a grave threat to the peoples of the Middle East, to compare them to the global behemoth that was the Third Reich is fantasy.

ISIS can't last. Not surrounded as they are on all sides by powerful forces intent their destruction, not facing the stiff resistance they are in their "homeland", not with the internal strife that is bound to surface eventually among the Sunnis between Saddam's Baathist old guard and the newer, jihadist element.

I predict that this time next year they will be reduced to just another guerrilla group hiding out in caves. Not that things will be much better in the Middle East. That region will still be a mess long after anyone reading this is dead.

Thinkingaboutit wrote: »

Islamic State and its self proclaimed caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi have proven themselves superior to all comers in Iraq and Syria. The much vaunted Peshmerga proved embarrassing weak. Only US airstrikes helped restore any sort of equilibrium. IS seem to have taken care that their hell on earth is self supporting with taxation and oil sales. They might utter vain and vague threats to take Rome, but overall their savagery seems grounded in the possible.

In Iraq they are taking on a fragile fragmented government which has been subjected to civil war for years and is already weakened by invasion. Equally, in Syria they are taking on a regime weakened by civil war. It is absolutely inevitable that they will sooner or later attack Iran. They hate Shia Muslims just as much as they hate "infidels" and Iran borders the area they are currently taking. Iran is a stable country with a stable government. The Iranian President and the Ayatollah also don't tolerate much. Iran also has a reasonably strong military. Of course, this doesn't avoid the nightmare of the current situation and it doesn't avoid the nightmare that would be an expanded Iran. However, it does suggest that, eventually, ISIS will either be wiped out or will have to retreat behind its own borders.

Sierra Oscar

comongethappy wrote: »

Thats an unforseen consequence of the US funding the FSA.

Its not fair to say that the US directly & intentionally funded & armed ISIS.... it simply isn't true. (Not that you are saying that).

Though funding & arming S Arabia & Qatar is another matter.

Yes it would be unfair to say that the US has been intentionally funding and arming ISIS. The US has been going out of its way to try and stop ISIS.

However it has happened unintentionally, and it is not as if people were not warning that this would happen. For anyone following the conflict for the last few years it has been pretty evident that the FSA has been plagued with problems, most notably that it is a rag bag collection of different groups with the aim of toppling Assad but not having much of a plan for a post Assad Syria. Even when military aid has been supplied they have demonstrated that they cannot put it to effective use.

The jihadist groups in contrast are well disciplined and able to perform some very impressive military maneuvers. ISIS has been overpowering the FSA in a number of locations and taking military supplies - often still in storage - that came from western sates.

It is paining policy formulators to admit it, but ISIS cannot be adequately targeted in Syria without the support of the Syrian government. Similarly the Syrian government cannot defeat ISIS without more external support. It is a big problem that could take a long time to overcome.

Eoin247 wrote: »

I just watched the video of that journalist being beheaded, and it was far worse than I thought it would be.

I thought it would just be a single sweep with a sword or something. But those animals used a ****ing short blunt knife to literally slowly saw his head off.

It makes my blood boil that these people are allowed to thrive. The Arab nations should make a coalition of nations with some aid from the west to wipe out these monsters!

When they start picking a fight with Iran, which is within their five year plan and is likely to come sooner than others with Iran being both a border country and a Shi'ite one, I don't fancy their chances too much.

Thinkingaboutit

Ignorant etc. wrote: »

The only thing about ISIS is that they will, in all probability, fight themselves out.

They, from what I can tell, want to take over the whole of Iraq and Syria, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, Israel, Palestine, the UAE, Qatar, Jordan, Lebanon, Cyprus, Turkey, iran, Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Croatia, Serbia, Slovenia, Austria, Slovakia, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Romania, Mali, Ethiopia, Sudan, Somalia, Mauritania etc.

All within five years?

Whilst all those countries are doing what? Letting them I suppose .

Are they smoking something?

Islamic State and its self proclaimed caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi have proven themselves superior to all comers in Iraq and Syria. The much vaunted Peshmerga proved embarrassing weak. Only US airstrikes helped restore any sort of equilibrium. IS seem to have taken care that their hell on earth is self supporting with taxation and oil sales. They might utter vain and vague threats to take Rome, but overall their savagery seems grounded in the possible.

AbusesToilets

Part of the issue is that the US held off backing the FSA for so long, denied it arms and training. Gave the extremist groups an opportunity to take the lead and become the dominant party in Syria. People are more likely to back a winner, as they perceive it.

Eoin247

I just watched the video of that journalist being beheaded, and it was far worse than I thought it would be.

I thought it would just be a single sweep with a sword or something. But those animals used a ****ing short blunt knife to literally slowly saw his head off.

It makes my blood boil that these people are allowed to thrive. The Arab nations should make a coalition of nations with some aid from the west to wipe out these monsters!

comongethappy wrote: »

Thats an unforseen consequence of the US funding the FSA.

Its not fair to say that the US directly & intentionally funded & armed ISIS.... it simply isn't true. (Not that you are saying that).

Though funding & arming S Arabia & Qatar is another matter.

It's more like Saudi and Qatar is funding USA.

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The problem is that many of these former moderate rebels are now flocking to ISIS. Entire brigades that were once associated with the FSA have pledged allegiance to ISIS.

Thats an unforseen consequence of the US funding the FSA.

Its not fair to say that the US directly & intentionally funded & armed ISIS.... it simply isn't true. (Not that you are saying that).

Though funding & arming S Arabia & Qatar is another matter.

FloatingVoter wrote: »

ISIS are pure evil. It doesn't need 5 pages of debate. People who behead children and bury people alive are not what you want your daughter to bring home.

This is a list that would also include: Jimmy Saville, Charles Manson, the German lad with the moustache, Stalin, the Ku Klux Klan, Fred West and numerous others.

ISIS are worse though, they have a sh1t flag.

Sierra Oscar

AbusesToilets wrote: »

The US and UK did not back IS, they backed moderate rebels groups in Syria that comprised the Free Syrian Army. They trained members of these groups in Jordan.

The problem is that many of these former moderate rebels are now flocking to ISIS. Entire brigades that were once associated with the FSA have pledged allegiance to ISIS. The weaker the FSA becomes the more likely that ISIS will continue to attract more fighters, and the weaponry that was supplied to the switching factions by outside states will follow with them.

The only thing about ISIS is that they will, in all probability, fight themselves out.

They, from what I can tell, want to take over the whole of Iraq and Syria, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, Israel, Palestine, the UAE, Qatar, Jordan, Lebanon, Cyprus, Turkey, Iran, Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Croatia, Serbia, Slovenia, Austria, Slovakia, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Romania, Mali, Ethiopia, Sudan, Somalia, Mauritania etc.

All within five years?

Whilst all those countries are doing what? Letting them I suppose

.

Are they smoking something?

FloatingVoter

ISIS are pure evil. It doesn't need 5 pages of debate. People who behead children and bury people alive are not what you want your daughter to bring home.

This is a list that would also include: Jimmy Saville, Charles Manson, the German lad with the moustache, Stalin, the Ku Klux Klan, Fred West and numerous others.

Minjor wrote: »

I'd debate whether the execution video has the effect of propaganda, most decent people see it for what it is, and know what IS are like at this stage.

I think those who may be influenced by ISIS or jihadis in the first place will seek out the video anyway....

For everyone else I think the populace need to wake up & see what is going on.

Something so shocking & tragic may be needed to awaken the west from its torpor.