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RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

slegs

RTE CFO speaking at Seanad committee announces that RTE will launch a Saorsat service with spot beam on Ireland of FTA PSB channels from Q2 2011. Presume Astra 28.2 but he didnt say.

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The Cush

Pulidog wrote: »

I know there is some European directive on broadcasting across the continent, but as other bodies may have the rights to these programmes in the UK, does anyone know what sort of legal position would my 'friend of a friend' be in for showing these programmes and would I have any liability as the installer (albeit on a DIY basis).

Some advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cross-border/overspill terrestrial/satellite reception is perfectly legal under Article 3 of the AVMS Directive provided you're not circumventing any encryption.

This from the EBU website

For the field of broadcasting this partial lack of EU harmonization has not yet created any difficulties, since the mere reception of a broadcast in another country, e.g. via terrestrial overspill (which occurs in all transmissions by national broadcasters), is not a relevant act under copyright law. In fact, for satellite broadcasts it is the very purpose of the injection rule in the Sat/Cab Directive to confirm that this problem is practically obsolete. If the satellite broadcast of a programme is lawful under an exception in accordance with the law of the country of injection, reception of that broadcast in the rest of the satellite footprint cannot be prohibited - at least not for copyright reasons.

http://www3.ebu.ch/files/live/sites/ebu/files/Knowledge/Media%20Law/Legal%20Topics/Copyright/20080430%20Transmissions%20over%20the%20Internet%20Euro%20sat%20model.pdf

Pulidog

Thanks for the prompt reply. I've clicked on the link and tried to quickly scan through the document but, as I get confused reading the back of the Cornflakes box, I soon got lost in the mire of legalese.
Does this mean, for example, if, say, Premier Sports have the rights to broadcast GAA in the UK, and my friend of a friend uses Saorsat to show the game in his premises, as he is receiving a FTA signal, he is not infringing Premiers rights. or if Sky have the rights for Heinikin Cup and he shows the same game using Saorsat, he is free to do so without the heavies beating down his doors.

The Cush

Pulidog wrote: »

Does this mean, for example, if, say, Premier Sports have the rights to broadcast GAA in the UK, and my friend of a friend uses Saorsat to show the game in his premises, as he is receiving a FTA signal, he is not infringing Premiers rights. or if Sky have the rights for Heinikin Cup and he shows the same game using Saorsat, he is free to do so without the heavies beating down his doors.

That would be my understanding.

John896

Here in Swansea there are two irish pubs that use saorsat,to show the GAA games with no problems.They have been doing it for quite some months.

Pulidog

Again, Thanks for the prompt reply.

There was a case a couple of years ago where some landlady, here in the UK, sortof won the right to show Premier League games using a sat box and card from a greek supplier but not completely, there were some restrictions or issues due to copyright and rights issues.

In this case, my friends friend would be showing a FTA broadcast. Surely this is no different to the situation in Ireland where most homes can receive Freesat and there is duplicity of programmes e.g. Coronation Street on ITV and RTE or Eastenders on BBC and RTE

Or, because sports bodies sell their broadcast rights to specific broadcast entities in particular geographic regions, e.g. GAA and Premier Sports, can those broadcast entities claim exclusive geographic rights, regardless of means of reception.

watty

I think she was "cheating" by using a Domestic Subscription rather than Commercial. If she had been either using it only at home or paying for a Commercial sub she would have been

It's irrelevant to this question as it was Encrypted Pay TV. The "Sans Frontiers" is about Free To Air Over Spill. Her defence was on pan European Union market for Goods and Services, though you are allowed to only sell to a particular Geographic region you are not allowed to prevent the customer "taking it home". Thus buying a Full UK Sky Sub or Freesat From Sky "sub", you can do that personally in UK and take it to Spain or Ireland for Private use and you are breaking no law. But if a 3rd party sells you a Sky Card that is theft of the card as they only bought use of it. Also it can contravene Sky's Contract so they are entitled to cease the service and refund any outstanding subscription.

So don't conflate Free To Air ( No viewing card or encryption), Commercial Pay TV or Private Pay TV. Note the "Freesat from Sky" card is Private Pay TV with just one payment. It's not FTA TV. Viewing card and sometimes Pay TV boxes (UPC) are always property of Pay TV provider or their card provider. Rights Holders can only directly "interfere" with Encrypted/Pay TV. The only jurisdiction they have is their contract with Broadcaster where the "overspill" is taken into account or has to be Reasonable (Hence UK main channels don't broadcast on 19E to all of Western Europe, But Irish coverage is OK, 85% of Irish Viewers had ITV before Digital Satellite, for Irish Broadcasters the Satellite overspill to UK must be comparable to that with a TV aerial.)

dublinman1990

Pulidog wrote: »

Again, Thanks for the prompt reply.

In this case, my friends friend would be showing a FTA broadcast. Surely this is no different to the situation in Ireland where most homes can receive Freesat and there is duplicity of programmes e.g. Coronation Street on ITV and RTE or Eastenders on BBC and RTE.

It's actually TV3 that provides the Irish Rights to Coronation Street now, not RTE.

TV3/3E is not available on Saorsat due to TV3 not paying their transmission fees.

I was thinking that had probably slipped your mind by then. Anyway, No worries.

Pulidog

Watty,

Thank you Watty, for your reply. Your advice, and the work you contributed to Techtir, was invaluable when I was setting up my own system when Saorsat first started broadcasting.
I am well outside any Saorview terrestrial reception area, and could be deemed to be on the fringes of Saorsat Satellite footprint.
So I can take it, with some surity, that as long as I'm receiving a FTA signal, it is legal for my friends friend to show the programmes available on Saorsat, regardless that the rights to show that programme in the uk may be owned by a subscription service.

Dublinman1990,

I stand corrected, thank you. TBH I don't watch either show and haven't done so since Ken Barlow divorced Angie Watts

John896,

It's good to hear that you have such wise and wonderful barlords in Swansea.

The Cush,

Thank you for doing the research and digging out the information you provided. You must have incredible patience to have read through all of that legal waffle. My head hurt after 5 minutes.

Stinicker

I guess RTE will never bother to launch RTE1HD on Saorsat. I really can't see why they bothered with it as a service, it is a waste of money, No TV3/3e, requires a 1 to 1.2metre dish in areas like Kerry & Donegal, has no Digital MHEG5 teletext. I think it is fair comment that Saorsat thus far is a complete and utter waste of time, money and resources by RTENL or 2RN as they are known now.

phelixoflaherty

Serves me fine, allowing me to record on my Humax, with some limitations, but happy with it

TAFKAlawhec

Looks like someone in East Anglia in England has somehow been able to pick up the Saorsat transponder on a 90cm dish...

http://www.satellites.co.uk/forums/threads/saorsat-received-way-off-footprint.161940/

TAFKAlawhec

Copyerselveson

It would seem that the Jamming transponder wasn't active and now the Saorsat signal is being jammed again.

watty

There is no "jamming". Beacons and Telemetry are not jamming.
There isn't any reason to expect coverage at all outside the publish spots.

Any claim of "jamming" is ill-informed and tantamount to libel. Obviously all 82 spots may not be fully utilised at all times.

Read again how it works!
http://www.techtir.ie/saortv/saorsat-coverage

Also any spot beam has side lobes.

There is as much point to trying to get Saorsat much outside of the service area as to receive Crystal Palace DTT transmitter in Dublin.

The main purpose of Saortsat is probably to provide backup feeds to DTT transmitters, giving coverage to people without DTT is a bonus.

It's puzzling though that there isn't RTE1 HD, perhaps for back up feed purposes the SD is deemed enough given the lack of much real HD content on RTE1.

FRIENDO

Still waiting for RTE 1 HD on Saorsat!

Reply in June from email I sent to Saorview info, I also asked about TV3, 3e and UTV Ireland

“Eventually RTE 1 and 2 will be upscaled to HD on the Saorsat system as of yet we do not have a time line

Kind regards”

“Thank you for contacting SAORVIEW

TV3 and 3e are currently on Saorsat due to a decision by TV3 Group not to have the stations carried on Saorsat, I have no information as to weather or not they are planning to change this decision.
UTV Ireland are currently still in talks as to whether or not the will be broadcasting on SAROVIEW and Saorsat.

Regards”

Onthe3rdDay

FRIENDO wrote: »

Still waiting for RTE 1 HD on Saorsat!

Reply in June from email I sent to Saorview info, I also asked about TV3, 3e and UTV Ireland

“Eventually RTE 1 and 2 will be upscaled to HD on the Saorsat system as of yet we do not have a time line

Kind regards”

“Thank you for contacting SAORVIEW

TV3 and 3e are currently on Saorsat due to a decision by TV3 Group not to have the stations carried on Saorsat, I have no information as to weather or not they are planning to change this decision.
UTV Ireland are currently still in talks as to whether or not the will be broadcasting on SAROVIEW and Saorsat.

Regards”

Did you actually get that email from RTE, if you did it's pretty shocking. I don't mind spelling mistakes and poor sentences/grammar on boards. I'd put my hands up and point out I'm far from perfect, but the first line makes no sense what so ever.

They're basically saying that TV3 and 3e are on Saorsat as they decided not to be on Saorsat???

I'm not even going to touch the other bits that are wrong.

FRIENDO

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

Did you actually get that email from RTE, .

Yes, email from soarview.

The Cush

FRIENDO wrote: »

Yes, email from soarview.

All Saorview calls and emails are handled by an external service provider now I believe. RTÉ published a tender for Saorview contact centre services last Nov, so that probably explains the email.

Copyerselveson

The Cush wrote: »

All Saorview calls and emails are handled by an external service provider now I believe. RTÉ published a tender for Saorview contact centre services last Nov, so that probably explains the email.

Would help greatly if they could send emails that are factually correct let alone with the correct spelling.

Johnboy1951

FRIENDO wrote: »

Yes, email from soarview.

Is that a Copy & Paste of the text?

I honestly find it difficulty to believe that, it is so wrong ..... if yes then things are much worse than I thought

FRIENDO

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Is that a Copy & Paste of the text?

I honestly find it difficulty to believe that, it is so wrong ..... if yes then things are much worse than I thought

Copy & Paste, Yes

Pm me your email address, I will send you the email

jjf1974

The Cush wrote: »

All Saorview calls and emails are handled by an external service provider now I believe. RTÉ published a tender for Saorview contact centre services last Nov, so that probably explains the email.

Perhaps English is not the first language of the staff in this agency.

Johnboy1951

FRIENDO wrote: »

Copy & Paste, Yes

Pm me your email address, I will send you the email

No need ..... all I wanted was confirmation that it was copy & paste ....... thank you for confirming

As 'Onthe3rdDay' posted, it is shocking that this was sent out in their name!

FRIENDO

Full Email from June, Saorview reply in Bold.

“Dear Sir/Madam,

Will RTE One HD, TV3, 3e and UTV Ireland on launch be broadcasted on the Saorsat platform ?

Thank you and Kind Regards,

(My Name)”

“Hello (My Name)

Thank you for contacting SAORVIEW

TV3 and 3e are currently on Saorsat due to a decision by TV3 Group not to have the stations carried on Saorsat, I have no information as to weather or not they are planning to change this decision.
UTV Ireland are currently still in talks as to whether or not the will be broadcasting on SAROVIEW and Saorsat.

Regards
(1st Saorview Rep)

SAORVIEW Support”

“Hi (1st Saorview Rep),

Thanks for your reply.

Will RTE 1 HD broadcast on Saorsat, at the moment we only get standard RTE 1, I believe RTE 1 HD is on Saorview.

Kind Regards,

(My Name)”

“Hi (My Name)

Eventually RTE 1 and 2 will be upscaled to HD on the Saorsat system as of yet we do not have a time line

Kind regards
( 2nd Saorview Rep)”

“Thanks (2nd Saorview Rep)”

FRIENDO

I had to ask the question about RTE 1 HD on Saorsat a second time.
They answered telling me that
"Eventually RTE 1 and 2 will be upscaled to HD on the Saorsat system"

We already have RTE 2 HD on Saorsat!

I'm starting to think that Saorview/RTE don't give a Shix! about the Saorsat platform.

For people who are unable to get the Saorview signal or like myself who can only get part of the service, its just not good enough.

FRIENDO

On a lighter note, I did some adjustements with the dish yesterday and now picking up a much improved signal Quality level approx 97%.
In the past I was only getting approx 73% and loosing Saorsat in heavy rain.
Hopefully I have an improvement now.

FRIENDO

RTE/Saorsat strike again :mad:

The hurling all Ireland final moved to RTE One which is in standard digital.

Why have we not got RTE One HD on Saorsat yet?

Cantona's Collars

FRIENDO wrote: »

RTE/Saorsat strike again :mad:

The hurling all Ireland final moved to RTE One which is in standard digital.

Why have we not got RTE One HD on Saorsat yet?

This might work:D

Elmo

Bad decision to move the Hurling to RTÉ ONE as its HD service isn't fully roled out , Sky customers if they had Sky Sports would have moved.

FRIENDO

Elmo wrote: »

Bad decision to move the Hurling to RTÉ ONE as its HD service isn't fully roled out , Sky customers if they had Sky Sports would have moved.

Yes and it shows how RTE demote the All Ireland Hurling Final to its standard digital channel on satellite.
Sky in its wisdom put the final on SKY Sports One HD.

Only a couple of weeks ago an RTE pundit Joe Brolly was complaining that RTE did not have the rights to show a qualifier game.
It wont be a suprise if RTE loose more GAA games to SKY and Setanta.