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RTE: Pilot en route to Belfast lost control after artificial arm detached

[Deleted User]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0814/636999-pilot-flybe-belfast/

Details of what happened at Belfast's City Airport when a pilot lost control of a passenger plane after his artificial arm became detached are published in an Air Accidents investigation this morning.

The incident took place in February when a Flybe flight from Birmingham, with 47 passengers on board, was approaching the runway in gusty conditions.

The pilot was flying the plane manually when his prosthetic lower left arm became detached from the controller mechanism.

He opted to use his right arm rather than get his co-pilot to take control.

The plane landed heavily but no-one was hurt and the aircraft was not damaged.

Obviously he passes all the requirements to be a commercial pilot, and I assume strength is no longer a requirement to control a modern fly by wire aircraft. But, there has to be a point where a disability has to be taken into account, discuss.

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squonk

Sounds like a slightly more dramatic equivalent of sneezing while driving tbh. Nothing to see here. Move along now!

PukkaStukka

Good lessons learned here, but kudos to Flybee for not only employing this gent but also sticking by him. Especially so in an industry where loyalty can sometime be in short supply.

Delta Kilo

Im surprised the F/O didnt lend him a hand...

*Grabs coat*

folbotcar

The headlines as ever are misleading. They give the impression that his arm detached from his body. In fact it detached from the controls. I was going to say 'finger trouble' but obviously not.

I would assume lessons have been learned from this, no doubt his personal checklist now includes, 'Arm now locked and checked'.

I wonder what the story behind it is. Presumably he was a pilot before he lost his arm? Otherwise I don't see how you would get through any medical.

Alaba320

Delta Kilo wrote: »

Im surprised the F/O didnt lend him a hand...

*Grabs coat*

Yeah, not funny. I'm sure this guy has heard all those jokes before and been bullied for his disability for long enough. Don't need some smartarse behind a keyboard try to make more jokes.

Aerohead

Over on PPRUNE they are making the odd joke, on a serious note they say after this incident he will not get a class A medical cert again so his flying days could be over in the commercial world.

donkey balls

One of my aul crowds pilot lost their lower limb some years ago in an accident,They went through rehab had a prosthetic limb fitted and after some serious FAA medical examinations got the all clear to fly again.

Franticfrank

That could have cost Flybe an arm and a leg. Seriously though, a lack of a limb shouldn't halt someone flying - look at famous aviators like Douglas Bader.

Aerohead

Franticfrank wrote: »

That could have cost Flybe an arm and a leg. Seriously though, a lack of a limb shouldn't halt someone flying - look at famous aviators like Douglas Bader.

Douglas Bader did not fly 80 passengers in a commercial jet and it was during the war, they needed everyone flying they could get.

FR85

Taca Flight 110 comes to mind, the Captain only had one eye and did an amazing job of landing a 737 on a grassy marsh, one engine change and the aircraft took off again with no damage.

Again, scary as it maybe I'd imagine the crew were in full control.

Irish Steve

While there will have been some pucker factor moments, it should not have been an issue as such. There are 2 crew, and both are fully qualified to handle the aircraft on their own if the need should arise. The timing was not helpful, if they were in the flare for landing, both crew would have been fully occupied with their designated tasks, and the only other option at that late stage of the approach would have been a go around, which would have been equally as challenging, the option for the F/O to take over at that point and continue the landing was not an option as such, given the close ground proximity.

A long time ago, when I was training at Shoreham, the instructor I was with was providing supervision to a trainee who had been born with improperly formed fingers, probably due to thalidomide, and the CAA had placed a requirement on him that he had to do extra flying before he could get his unrestricted licence, which he was doing around the time when I was there.

There are a number of pilots (mainly operating in the States) with more severe issues, (and it's probably realistic to say that the people concerned would not regard themselves as "disabled") and some of them have commercial licences. There are several people with licences with no arms, and I've seen a documentary about a commercial pilot who has no muscle control below the waist, and he flies small aircraft, so there's no requirement for a second crew member.

A member of my family is in a wheelchair as a result of an accident, and he has a full unrestricted licence to fly microlights, and the bottom line is that while a commercial licence has a higher medical requirement, after that, it makes little difference if the aircraft is a single seater or an A380, you're either capable of flying it safely, or you're not.

If he's got his Class A, then there should not be any reason to refuse to renew it, his medical condition is unchanged, the problem that occurred was a mechanical issue, and you may be sure that those issues will have been well and truly looked at by the CAA before his Class A was issued, or when it was first renewed if his injury happened after he's got his licence, as he would have been grounded for a period after the accident in that case.

There was clearly an issue that had not arisen before, which I am sure will have been comprehensively reviewed by all concerned post event, and there have probably been either changes or adjustments made to prevent a repeat, so in that respect, it's now history and not really worth raking over in much detail.

There have been , and will be in future, much more serious and life threatening incidents, in the overall scale of things, while this was reportable, which is why the media are aware of it, it's minor, the aircraft wasn't damaged, and no one was injured.

I'd not have any worries about flying as a passenger with that captain, and if I met him, I'd probably not even be aware that he has a prosthetic hand. It would be a great shame if his future career was affected by this incident.

jackal

Irish Steve wrote: »

While there will have been some pucker factor moments, it should not have been an issue as such. [...snip...]
There have been , and will be in future, much more serious and life threatening incidents, in the overall scale of things, while this was reportable, which is why the media are aware of it, it's minor, the aircraft wasn't damaged, and no one was injured.

I'd not have any worries about flying as a passenger with that captain, and if I met him, I'd probably not even be aware that he has a prosthetic hand. It would be a great shame if his future career was affected by this incident.

That's all fine and well, because in this case nobody was hurt. If the plane had landed more heavily and there were injuries or deaths, I doubt that the public would be as accepting of an accident caused solely by the fact that the pilot flying physically did not have two arms.

No blame on the pilot himself, he was cleared to fly and it had worked countless times in the past without a problem.

I would have a problem with the authority that certified the pilot to fly commercial aircraft. I am all for wheelchairs on buses, etc, but I really don't want to be flown by someone that has to rely on a custom made piece of equipment to maintain control of an aircraft. There is already enough moving parts to worry about on a commercial aircraft, you try and reduce the probabilities as much as possible.

Locker10a

Poor guy, can you imagine being him, and seeing stuff about you in the news everywhere! I feel really bad for him

Hope he continues flying and has a prosperous career

Beano

Aerohead wrote: »

Douglas Bader did not fly 80 passengers in a commercial jet and it was during the war, they needed everyone flying they could get.

I've read that it actually made him a better fighter pilot. It made handling G in tight turns easier. No idea if that is actually true or not.

suasdaguna2

I genuinely didn't know that prosthetic limbs were allowable. It's all very PC the replies here and yes I have utmost respect for the individual involved but jackal asks very fair and downright honest questions if this ended up as a prang.

man98

This pilot was extremely experienced, perfectly able at flying and could land a plane with one arm, many pilots make hard landings from time to time. It was too late to hand over controls to co-pilot and I'd feel completely comfortable with him flying a plane I was on.

Tangey99

man98 wrote: »

This pilot was extremely experienced, perfectly able at flying and could land a plane with one arm, many pilots make hard landings from time to time. It was too late to hand over controls to co-pilot and I'd feel completely comfortable with him flying a plane I was on.

Well, I am not a pilot, and have no knowledge of such things. However being able to land with one arm, is a little like saying you can drive with one hand.

Yes you have to take your hand of the wheel for gear changing, handbrake etc etc, but at all other times you are supposed to drive with 2 hands on the wheel, and one assumes anyone with just one arm has an adapted car which is appropriate. I appreciate that unlike driving, MOST of flying does not require hands on control, but I cannot see how a pilot with only 1 real arm can have the same range of abilities to cope with all circumstances that can happen in abnormal takeoff/landing/emergency situations.

A pilot might be perfectly capable of nailing a landing 100 out of 100 times using 1 hand, but you can be sure that when that one-in-a tenthousand nosewheel blowout on landing happens, the first reaction of an able bodied pilot would be to put the 2nd hand on the wheel (assuming it has a traditional yoke, and not a joystick).

Personally, I'm not sure I am all that comfortable with a pilot with only 1 real arm. Most would assume their pilot has two arms !

And up thread there is chat of a prune discussion saying the pilot might not be able to commercially fly again. Logic would suggest if they are making this decision post-incident, it really should have been made pre-incident, and should be a standard requirement.

Amadeus 2014

Tangey99 wrote: »

Well, I am not a pilot, and have no knowledge of such things. However being able to land with one arm, is a little like saying you can drive with one hand.

So given the bolded part perhaps you aren't qualified to comment?

Flying a car and driving are not as closely related as you would think. Physical control of the aircraft is of course a huge part of it but it's far from the only element - to put it into context there are 10 or so exams to pass to get your PPL and only one of those tests your physical ability to fly the plane. Personally I'd rather be flown by a pilot with a physical disability and hundreds (or thousands) of hours in the air than by a substantially less experienced but entirely able bodied pilot. Put another way better to have one hand and a good brain than two hands and no idea how to use them!

In this particular case it sounds like a minor equipment failure through either the equipment itself or pilot error and that was safely saved by some quick thinking by the pilot in command (no doubt with the benefit of experience and a cool head, exactly why I'd rather fly with an experienced disabled pilot). I'm sure that steps have been taken to prevent it happening in the future so it's an interesting story but not something you should worry about, I'd expect .

Tangey99

Amadeus 2014 wrote: »

So given the bolded part perhaps you aren't qualified to comment?

As a passenger I think I'm entitled to comment on my unease of having a one-armed pilot, and my general assertion that most passengers would assume their pilot had two arms. You don't have to be a qualified pilot to know that two arms have to be better than one.

Personally I'd rather be flown by a pilot with a physical disability and hundreds (or thousands) of hours in the air than by a substantially less experienced but entirely able bodied pilot. Put another way better to have one hand and a good brain than two hands and no idea how to use them!

I don't disagree with anything there.

I'm sure that steps have been taken to prevent it happening in the future so it's an interesting story but not something you should worry about, I'd expect .

If the thread on prune (where people are qualified to comment) is anything to go on, they suggest the prevention might be to stop the pilot flying, and logic would indicate that if that is indeed the course of action, it should have been taken prior to an incident.

jackal

Amadeus 2014 wrote: »

So given the bolded part perhaps you aren't qualified to comment?

Flying a car and driving are not as closely related as you would think. Physical control of the aircraft is of course a huge part of it but it's far from the only element - to put it into context there are 10 or so exams to pass to get your PPL and only one of those tests your physical ability to fly the plane. Personally I'd rather be flown by a pilot with a physical disability and hundreds (or thousands) of hours in the air than by a substantially less experienced but entirely able bodied pilot. Put another way better to have one hand and a good brain than two hands and no idea how to use them!

In this particular case it sounds like a minor equipment failure through either the equipment itself or pilot error and that was safely saved by some quick thinking by the pilot in command (no doubt with the benefit of experience and a cool head, exactly why I'd rather fly with an experienced disabled pilot). I'm sure that steps have been taken to prevent it happening in the future so it's an interesting story but not something you should worry about, I'd expect .

Commercial pilots are there to fly paying passengers from A to B as safely as possible, so everyone who puts their lives in the hands (no pun intended) of a commercial pilot is qualified to comment on the suitability or ability of that person. I would question the wisdom of certifying such a pilot to fly paying people safely from A to B.

The story clearly says that the pilot lost the ability to control both the attitude and the speed at the same time. They are two separate controls requiring two limbs to operate.

I disagree that this pilot showed experience and a cool head. He decided to choose one thing to control and hope for the best.

The quote that in the flying pilots opinion the second pilot was not prepared to take over would worry me also at such a critical phase of flight.

What if the pilot flying instead clutched his chest and started having a heart attach, fainted, had a sneezing fit while in the flare? Why did the pilot not just call for a go around, get some altitude and fix his prosthetic attachment.

There are lots of questions about this and they don't seem to be being asked because:
a) nobody was injured.
b) Political correctness where we pretend you don't need two fully functional limbs to fly an aircraft.

ProfessorPlum

Agree with a lot of the above. Granting a licence to a one armed pilot is a matter for the CAA, and one which I'm sure they've considered in great detail. I'm sure he has a lot of endorsements on his licence regarding extra safeguards, multi pilot ops only, adaptor to fix the limb to the controls etc. My main concern regarding this story is that he chose not to hand control over to the F/O. Flying without control over aircraft attitude and power setting is not being in control. If he didn't think his F/O would be capable of taking over in that situation, then he shouldn't have been flying with that F/O in my opinion. I think that was a poor decision. No doubt the CAA will/have made recommendations around the use and adaptation of the prosthetic limb, which, unless something fundamental has changed shouldn't result in this pilot losing his licence.

man98

I believe this pilot had about 5,000 flying hours, although unsure how much experience he has with either a Q400 or Flybe. But seeing as most of Flybe's flights are in or around an hour long, I would say he may have landed around 1,000 times and this is the first occasion it hapoened, from now on it'll be a pre-flight check apparently. The chances of this recurring are incredibly slim.

airbuspilot

[quote="ProfessorPlum;9174 My main concern regarding this story is that he chose not to hand control over to the F/O. Flying without control over aircraft attitude and power setting is not being in control. If he didn't think his F/O would be capable of taking over in that situation, then he shouldn't have been flying with that F/O in my opinion. I think that was a poor decision.[/quote]

He wouldn't have had time to hand over control to the fo as the detachment occurred while the pilot was flaring which would be just seconds before the plane lands.

ProfessorPlum

Course he would. Every pilot should be trained to fly a go around from a baulked landing. The alternative is to let the airplane land itself. Luckily there was plenty of runway for the aircraft type involved in this case, but landing g performance figures are predicated on landing at a required speed - no on some random speed at touchdown with power on, which was the case here.

suasdaguna2

In my career of over 30 years flying everything from turbo props to heavies, I have never come across a one armed pilot. How can you feel what the aircraft is doing via a prosthetic limb? I don't buy it period. Here comes another warning from the mods re speaking my mind again.