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discovered a family secret. should i tell?

WILL NEVER LOG OFF

I have a very religious grandmother, now in her 80s and suffering from early dementia.

I wanted to know when she married my late Grandad, because she never told us and seemed confused on dates. I looked up her details in the British Births, Deaths & Marriages records, because she had moved there in 1945, later met my late Grandad and had their children there, before the family returned home to Ireland in 1969.

It turns out my grandmother was unmarried when her first son was born in 1954. He was born in an area which was far from where she and her then partner (my Grandad) lived, which may indicate some sort of home for unwed mothers.

I also discovered that some years after marriage , my grandmother gave birth to a son whom I have never heard of. Presumably he died in infancy, as nobody ever mentioned this.

Here's my problem.

Do I tell my family the truth before my granny dies? Should I ever tell them?

She has obviously kept this a secret for good reason. I want to respect that. On the other hand it explains so much of her alienation from her deeply religious family. It also explains, in part, her apparent shame when my mother became pregnant before marriage. I think my family see her as a very difficult woman, but if they knew the truth of what she experienced they might see her differently .

Help!

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UCDVet

When I was little, I read a book called, 'Everyone Poops'. Doesn't mean we want the world to know when we're pooping. Doesn't mean we want people to see us while we do it.

Everyone has *a lot* of 'secrets'. Most of them aren't even unusual or unexpected. Infidelity is a common thing. Sex out of wedlock is a common thing. Religious people who commit sin....common thing too.

Unless you've got a good reason for why, I don't see any point in sharing it.

Cee-Jay-Cee

It's not your secret to tell. Mind your own bloody business and not others.

Tail Docker

I was hoping that she'd been a famous bank-robber or rode Ghandi tbh.

Doesn't strike me as much of a "family secret". More of a vaguely interesting bit of someones history.

Fat Christy

WILL NEVER LOG OFF wrote: »

I have a very religious grandmother, now in her 80s and suffering from early dementia.

I wanted to know when she married my late Grandad, because she never told us and seemed confused on dates. I looked up her details in the British Births, Deaths & Marriages records, because she had moved there in 1945, later met my late Grandad and had their children there, before the family returned home to Ireland in 1969.

It turns out my grandmother was unmarried when her first son was born in 1954. He was born in an area which was far from where she and her then partner (my Grandad) lived, which may indicate some sort of home for unwed mothers.

I also discovered that some years after marriage , my grandmother gave birth to a son whom I have never heard of. Presumably he died in infancy, as nobody ever mentioned this.

Here's my problem.

Do I tell my family the truth before my granny dies? Should I ever tell them?

She has obviously kept this a secret for good reason. I want to respect that. On the other hand it explains so much of her alienation from her deeply religious family. It also explains, in part, her apparent shame when my mother became pregnant before marriage. I think my family see her as a very difficult woman, but if they knew the truth of what she experienced they might see her differently .

Help!

For the sake of your grandmother, please do not say anything until she passes away. If she wanted the family to know, she would have said something.

She probably feels guilt and shame over what happened. As a non religious person, sometimes it's hard to comprehend that. I mean no one nowadays cares if people have kids outside marriage but in them days they did. In my opinion, I would let sleeping dogs lie until she has passed away at least.

I know you feel like you're between a rock and a hard place. Her life experiences wouldn't necessarily have made her a difficult woman. I was raised by a lady with a deeply disturbing past whose mother was a religious nut and she raised me lovingly and never imposed religion on me. She was probably the most liberal and open-minded person I have ever met. The information that you have unearthed doesn't automatically justify your grandmothers 'difficult' persona, as harsh as that may sound.

Pablodreamsofnew

What are you doing sniffing around your grandmas past? Don't you wait for them to die before you do that?

I think it would be really unfair to question her in her 'mental state' that she is in.

What kind of person are you?!

And what has religion got to do with it?

Unknown Soldier

Go on the internet.

TELL EVERYONE!.

WILL NEVER LOG OFF

MrsYelnekoff wrote: »

What are you doing sniffing around your grandmas past? Don't you wait for them to die before you do that?

I think it would be really unfair to question her in her 'mental state' that she is in.

What kind of person are you?!

And what has religion got to do with it?

My Uncle turns 60 in November. We figured this year might be my grandparents 60th wedding anniversary. We wanted to celebrate it with her but my grandmother was having trouble remembering the date. We assumed it was the dementia. I dont think i'm a bad person for trying to do the right thing.

Skerries

maybe talk to your mother about it and let her decide whether to have it discussed within the family

lulu1

Let sleeping dogs lay whats the point raking up something that happened 60 years ago its over and done with

Supergurrier

Turn the other cheek...

BBDBB

its not your secret to tell

if others in your family are curious then they can do the same research you did and find out the truth the same way you did

let the old woman keep her dignity

diomed

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

Go on the internet.
TELL EVERYONE!.

Yeah, you don't come across a nugget of gossip like this every day. Tell everyone, but be sure to tell them to keep it a secret.

hatrickpatrick

Religious issues in families are basically tinder boxes waiting to go off. Every chance they won't start an inferno, but an equal chance that they will.
Is it a risk you're willing to take, considering especially that you will bear a huge amount of the fallout?

Doc

Why don't you talk to her about it? Shes not dead yet.

She's the only one that can give you the true context of what happened you seem to be basing quite a lot of your opinion on this on speculation rather than simply asking the woman.

If it was me I'd never say a word about it unless I had the full story.

pablo128

My missus's aunt is in her 70's. The problem is, when she met her husband, she told her husband she was 10 years younger. And is still under the illusion he thinks that. He knows how old she is. He's told us. Their daughters know about it too.
She even refused to have a '60th'. She made up some tale about going on holiday. It's kind of a running joke in her family.
What's to be gained from letting her know that she's fooling no-one? Absolutely nothing. The same with your gran. I don't think you're a bad person for wanting to share the secret. You just need to think of the bigger picture.

feargale

Dapics wrote: »

Quite odd how she's deeply religious given the context of the question tbh.

takamichinoku

Don't think the point would necessarily be in telling her anything, but other members could need some blanks filled in to be able to accept that there were reasons beyond just being some super religious sort that made her do unagreeable things, that the fact her siblings cut her off or whatever was possible more a sign of them being awful than her being a nut.

Not knowing the full situation, it's absolutely impossible to say they must tell at some point, fully agree with that. Don't see there being much issue in info emerging after she's passed though and there could be some circumstances where it would be beneficial to their mam or whatever. Don't think the OP seems like they'd toss out the info on a whim anyways, they likely wouldn't have resorted to an internet forum to talk about it if they wanted to do that.

WILL NEVER LOG OFF

Doc wrote: »

Why don't you talk to her about it? Shes not dead yet.

She's the only one that can give you the true context of what happened you seem to be basing quite a lot of your opinion on this on speculation rather than simply asking the woman.

If it was me I'd never say a word about it unless I had the full story.

the early stages of dementia are already making her paranoid. she sometimes thinks all her children are against her, crazy, silly things. She still gets on fine with me and my siblings so i'd like her to keep that.

A few people have pointed out how small an issue this is. I cant ignore that and cant ignore the benefits my granny would get from someone finally knowing her past and for the first time in her life, loving her more for it.

i know this idea is not what most people suggested but imagine this was your granny. if she did some tiny, irrelevant mistake and her parents and siblings lashed out at her for it, i think most people wouldn't see her unfounded shame as a good reason to stay quiet. Even if only for the reason her siblings cant be allowed act the 'bigger men' at her funeral, or themselves get off the hook, if this is the reason they stopped talking, or if they abandoned her.

thanks again for the advice guys but i think some family members, at least, have a right to be told.

takamichinoku

WILL NEVER LOG OFF wrote: »

cant ignore the benefits my granny would get from someone finally knowing her past and for the first time in her life, loving her more for it.

What exactly are the benefits she'd get there? if it's others loving her more, that'd require her to be willing to accept that love too and she's got it pretty hardwired into her that it's a bad thing so I can't imagine she would, she'd just be ashamed. Her siblings aren't going to be swayed by a few relatives they're not that in touch with thinking they're ****s too.

You're reasoning there isn't great at all.

_Whimsical_

takamichinoku wrote: »

What exactly are the benefits she'd get there? if it's others loving her more, that'd require her to be willing to accept that love too and she's got it pretty hardwired into her that it's a bad thing so I can't imagine she would, she'd just be ashamed. Her siblings aren't going to be swayed by a few relatives they're not that in touch with thinking they're ****s too.

You're reasoning there isn't great at all.

I don't agree at all with you, I think the OPs reasoning is completely sound. He/she feels their granny was misunderstood by her children in them feeling that she was responsible for the rift with her siblings and that knowing this fact might change that. Also the granny would never need to know that they know, confronting her at that stage of her life would be cruel but they might be able to be kinder to her and more compassionate in their general dealings with her.

It's a really difficult decision. My first instinct was no don't do it because she had kept it for so long but I also see your point. I think when someone is in the grips of a horrible condition like this and at the end of a good life it is understandable to want them to have full acceptance and to be met with full compassion for all the pain they've ever suffered , it probably feels like it might be some small justice for her that she be understood.

I think if I was you if tell the wisest of your mum's kids, the most discrete one that people are likely to trust and let them decide what to do. I say that because you don't really know how news like this night affect a family dynamic. The circumstances of your uncles birth might have affected his relationship with your granny. Knowing the truth might be the missing piece of the puzzle for him that explains why there was tension between them or why he was a favourite etc. You just never know if news like that will have unexpected reverberations for someone in your family. One of her kids might be better able to judge how everyone would react.

I think you sound like you feel you're denying your granny a chance for something important and positive. It might weigh on your conscience a long time if you do nothing. I say ignore people on the internet, myself included, and go with your own gut. You're the one that has to live with the fallout.

Czarcasm

WILL NEVER LOG OFF wrote: »

the early stages of dementia are already making her paranoid. she sometimes thinks all her children are against her, crazy, silly things. She still gets on fine with me and my siblings so i'd like her to keep that.

If you want to keep it like that OP, then, as hard as this is for you to understand right now, you're best keeping this information to yourself. If you could find it, anyone else can find it as it's information in the public domain. The thing is, only your granny knows the full story, only she knows the truth, and she's lived with that thought all her life - "knowing" that nobody else knows. If you approach her with this information, no matter how sensitive you are about it, you'll hurt her, because now she'll know that someone else knows. Think about something you've done that you wouldn't want anyone else knowing. Now imagine if someone were to confront you with that information. You'd have to re-live it all again. Now imagine if you carried that secret for as long as your grandmother has done. You could turn her world upside down to ease your own conscience.

A few people have pointed out how small an issue this is. I cant ignore that and cant ignore the benefits my granny would get from someone finally knowing her past and for the first time in her life, loving her more for it.

This is no 'small issue' OP. You're talking about shaking your family tree up at the roots and causing massive upheaval for your grandmother. If this was a small issue to her, she'd have told you already. She hasn't. It doesn't matter whether you or anyone else thinks it's a 'small issue', to your grandmother, it's something she has had to deal with her whole life since that moment. You've only just found out, but for your grandmother, as you quite rightly point out - it may have shaped her perspective on a whole lot of things in her life. To have all that laid out in front of her by someone she feels close to, she could go the completely opposite way to the way you're thinking.

Can you not just love her more anyway?

I know this idea is not what most people suggested but imagine this was your granny. if she did some tiny, irrelevant mistake and her parents and siblings lashed out at her for it, i think most people wouldn't see her unfounded shame as a good reason to stay quiet. Even if only for the reason her siblings cant be allowed act the 'bigger men' at her funeral, or themselves get off the hook, if this is the reason they stopped talking, or if they abandoned her.

OP all due respect but this just sounds like you're the one that isn't thinking about your grandmother. It sounds more to me at least like you want her immediate family to pay for what you seem to think was the reason they stopped talking to her or as you put it - "if they abandoned her". What if it isn't? What if there was another reason completely?

This isn't some "tiny irrelevant mistake", and your grandmothers shame isn't unfounded, not in her mind. Do you honestly think in your grandmothers compromised mental state that you're going to help her feel relieved by dragging something up that she thought you didn't know? Did you even stop to think that she might be even more ashamed if she knows that you now know? You're not going to change the mindset of a lifetime OP over a couple of cups of tea and biscuits. Her immediate family, your immediate family, may not change their mindsets at all either. The only person I can see benefitting from the disclosure of this information OP is you, and that would only relieve you of something weighing heavily on your mind. For everyone else, there's every likelihood that nothing will change, and the person who will come off the worst of it will be your grandmother. I don't mean to guilt trip you, but if this doesn't go the way you see it going, can you live with that for the rest of your life?

thanks again for the advice guys but i think some family members, at least, have a right to be told.

I would urge you OP, for the sake of those family members you care about, that you give this course of action more thought, give yourself time to come to terms with the idea first, because right now I think you're actually still in shock yourself and trying to process it. If you truly believed this was a "tiny irrelevant mistake", you wouldn't be trying your damnest to play it down so much, and if you truly believe it was a tiny, irrelevant mistake, then what does it matter if you don't tell anyone and keep it to yourself?

Unless of course you're all too aware that it's not a tiny irrelevant mistake, and it's disclosure would have serious repercussions for your whole family and all your relatives?

You might think some family members have a right to be told, but that's not your decision to make. If your grandmother wanted them to know, she'd have told them. You'd only be hurting a lot more people than you think you're healing if you disclose this information. If the rest of your relatives cared about it as much as you do, they'd have made it their business to be aware of it by now, but they too may have decided to keep it to themselves.

takamichinoku

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

I don't agree at all with you, I think the OPs reasoning is completely sound. He/she feels their granny was misunderstood by her children in them feeling that she was responsible for the rift with her siblings and that knowing this fact might change that. Also the granny would never need to know that they know, confronting her at that stage of her life would be cruel but they might be able to be kinder to her and more compassionate in their general dealings with her.

Read back on what I was saying earlier, I personally, with my mam and my siblings, would tell them but I'd be aware there'd be a strong level of caution toward actually telling my gran, a different family could erupt and want to address whatever thing immediately with the auld one. I thought that final message there seemed to be implying bringing it up with her as the main factor so that she could know what (may have) happened her was wrong (looks like I may have misread something there btw, I'm undoubtedly not going to read it better at 0430 though

), whereas I think letting the children have a chance to spend some time with their mam while having a greater understanding of her would be the key benefit, if I'm missing some crucial thing from my mam's past about why she was so distant from day one with me and, especially, my younger brother, I'd rather hear about it now than after she's gone; don't really care about her wishes in the matter either cos of [reasons] but I wouldn't and haven't confronted her on things I've found out that I know would just shame her.
The stuff about sticking it to the siblings read a bit badly for me too, a lot of it read wrong....

So yeah, I've actually been agreeing with a fair bit of your post there, I think. I'm becoming more incoherent the older I get.

Pablodreamsofnew

WILL NEVER LOG OFF wrote: »

My Uncle turns 60 in November. We figured this year might be my grandparents 60th wedding anniversary. We wanted to celebrate it with her but my grandmother was having trouble remembering the date. We assumed it was the dementia. I dont think i'm a bad person for trying to do the right thing.

(It turns out my grandmother was unmarried when her first son was born in 1954. He was born in an area which was far from where she and her then partner (my Grandad) lived, which may indicate some sort of home for unwed mothers.

I also discovered that some years after marriage , my grandmother gave birth to a son whom I have never heard of. Presumably he died in infancy, as nobody ever mentioned this.

^That is a lot of detailed from just a marriage cert...............

CaraMay

WILL NEVER LOG OFF wrote: »

the early stages of dementia are already making her paranoid. she sometimes thinks all her children are against her, crazy, silly things. She still gets on fine with me and my siblings so i'd like her to keep that.

A few people have pointed out how small an issue this is. I cant ignore that and cant ignore the benefits my granny would get from someone finally knowing her past and for the first time in her life, loving her more for it..

thanks again for the advice guys but i think some family members, at least, have a right to be told.

Op I really don't think you realise how Distressing this could be for yor grandmother in her final (coherent) months. It's not a small issue for her. It's a massive issue and could cause her untold trauma. Who exactly has a 'right' to be told and why?

CaraMay

takamichinoku wrote: »

Read back on what I was saying earlier, I personally, with my mam and my siblings, would tell them but I'd be aware there'd be a strong level of caution toward actually telling my gran, a different family could erupt and want to address whatever thing immediately with the auld one. I thought that final message there seemed to be implying bringing it up with her as the main factor so that she could know what (may have) happened her was wrong (looks like I may have misread something there btw, I'm undoubtedly not going to read it better at 0430 though ), whereas I think letting the children have a chance to spend some time with their mam while having a greater understanding of her would be the key benefit, if I'm missing some crucial thing from my mam's past about why she was so distant from day one with me and, especially, my younger brother, I'd rather hear about it now than after she's gone; don't really care about her wishes in the matter either cos of [reasons] but I wouldn't and haven't confronted her on things I've found out that I know would just shame her.
The stuff about sticking it to the siblings read a bit badly for me too, a lot of it read wrong....

So yeah, I've actually been agreeing with a fair bit of your post there, I think. I'm becoming more incoherent the older I get.

You don't appear to have the life experience to handle this information and I feel sorry for your grandmother. Is her husband alive? If not then why would you be celebrating a 60th wedding anniversary?

WILL NEVER LOG OFF

Czarcasm wrote: »

If you approach her with this information, no matter how sensitive you are about it, you'll hurt her, because now she'll know that someone else knows.

yes I agree but I am planning on only telling my mother and one or maybe two of my uncles. There would be no point in ever confronting my grandmother with this, since she is the only person ashamed about it, and unlikely to be convinced otherwise.

Czarcasm wrote: »

OP all due respect but this just sounds like you're the one that isn't thinking about your grandmother. It sounds more to me at least like you want her immediate family to pay for what you seem to think was the reason they stopped talking to her or as you put it - "if they abandoned her". What if it isn't? What if there was another reason completely?

That's possible. But I know her siblings' opinions on morals, they're ultra Catholic. I can't imagine they had much compassion when my granny was raising a child out of wedlock for almost a year. Also why didnt my late grandad marry her earlier? These are questions my mum and (at least some of) her siblings have a right to ask, not me.

Czarcasm wrote: »

The only person I can see benefitting from the disclosure of this information OP is you, and that would only relieve you of something weighing heavily on your mind. For everyone else, there's every likelihood that nothing will change, and the person who will come off the worst of it will be your grandmother. I don't mean to guilt trip you, but if this doesn't go the way you see it going, can you live with that for the rest of your life?

I have thought about that and yes thats a risk. I'm only telling my mum and the uncles who are closest to my granny. They are the most caring of my grandmothers children. They have put up with a lot of emotional abuse and guilt from my grandmother when younger, especially my mum, and they never turned away from her yet.

WILL NEVER LOG OFF

MrsYelnekoff wrote: »

^That is a lot of detailed from just a marriage cert...............

when you do a search for marriage records, birth records will appear too unless you filter them out. I didn't filter them out. There was one more birth record there than there should have been, withba boy's name, who I assume died.

On the oldest son's birth record, the one born out of marriage, he was born in a town far from where my granny lived in the UK. It doesn't prove anything, but a google search immediately showed an unmarried mother's home in that place. but it's possible my granny was only staying with friends in that town when her baby, my uncle, was born.

CaraMay wrote: »

You don't appear to have the life experience to handle this information and I feel sorry for your grandmother. Is her husband alive? If not then why would you be celebrating a 60th wedding anniversary?

Her husband is dead a few years. it's not unusual to want to mark a major wedding anniversary even where one spouse has died.

jester77

Which is the big secret, that your Uncle was born before your grandparents married or that she had a child that passed away and was never mentioned?

The family probably already know, and I don't see what the big deal here is. The fact that the child who passed away has never been mentioned is probably because it's a painful topic to bring up. I wouldn't go talking about it now given your grandmothers condition, it would be too emotional.

As for your uncle being born before they were married, that's really just a non-story these days.

googled eyes

I'd be careful on letting people know this information about your grandmother. Whilst you may have the best intentions, at the best of times families can be as mad as fuk.

I'm researching my family tree and i have found information about my mothers grandfather. She didn't want me to tell anyone beyond her and her sisters.

You may hope that telling your mother and uncles now may help them understand their mother but they could feel they want more info off her and it could make a bad situation worse

OP have you thought about asking some questions in the genealogy forum ?

WILL NEVER LOG OFF

jester77 wrote: »

Which is the big secret, that your Uncle was born before your grandparents married or that she had a child that passed away and was never mentioned?

the part about the dead child is not especially relevant it just suggests another heartbreak my granny has had to live with, which possibly her children dont know about.

and if they do know they had another little brother, mentioning it wont hurt.

As for them knowing the other secret, I know for a fact my mum, at least, doesn't know the marriage date. She was keen for me to try find it online.

googled eyes wrote: »

You may hope that telling your mother and uncles now may help them understand their mother but they could feel they want more info off her and it could make a bad situation worse

OP have you thought about asking some questions in the genealogy forum ?

i think they'd be as eager as me not to confront her, but again thats another risk.

will check out the genealogy forum, thanks