fits wrote: » Good affordable childcare is so important so that both parents can continue to work. I hope the men reading this thread realise this and make it an issue the government need to deal with as a matter of urgency.
Pawwed Rig wrote: » It is seen as a women's issue because men are prevented by legislation from playing an active role in the parenting and development of their children unless they are very wealthy. The government won't deal with this as it only effects the professional classes which the govt seem to think have unlimited reserves to pay for everything. Blaming men for this seems a little strange.
fits wrote: » Who is blaming men for anything? I am just asking that men recognise it as an important issue for men as well as women. It is in everyones interests that women stay in the workforce and men take more parenting duties eg. Paternity leave. Also how are men prevented by legislation in taking an active role and what has that got to do with my point? I honestly cannot follow your logic at all.
ancapailldorcha wrote: » I was chatted to some of my former colleagues and what they said about the costs of childcare was shocking to say the least. Most Dads I would think recognise that it's an issue that needs examining. Your post specifically said that men should be looking to get it sorted without mentioning women. Traditionally, women are seen as the primary caregivers regarding children which I suppose is the reason most courts prefer to side with Mum in custody settlements and the like.
ancapailldorcha wrote: » . Your post specifically said that men should be looking to get it sorted without mentioning women.
fits wrote: » Also how are men prevented by legislation in taking an active role and what has that got to do with my point? I honestly cannot follow your logic at all.
fits wrote: » Because this is the gentlemens club and while there are lots of threads about fathers rights, there are few enough about childcare, paternity leave etc. Greater opportunities for women in workforce and financially, and better fathers rights and family law are two sides of the same coin.
Pawwed Rig wrote: » There is no paternity leave whereas the woman gets 6 months maternity. This forces a woman to be the primary carer in the early formative stage so makes the decisions on feeding, nap times, play, routines, solid food introduction. This time also gets the baby used to seeing the mother as its primary carer as when Daddy gets in from work it is already bed time for a baby. Hence the myth about a mothers bond being most important to the child (a myth that gets wide credence in legal circles). The only option a man has is to take unpaid leave. Couple the expense of this with the recent reductions in maternity benefit and rising tax burden you can see that men are being prevented from having anything but a peripheral presence in a childs life.
fits wrote: » That's what I said! No argument there. Btw I live and work in Finland. Three of my male colleagues have taken paternity leave in last 18 months. One six months, the others two months. I know it works and I know it even things out. The men can actually take close to 50% duties. Childcare there is max 300 euro a month also and is extremely high quality. All of the mums I know work full time, why wouldn't they. Some difference to Ireland. Don't know how fathers rights are but probably more even as a result.
ancapailldorcha wrote: » Scandinavia is a world leader in gender equality from what I know so it makes sense that they've thought it through. In the UK and Ireland, the traditional model is still semi-prevalent but it is being thankfully eroded.
fits wrote: » As a result of a very strong feminist movement �� But anyway we should all work on this together its in everyone's interests.
ancapailldorcha wrote: » Out of curiosity, what's it like working there? I'd be a bit worried by what some Swedish politicians have been saying regarding "man taxes" and the like but that's another thread.
fits wrote: » Its great. I work in Finland and live in Ireland. In just need to get myself some sort of machine that'll beam me over and back. never heard of man taxes. Sweden is quite different to Finland though. Very different. "Sweden talk like socialists and act like capitalists. Finland talk like capitalists and act like socialists"
Pawwed Rig wrote: » Feel free to start one. Looking at a creche for junior at the moment facing a monthly bill of €1,000. The dole is €814 per month so to make it worth my while going back to work I need to earn a net monthly income of €1,814 (round up to €2,000 when you consider travel and lunches etc). I can see why a parent decides to stay at home.
RainyDay wrote: » You don't get the dole to mind children.
LordNorbury wrote: » The figures don't lie either though.
RainyDay wrote: » They do if you include the social welfare fraud of claiming the dole while looking after children.
Pawwed Rig wrote: » It is only fraud if you are on jobseekers and not actively seeking work. Anyway it is beside the point. The figures were the relevant part.
RainyDay wrote: » It is fraud if you are not available for work. Building the dole into your childminding cost calculations is planning for fraud.
Sleepy wrote: » Or realism. When childcare costs so much and welfare is so high, it's very understandable for people to be on jobseekers yet unavailable for work that pays beneath what they need to replace that welfare level.
LordNorbury wrote: » I don't get the point you are making. Are you saying that it is fraud if you are unemployed and minding your kids at home while claiming social welfare?
