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Protestors disrupting World War 1 commemoration at Glasnevin

Strazdas

Don't know who they are but it is absolutely disgusting to hear at such a sombre event

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K-9

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Why was there a need for the Duke of Kent?

I don't approve of the protests but why do we need a member of the English
Establishment to honour Irish War dead?

I suppose its the British Establishment recognising the Irish dead in an official capacity.

Happyman42

Strazdas wrote: »

A peaceful protest in complete silence outside the gates would have been fine but to heckle a memorial service was an utter disgrace. Maybe somebody should go along and play God Save The Queen at them through a loudspeaker at one of their Easter 1916 commemorations.

This is what angers me about the 'official' approach to commemoration here.
Men and women fought for many reasons in WW1, God Save The Queen or King would have meant nothing to them. And a goodly proportion of Irish enlisted where ultimately conned and gave their lives in absolute vain.(IMO they all did, but that is another argument altogether) Many who survived where repulsed and ashamed afterwards. Many went awol during the war to try and get back to Ireland to do something about what other battalions of the British Army (who they had been fighting for :eek:) where doing.

Our commemorations NEVER reflect that, or the unique reasons for why so many went and they are coming perilously close to again doffing the hats to our former imperialist masters.

In saying that I do not condone what happened today.

TheQuietFella

Tabnabs wrote: »

He was there as President of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC)

That explains it so. Thank you!

AudreyHepburn

FTA69 wrote: »

Why can't we have our symbol to commemorate our own war dead without adopting the poppy which is a statement of support for ALL British troops including those who committed Bloody Sunday a raft of other atrocities?

Why isn't the presence of our own President enough without having to wheel in a British aristocrat, namely a representative of the class that perpetuated all the bloodshed to begin with?

It isn't the commemoration I have a problem with, it's the method of it.

Is the Poppy not, the modern world, a symbol of remembrance of the War Dead generally?

The British are not our enemy or nor people to be sneered at or hated any more.

Our soldiers fought for them and continue to do so. They have every right to be involved and it's wonderful to see this togetherness between the two countries over what was once such a delicate issue.

AudreyHepburn

FTA69 wrote: »

While I don't agree with picketing commemorations, the whole thing is a bit cringe worthy in its own right. World War One was a shameful conflict, a wholesale slaughter of working class people who were killed so an imperial ruling class could contest to see who would rob more in future. There was nothing noble about it, it certainly had little to do with "freedom" considering the British Army went on a rampage in Ireland soon after the war in an effort to crush Irish Independence.

I have no problem commemorating the war dead but I do have a problem when it gets piggy-backed on to the broader narrative of British imperialism being a splendid thing. Why can't we commemorate our own dead without having to do so in front of British imperial trappings such as aristocrats and British Army bands?

Is it not a good thing that our British now want to actively commemorate our war dead?

Our two countries have been at odds long enough. It's time we learned to accept each other's suppport at events like this without sneering and being cynical.

This protest has no place at any Memorial service and the people involved should be ashamed.

They no more represent this country or it's people than the IRA or Sinn Feinn do.

end of the road

Strazdas wrote: »

A peaceful protest in complete silence outside the gates would have been fine but to heckle a memorial service was an utter disgrace. Maybe somebody should go along and play God Save The Queen at them through a loudspeaker at one of their Easter 1916 commemorations.

great idea, the fallout will make an orange order riot look like a disney movey

comongethappy

signostic wrote: »

Was watching it live on RTE News, they chanted when the Duke was making his speech and when our President spoke although I could not make out what they were chanting..

Hard to make out....

Something about being here & being queer & apparently not wanting anymore bears?

[Deleted User]

FTA69 wrote: »

Why can't we have our symbol to commemorate our own war dead without adopting the poppy which is a statement of support for ALL British troops including those who committed Bloody Sunday a raft of other atrocities?

Why isn't the presence of our own President enough without having to wheel in a British aristocrat, namely a representative of the class that perpetuated all the bloodshed to begin with?

It isn't the commemoration I have a problem with, it's the method of it.

And these guys fought for that evil force so why would we want them commemorated under our national flag?

signostic

Was watching it live on RTE News, they chanted when the Duke was making his speech and when our President spoke although I could not make out what they were chanting..

Hunterbiker

Can't see this on the Rte news. Is it?

Strazdas

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Could you make out what they were heckling when Higgins was speaking?

One of their most common chants was "Shame, shame, shame on you". I'm not even sure who they were aiming that at, whether it was at the Duke of Kent or the Irish side for even holding the commemoration.

Fratton Fred

FTA69 wrote: »

At the end of the day, WW1 was fundamentally about a clash of empires and rival ruling classes who used millions of young men as cannon fodder in pursuit of an imperial goal. It was wholesale slaughter on a terrible scale and there was nothing noble or laudable about the goals for which it was fought..

Even more reason to commemorate it then, no?

DEFTLEFTHAND

Strazdas wrote: »

They certainly covered themselves in glory today, even heckling President Higgins as he spoke.

Could you make out what they were heckling when Higgins was speaking?

Strazdas

Patser wrote: »

Drove by their protest twice today. There was only about 20 of them, with Republican Sinn Fein flags and a few 32 County Continuity flags and 1 banner reading 'As long of there's a British presence on Irish soil British Royals are not welcome ' so obviously they were using the Duke if Kent's presence as an excuse.

1st time I drove by they were on the opposite side of the road to the main gates to Glasnevin, the 2nd time trying to
climb the fence, tape flags to it and generally shouting to be heard.

There were Guards at the gate but I'd say they were taking the approach of just keep them out. If they tried arrest them or move them on, that crowd would just scream Garda brutality, peaceful protest etc and feed off the publicity.

And I can guarantee they had zero support from any of the cars in traffic held up there. And surprised that they could be heard at the commemoration due to them being so few in number.

They certainly covered themselves in glory today, even heckling President Higgins as he spoke.

FTA69

Deleted User wrote: »

Why commemorate the war dead at all so?

Why can't we have our symbol to commemorate our own war dead without adopting the poppy which is a statement of support for ALL British troops including those who committed Bloody Sunday a raft of other atrocities?

Why isn't the presence of our own President enough without having to wheel in a British aristocrat, namely a representative of the class that perpetuated all the bloodshed to begin with?

It isn't the commemoration I have a problem with, it's the method of it.

Strazdas

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Why was there a need for the Duke of Kent?

I don't approve of the protests but why do we need a member of the English
Establishment to honour Irish War dead?

I imagine there has to be an acknowledgement they were fighting for the British Empire and technically for the British King at the time (and they would have marched off to war with the Union Jack as their flag).

Tabnabs

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Why was there a need for the Duke of Kent?

I don't approve of the protests but why do we need a member of the English
Establishment to honour Irish War dead?

He was there as President of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC)

FTA69

LordSutch wrote: »

Hurrah, agreed 100% which is exactly why such solemn commemorations take place all over Europe & the world.

Ah ha, I see its the inclusion of any British/Commonwealth symbolism that get to ya!

Errah be quiet you. If you had your way we wouldn't have left the UK in the first place and a lot more Irishmen would be dying needlessly in imperial adventures across the world in the name of misguided patriotism.

As I said above, I have no problem commemorating the Irish dead. It just p*sses me off when it dove-tails into the British narrative of glorious deeds in the service of the Empire and all of that other servile sh*te that gets thrown out every year to try and justify imperialist bloodshed.

DEFTLEFTHAND

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Why was there a need for the Duke of Kent?

I don't approve of the protests but why do we need a member of the English
Establishment to honour Irish War dead?

To represent the side the men fought for.

[Deleted User]

FTA69 wrote: »

I'm aware of that fact yeah; it's the same army that disgraced itself in Ireland numerous times as well as across the world. Personally I think it's bad enough that tens of thousands of Irish men were killed in pursuit of imperial goals without having to have a load of British pomp thrown in on top of it.

Why commemorate the war dead at all so?

TheQuietFella

Strazdas wrote: »

God knows....I'm wondering if it's because the Duke of Kent is present but they were even heckling the President

Why was there a need for the Duke of Kent?

I don't approve of the protests but why do we need a member of the English
Establishment to honour Irish War dead?

LordSutch

FTA69 wrote: »

At the end of the day, WW1 was fundamentally about a clash of empires and rival ruling classes who used millions of young men as cannon fodder in pursuit of an imperial goal. It was wholesale slaughter on a terrible scale and there was nothing noble or laudable about the goals for which it was fought.

Hurrah, agreed 100% which is exactly why such solemn commemorations take place all over Europe & the world.

FTA69 wrote: »

As I said, I have no problem with commemorating the Irish war dead; it's a pretty massive part of our history after all. My main problem is when it latches onto British symbolism such as the poppy, the Union Flag, British aristocrats and the British Army. As far as I'm concerned there's nothing positive about any of that lark and it's something we should be moving away from.

Ah ha, I see its the inclusion of any Allied/British/Commonwealth symbolism that gets to ya!

Suggest you Wake up, get rid of the symbolic berret, and embrace the new 21st century dispensation of Anglo-Irish relations.

Patser

Drove by their protest twice today. There was only about 20 of them, with Republican Sinn Fein flags and a few 32 County Continuity flags and 1 banner reading 'As long of there's a British presence on Irish soil British Royals are not welcome ' so obviously they were using the Duke if Kent's presence as an excuse.

1st time I drove by they were on the opposite side of the road to the main gates to Glasnevin, the 2nd time trying to
climb the fence, tape flags to it and generally shouting to be heard.

There were Guards at the gate but I'd say they were taking the approach of just keep them out. If they tried arrest them or move them on, that crowd would just scream Garda brutality, peaceful protest etc and feed off the publicity.

And I can guarantee they had zero support from any of the cars in traffic held up there. And surprised that they could be heard at the commemoration due to them being so few in number.

Harry Palmr

Any incident that reminds us of what a bunch of cretinous, scuttle****s the Real IRA/Origi etc are is not a bad thing.

FTA69

Deleted User wrote: »

You do realise that they fought for the British Army yeah?

I'm aware of that fact yeah; it's the same army that disgraced itself in Ireland numerous times as well as across the world. Personally I think it's bad enough that tens of thousands of Irish men were killed in pursuit of imperial goals without having to have a load of British pomp thrown in on top of it.

FTA69

At the end of the day, WW1 was fundamentally about a clash of empires and rival ruling classes who used millions of young men as cannon fodder in pursuit of an imperial goal. It was wholesale slaughter on a terrible scale and there was nothing noble or laudable about the goals for which it was fought.

As I said, I have no problem with commemorating the Irish war dead; it's a pretty massive part of our history after all. My main problem is when it latches onto British symbolism such as the poppy, the Union Flag, British aristocrats and the British Army. As far as I'm concerned there's nothing positive about any of that lark and it's something we should be moving away from.

[Deleted User]

FTA69 wrote: »

While I don't agree with picketing commemorations, the whole thing is a bit cringe worthy in its own right. World War One was a shameful conflict, a wholesale slaughter of working class people who were killed so an imperial ruling class could contest to see who would rob more in future. There was nothing noble about it, it certainly had little to do with "freedom" considering the British Army went on a rampage in Ireland soon after the war in an effort to crush Irish Independence.

I have no problem commemorating the war dead but I do have a problem when it gets piggy-backed on to the broader narrative of British imperialism being a splendid thing. Why can't we commemorate our own dead without having to do so in front of British imperial trappings such as aristocrats and British Army bands?

You do realise that they fought for the British Army yeah?

Fratton Fred

FTA69 wrote: »

While I don't agree with picketing commemorations, the whole thing is a bit cringe worthy in its own right. World War One was a shameful conflict, a wholesale slaughter of working class people who were killed so an imperial ruling class could contest to see who would rob more in future. There was nothing noble about it, it certainly had little to do with "freedom" considering the British Army went on a rampage in Ireland soon after the war in an effort to crush Irish Independence.

I have no problem commemorating the war dead but I do have a problem when it gets piggy-backed on to the broader narrative of British imperialism being a splendid thing. Why can't we commemorate our own dead without having to do so in front of British imperial trappings such as aristocrats and British Army bands?

I think you are looking for something that simply isn't there.

LordSutch

FTA69 wrote: »

While I don't agree with picketing commemorations, the whole thing is a bit cringe worthy in its own right. World War One was a shameful conflict, a wholesale slaughter of working class people who were killed so an imperial ruling class could contest to see who would rob more in future. There was nothing noble about it, it certainly had little to do with "freedom" considering the British Army went on a rampage in Ireland soon after the war in an effort to crush Irish Independence.

I have no problem commemorating the war dead but I do have a problem when it gets piggy-backed on to the broader narrative of British imperialism being a splendid thing. Why can't we commemorate our own dead without having to do so in front of British imperial trappings such as aristocrats and British Army bands?

Is this the 1st post with a "hint" of support for the protestors :cool:

I notice you say that "I do have a problem when it gets piggy-backed on to the broader narrative of British imperialism being a splendid thing. Why can't we commemorate our own dead. . ." but of course this is why the ceremony is being held in the middle of the Summer holidays & not during Remembrance week in November, which is the usual excuse for complaint amongst hardline Republicans!

Cold Vapour

Everyone forgets the poor Austria Hungarians and the Ottoman Empire.