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Palestinaisn being slaughtered and a prick with a cowboy hat is on frint page

davmol

So,the isralies had some of their citizens murdered and as usual have to kill 10-20 palestinians for every 1 israelie they lost.Scores of innocents will be murdered including a few littel girls already killed and Garth brooks gets teh headline of each newspaper.

what kind of world is this that a plonker who sings sh1t songs can get the headlines while innocent people are murdered by the Israeli war machine?!1:mad:

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RobertKK

h2005 wrote: »

Out of the 1000 or so killed how many were Hamas?

Can you tell me how many were human shields?
How many had blue eyes?

I don't know, but Hamas doesn't care it even broke a UN humanitarian truce which was to help the people in Gaza and which Israel agreed to.

RobertKK

dav3 wrote: »

Are you sure about that?

The IDF and Israelis wear these t-shirts with pride.

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Mar/Week3/118790/default/v0/15245789-522x293.jpg

http:/http://news.sky.com/story/678761/israeli-army-t-shirts-mock-gaza-killings

So Abu Ghraib represented all of the US army?

mad muffin

dav3 wrote: »

Are you sure about that?

The IDF and Israelis wear these t-shirts with pride.

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Mar/Week3/118790/default/v0/15245789-522x293.jpg

http:/http://news.sky.com/story/678761/israeli-army-t-shirts-mock-gaza-killings

And what exactly does this prove?
Each side and the world over has the same crap. It just proves that they are no different to anyone else, and those that wear this kind of stuff, wear it in bad taste.

This kind of tit for tat is getting boring. Who do you think your going to convince?

mad muffin

There's an easy solution for this conflict.

Forget about getting back settlements, they're gone.

The Arab word unite in the recognition of Israel.

Hamas disband, all weapons are decommissioned.

Israel helps rebuild Gaza, some kind of reparations are payed and a peace treaty signed.

It worked with Egypt and Jordan. Israel and the Palestinians need to let go of the fear and hate, otherwise peace will never happen.

dav3

RobertKK wrote: »

So Abu Ghraib represented all of the US army?

mad muffin wrote: »

And what exactly does this prove?

Ex-soldier and campaigner with Breaking The Silence, Michael Maniken, told Sky News Online this week's revelations suggest a pattern of immoral conduct in the army.

"The army keeps on saying we're talking about a few rotten apples but it seems the army doesn't understand there's a norm in this kind of action," he explained.

"We're hearing about this time and time again and the army seems disconnected from reality."

http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/ Israeli soldiers talk about the occupied territories

bumper234

RobertKK wrote: »

The people of Gaza voted for Hamas. When people do a stupid thing like this, what do they expect the terrorists they elected to do?
It is not the way towards peace.
Hamas are a fundamentalist extremist organisation who will never accept the right of Israel to exist.
They exported men, women and children into Israel with suicide vests and altogether blew up well over 800 Israeli civilians.
Would you allow such a group to build tunnels in now that the wall has stopped the suicide bombers from Gaza?
Would you allow them to send a rocket on average every 10 minutes for weeks now into your country.
Israel to do nothing was not an option.
They just want the rockets stopped and the tunnels into Israel destroyed.

Hamas is responsible for all the deaths in Gaza, if one starts a fight one knows one can't win and one knows will bring death, then they have to accept responsibility for the death of Gazans.
Israel didn't go into Gaza to kill civilians.

So why are they doing such a good job of it?

bumper234

RobertKK wrote: »

I am aware of the settlements in the West Bank.

We are talking about Gaza and Hamas terrorism which started the current conflict.

Hamas didn't start this recent Israeli murder fest though.

NotASheeple

RobertKK wrote: »

I do not see all these anti-Israeli people here condemning....

A common mistake made by the blinkered few. It looks like you don't know the difference between being anti-Zionist and anti-Israeli. I hate Zionism as much as I hate Nazism and that makes me neither anti-Israeli or anti-German.

wendell borton

The thing about who started what is farcical at this stage. There has been atrocities on all side it just adds to the tit for tat circlejerk.

dj jarvis

wprathead wrote: »

RobertKK - I've posted this before on this thread:

Empathising with the Palestinians =/= Supporting Hamas

In truth now there has been Israeli Solidarity demo's all around America and some in UK and Australia.. However not on the same scale or wide range of demographic as the Palestinian Solidarity marches..

That said, my friend's house mate in Philadelphia who is a lovely guy, extremely liberal (we'd great drunken chats about the greatness of the show West Wing, but that a different story) - however since the Gaza bombings started he has been posting extensive Pro-Israel posts on his FB, and has joined the in with "Stand With Israel" marches. He is not the type of person you would expect to support such a bloodbath any where - was extremely strange and sad to see him support such a thing.. He has been following the line off "Israel just defending itself" and "Just targeting weapons".. Basically my point is that Israel has more supporters than you think, even after these atrocities..

i know Israel has support , just nowhere near the support that the Palestinian people do , and with good reason

Nodin

RobertKK wrote: »

The current conflict, the one that arose in the previous few weeks is the result of rockets being fired from Gaza and Hamas terrorists entering Israel via tunnels.
Maybe it is ok to kill Israelis and you only care for Gazans. Hamas cares for none and is following its charter where to die fighting Israel is something to seek in life..

No, the whole nonsense about the tunnels started after.

You'll note that the people of Gaza have to put up with a lot, but they don't have to put up with settlements. What does that say about Israels intentions and what it thinks of the peaceful approach?

john.han

mad muffin wrote: »

There's an easy solution for this conflict.

Forget about getting back settlements, they're gone.

The Arab world unite in the recognition of Israel.

Hamas disband, all weapons are decommissioned.

Israel helps rebuild Gaza, some kind of reparations are payed and a peace treaty signed.

It worked with Egypt and Jordan. Israel and the Palestinians need to let go of the fear and hate, otherwise peace will never happen.

Easy? So is it one state or two? If it's one then would the 5.5 million Palestinians have exactly the same rights as the 7 million Israelis? What do you call the country? Do you introduce a right of return for all those displaced Palestinians over the years?

If it's two states where is the border, surely you recognise that the Palestinians need at least the 1967 border considering the size of their population. Which means Israelis abandoning all the illegal settlements?

DamagedTrax

john.han wrote: »

surely you recognise that the Palestinians need at least the 1967 border considering the size of their population. Which means Israelis abandoning all the illegal settlements?

this is why i cant see any solution to this at all

mad muffin

john.han wrote: »

Easy? So is it one state or two? If it's one then would the 5.5 million Palestinians have exactly the same rights as the 7 million Israelis? What do you call the country? Do you introduce a right of return for all those displaced Palestinians over the years?

If it's two states where is the border, surely you recognise that the Palestinians need at least the 1967 border considering the size of their population. Which means Israelis abandoning all the illegal settlements?

So basically what you're saying is;

Fück it. Let the chips fall where they may. To the victor go the spoils?

Each side will need to make concessions. Each side will need to reject fundamentalism.

Jerusalem will have to be a co Capitol.

As to a united state? I who knows? It's not out of the realm of possibilities some decades down the road if both sides learn to live and respect each other.

The only problem is sharia law. I mean, doesn't it forbid homosexuality, denigrate women to second class and so on?

Nodin

mad muffin wrote: »

..............
The only problem is sharia law. I mean, doesn't it forbid homosexuality, denigrate women to second class and so on?

Fatah are a largely secular grouping. Hamas are a minority party.

hatrickpatrick

mad muffin wrote: »

There's an easy solution for this conflict.

Forget about getting back settlements, they're gone.

The Arab word unite in the recognition of Israel.

Hamas disband, all weapons are decommissioned.

Israel helps rebuild Gaza, some kind of reparations are payed and a peace treaty signed.

It worked with Egypt and Jordan. Israel and the Palestinians need to let go of the fear and hate, otherwise peace will never happen.

Translation: Everyone bow to Israel and concede every point to them.
Hardly a "solution". Why should anyone drop their pursuit of stolen property? Are you calling for the IDF to disband? Etc?

mad muffin

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Translation: Everyone bow to Israel and concede every point to them.
Hardly a "solution". Why should anyone drop their pursuit of stolen property? Are you calling for the IDF to disband? Etc?

Did the Irish government call for the disbandment of the British army or the IRA?

hatrickpatrick

mad muffin wrote: »

Did the Irish government call for the disbandment of the British army or the IRA?

Affording the IDF anywhere near the same level of legitimacy as the British Army is ridiculous. It's a terrorist organisation, simple as. In the name of "self defence" it aids property theft, harasses and kills children, indiscriminately bombs populated areas and then has the gall to claim the moral high ground.
It's Hamas with a different name, race, and flag.

mad muffin

Nodin wrote: »

Fatah are a largely secular grouping. Hamas are a minority party.

Then there's at least that then. It just has me wondering if Fatah are secular why vote for Hamas to represent you?

mad muffin

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Affording the IDF anywhere near the same level of legitimacy as the British Army is ridiculous. It's a terrorist organisation, simple as. In the name of "self defence" it aids property theft, harasses and kills children, indiscriminately bombs populated areas and then has the gall to claim the moral high ground.
It's Hamas with a different name, race, and flag.

OK then. :rolleyes:

Shakespeare's Sister

Nothing will ever make me believe people here (apart from islamophobes) genuinely support the IDF's abhorrent excessive force. Just looks like a smokescreen for pushing another agenda - e.g. not wanting to hold the same view as "lefties", being loyalist so automatically supporting the Israeli military (coz yeh, loyalist hardliners have always had so much time for the Jews and never had links to far-right organisations like Combat 18).

I despair at Hamas's rocket launches and do hold them some bit responsible, but for people to pin the blame entirely on them, as if the IDF isn't responsible itself for all the slaughter it's inflicting on innocent people... is warped. Oh but it's an army and they wear uniforms so they're ok.

john.han

mad muffin wrote: »

So basically what you're saying is;

Fück it. Let the chips fall where they may. To the victor go the spoils?

Each side will need to make concessions. Each side will need to reject fundamentalism.

Jerusalem will have to be a co Capitol.

As to a united state? I who knows? It's not out of the realm of possibilities some decades down the road if both sides learn to live and respect each other.

The only problem is sharia law. I mean, doesn't it forbid homosexuality, denigrate women to second class and so on?

I don't know how you interpreted that from my post.

I agree that both sides should reject fundamentalism and from this flows the reality that Israel cannot be a "Jewish State", and conversely I'd agree that sharia law should not be in force in Palestine.

A one state solution is impossible for one main reason. The numbers don't stack up for Israel, if Israel is to be be truly democratic the Palestinian population would outnumber the Israeli population once you allow for the Palestinian refugees to return. This is completely unpalatable for Israel and explains their continued efforts to drive Palestinians away by making their lives completely unbearable.

What Israel wants is to make refugees of most of the Palestinians, the ones that remain can become either second class citizens of an apartheid state or be banished to Bandustans, Israel gets control of all the bull**** a fictional book tells them they're entitled to and the Palestinian people never have a State. That is Israel's long game, they'll dismiss any legitimate resistance as terrorism and under this cloak of deception they'll commit atrocity after atrocity until there is no fight left in the Palestinian people.

hatrickpatrick

mad muffin wrote: »

OK then. :rolleyes:

Oh dear, I fear I've just been demolished by your outstandingly eloquent and well executed argument

mad muffin

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Oh dear, I fear I've just been demolished by your outstandingly eloquent and well executed argument

How else can one retort to your diatribe?

mad muffin

john.han wrote: »

I don't know how you interpreted that from my post.

I agree that both sides should reject fundamentalism and from this flows the reality that Israel cannot be a "Jewish State", and conversely I'd agree that sharia law should not be in force in Palestine.

A one state solution is impossible for one main reason. The numbers don't stack up for Israel, if Israel is to be be truly democratic the Palestinian population would outnumber the Israeli population once you allow for the Palestinian refugees to return. This is completely unpalatable for Israel and explains their continued efforts to drive Palestinians away by making their lives completely unbearable.

What Israel wants is to make refugees of most of the Palestinians, the ones that remain can become either second class citizens of an apartheid state or be banished to Bandustans, Israel gets control of all the bull**** a fictional book tells them they're entitled to and the Palestinian people never have a State. That is Israel's long game, they'll dismiss any legitimate resistance as terrorism and under this cloak of deception they'll commit atrocity after atrocity until there is no fight left in the Palestinian people.

Then there will have to be two states with the current borders.

Shakespeare's Sister

mad muffin wrote: »

How else can one retort to your diatribe?

What was actually wrong with it? They wear uniforms so therefore they're not terrorising people who have nowhere to go?

It doesn't matter how anyone frames it - excessive force is excessive force and shame on people pretending it's just proportionate self defence and it's not really their responsibility but entirely Hamas's. Seriously, shame.

[Deleted User]

mad muffin wrote: »

So basically what you're saying is;

Fück it. Let the chips fall where they may. To the victor go the spoils?

Each side will need to make concessions. Each side will need to reject fundamentalism.

Jerusalem will have to be a co Capitol.

As to a united state? I who knows? It's not out of the realm of possibilities some decades down the road if both sides learn to live and respect each other.

The only problem is sharia law. I mean, doesn't it forbid homosexuality, denigrate women to second class and so on?

The problem is that Israel won't fully take territories that would cause Jews to become a minority. There's a growing group in Palestine calling for a single-state with full rights for all. They're being somewhat cheeky because they know it can never happen and are trying to show up the hypocrisy of Israel.

mad muffin

Magaggie wrote: »

What was actually wrong with it? They wear uniforms so therefore they're not terrorising people who have nowhere to go?

It doesn't matter how anyone frames it - excessive force is excessive force and shame on people pretending it's just proportionate self defence and it's not really their responsibility but entirely Hamas's. Seriously, shame.

Live under the spectre of terror for long enough and you start losing your humanity.

Deleted User wrote: »

The problem is that Israel won't fully take territories that would cause Jews to become a minority. There's a growing group in Palestine calling for a single-state with full rights for all. They're being somewhat cheeky because they know it can never happen and are trying to show up the hypocrisy of Israel.

Hypocrisy? Israel never said they wanted a single state. Just a state of peace.

getzls

Israel will give them materials to re-build.

Though no doubt they will use the materials to build tunnels to attack Israel instead.

Think of the Children i hear you say?

If Hamas did they would use it to build their Children new homes.
They don't give a damn about their own kids in their eagerness to attack the Jews.

Shakespeare's Sister

getzls wrote: »

Israel will give them materials to re-build.

And that'll bring their dead back to life?

Though no doubt they will use the materials to build tunnels to attack Israel instead.

Which "they" would that be?

Think of the Children i hear you say?

Yes. Problem?

If Hamas did they would use it to build their Children new homes.

What does the above even mean? Your blind support of the IDF's excessive force just because you're a loyalist (so it's the thing you're "supposed" to do) is hilariously predictable.