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"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

Flukey

I am just about to bring my new Leap card into the strange world of public transport to test it. There are already several Leap threads going and we've already had some points about its usage raised in them. Maybe we can keep this thread for more specific feedback by the people who have actually got a card and leave the more general discussions on it to the other threads. So if you have some specific feedback from actually using the card put it in here, as briefly as possible. Then we can all use it when we are feeding back our experiences in the questionnaires we are all supposed to be getting. If anything arises here that people would like to discuss in more detail, switch to one of the other threads which already have a broad range of discussion about it that is likely to be relevant. Anyway, my Leap card and I are about to head out. Wish us luck!:D

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Annasopra

lxflyer wrote: »

LEAP Child fares on Dublin Bus are €0.95 and €1.15, the latter being the fare deducted by the righthand validator.

oh thats weird

I was teaching some foreign students last week and they were charged €0.70 on the right hand validator as a default. Perhaps they were using the trainee leap card? I didnt know until this morning such a thing existed.

LXFlyer

Schoolchild fares are €0.70 up until 17:00. That applies to the validator.

The trainee LEAP card is completely different - it is issued by language schools. It is a period pass and not pay-as-you-go.

Victor

punisher5112 wrote: »

The Leap card should be able to be debited even if it has gone over. Sort of like a ghost transaction as the company could still get back the money if that card is topped up at least if they were registered cards.

Auto top-up takes care of this.

I am getting so many these days that have over drawn and expect to be able to travel for free and this is a lot.
Usually told oh just topped it up yetserday or I had €10 on it yesterday etc etc...

Print their last 5 transactions!

Victor wrote: »

Auto top-up takes care of this.

€30 a pop up-front is simply too expensive for many (if not most) people to afford.

It needs to be brought down to €10 top-ups.

Dravokivich

bk wrote: »

€30 a pop up-front is simply too expensive for many (if not most) people to afford.

It needs to be brought down to €10 top-ups.

The issue with that though, is people will cross the threshold regularly more often.

Dravokivich wrote: »

The issue with that though, is people will cross the threshold regularly more often.

Yes, but to be honest I don't really see an issue with this, so what?

Is it really such a big issue if the threshold is crossed every two days?

TheBandicoot

Actually, quick question - if you set up auto top-up, does it work if you only use a bus(i.e can it be collected from the validator), or do I have to collect the top-up at a Payzone outlet?

goingnowhere

Yes it should work if you only use the bus.

During the setup process you will be told what the options are

Annasopra

lxflyer wrote: »

Schoolchild fares are €0.70 up until 17:00. That applies to the validator.

The trainee LEAP card is completely different - it is issued by language schools. It is a period pass and not pay-as-you-go.

So if a language student has a child leapcard they can get fares of €0.70 by swiping on the right hand side up until 5pm. what happens after 5pm? and how come Lxflyer is saying that €1.15 should be standard fare deducted?

and where do they get these trainee leap cards?

AlekSmart

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Actually, quick question - if you set up auto top-up, does it work if you only use a bus(i.e can it be collected from the validator), or do I have to collect the top-up at a Payzone outlet?

Yes,because you are not actually collecting a Top-Up...the card is embedded with the details of your Direct Debit in favour of Leapcard.
The Bus Ticket Machine then recognises that the PRE-SET DD amount has been triggered and applies that.

The essential difference is the PRE-SET arrangement which thus requires No real-time connection.

However,the current Minima are WAAY to high for the majority of Bus Only users,many of whom,as a result,are falling back into Cash Paying mode....

As an aside,one other reason for the reluctance to engage with Auto Top-Up is the rapaciousness of the Banking Sector,as not all banks offer free DD setup and maintenance....:(

AlekSmart

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

oh thats weird

I was teaching some foreign students last week and they were charged €0.70 on the right hand validator as a default. Perhaps they were using the trainee leap card? I didnt know until this morning such a thing existed.

There is some considerable confusion amongst the Language Schools at the moment,with some Schools getting their Students to purchase ADULT Leapcards.

As a result numbers of these Students are either being deducted an ADULT fare,particularly during peaks when they DO NOT REQUEST a Child fare OR they use the remote validator and are deducted a €2.50 Adult Flat Fare.

The Trainee Leapcard is available in several different formats and can be ordered in bulk from Sales Department at Dublin Bus (8743222).

What is also currently happening is that several of the less "kosher" Schools are now seeing their stocks of "recycled" Magnetic Strype Cards being rumbled and taken up...some even dating back to 2012 :eek:.

Best advice for your students is get the Appropriate Leapcard and for the main part stick with the remote validator.

AlekSmart

One would also hope that Leapcard are reading this thread.....because it is showing up some shortcomings in their Customer Information process.....;)

TheBandicoot

Their site is absolutely dreadful I have to say. It's much easier to ask here, I couldn't find the info I wanted on auto top-up on their site when I began the process of setting it up. It also still says 2011 in the footer which is one of those small things that makes an entire site look unprofessional and unmaintained.

LXFlyer

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

So if a language student has a child leapcard they can get fares of €0.70 by swiping on the right hand side up until 5pm. what happens after 5pm? and how come Lxflyer is saying that €1.15 should be standard fare deducted?

and where do they get these trainee leap cards?

Lxflyer provided both answers!!

First of all - they must be 15 years of age or younger to avail of child fares.

Provided this is the case, then they can use child leap cards. Strictly speaking as they are not schoolchildren in the normal sense, they should be paying either €0.95 or €1.15 via the driver's ticket machine. However, I suspect a blind eye would be shown to this.

The righthand validator charges €0.70 during the day but reverts to €1.15 after 17:00.

Finally, the trainee leap cards are issued directly by language schools.

Polar101

bk wrote: »

Yes, but to be honest I don't really see an issue with this, so what?

Is it really such a big issue if the threshold is crossed every two days?

20c per transaction on many bank accounts, at least. But I kind of agree that 30 euro is only a good amount if you commute regularly, and use Leap as your main ticket. Why not let the customer choose the amount they want?

Dravokivich

bk wrote: »

Yes, but to be honest I don't really see an issue with this, so what?

Is it really such a big issue if the threshold is crossed every two days?

Can only be done once a week. Someone can end up using all their credit before an auto topup comes in, if the minimun topup amount is 10 euro. Meaning they have to go and purchase topup in the end.

L1011

Dravokivich wrote: »

Can only be done once a week.

That's a fairly needless limitation also. My toll tag (which has a 30 euro minimum; but more justified as there's a potential tenner toll) can auto topup multiple times a day if needed.

markpb

MYOB wrote: »

That's a fairly needless limitation also. My toll tag (which has a 30 euro minimum; but more justified as there's a potential tenner toll) can auto topup multiple times a day if needed.

Is your toll account topped up by direct debit or debit/credit card?

devnull

if it's made lowei the potential more information the ticket machines have to store since more people will be using the feature more often.

they are already struggling

Dravokivich

MYOB wrote: »

That's a fairly needless limitation also. My toll tag (which has a 30 euro minimum; but more justified as there's a potential tenner toll) can auto topup multiple times a day if needed.

Its to minimise losses against people who fail to pay. If they didnt do it like this youd be complaining about them giving out more credit when someone hasnt paid for earlier autotopups.

Dravokivich wrote: »

Its to minimise losses against people who fail to pay. If they didnt do it like this youd be complaining about them giving out more credit when someone hasnt paid for earlier autotopups.

I don't think that is the reason, if it is then Leap are completely incompetent.

It really shouldn't take more then a day to process all debit requests. Leap isn't a small shop, given their amount of transactions they should have agreements with the banks for faster processing like most big companies have.

No, I suspect Devnull is right, that the DB ticket machines aren't capable of storing a larger number of transactions.

If so, it just goes to show how limiting and crippling of Leap the DB ticket machines are and how badly they need to be replaced.

Of course new ticket machines should also allow online top-ups to be picked up on them and almost immediately after they are applied.

wench

bk wrote: »

It really shouldn't take more then a day to process all debit requests. Leap isn't a small shop, given their amount of transactions they should have agreements with the banks for faster processing like most big companies have.

It currently takes about two weeks for the debit to go through.
My latest one was triggered on 10/7, email notification on 17/7, due for collection on 23/7, not taken yet.

wench wrote: »

It currently takes about two weeks for the debit to go through.
My latest one was triggered on 10/7, email notification on 17/7, due for collection on 23/7, not taken yet.

That is pretty awful!

Dravokivich

bk wrote: »

I don't think that is the reason, if it is then Leap are completely incompetent.

It really shouldn't take more then a day to process all debit requests. Leap isn't a small shop, given their amount of transactions they should have agreements with the banks for faster processing like most big companies have.

They don't receive transactions until the following day, so the soonest it'll be charged for is 2 days after the auto topup occurred. They don't want to end up having multiple outstanding auto topups going for a user without being paid for. Which would be possible with such a low topup amount as 10euro. Which is mentioned in their T&Cs, granted it needs to be amended. The feature is no longer "coming soon."

bk wrote: »

No, I suspect Devnull is right, that the DB ticket machines aren't capable of storing a larger number of transactions.

If so, it just goes to show how limiting and crippling of Leap the DB ticket machines are and how badly they need to be replaced.

Of course new ticket machines should also allow online top-ups to be picked up on them and almost immediately after they are applied.

It has nothing to do with the machines. This isn't a case of restricting the availability of the service due to the minimum hardware involved in providing the service.

SandyfordGuy

But you have to envisage that such machines with only 1mb of memory could in theory get full.

If you decrease the top up amount then the higher potential amount of data they would have to embed until they're downloaded at night?

I haven't heard that this is the reason why, but in theory it does add up.

Dravokivich

There were issue's with transactions filling the memory on the DB validators with their own tickets (now mainly discontinued) and leapcards for 13+ stages fares anyway. Adding a new transaction type is going to result in more transactions for it to store, sure. But that wouldn't be a factor in setting up when the process was going to work. It's based on limiting any implications of giving people credit, before they pay for it.

punisher5112

The bus as an example has wifi fitted on all and also gps which is linked and sending and recieving info all the time.

This could be used for updating during the day but also with technology this could be liable to faults and systems been down.

As I said before there should be an option on the drivers machine for selecting a fare even when the person has already gone over as this is happening a lot where the passenger trhen expects us to let them travel for nothing.
Would you geta taxi for nothing or a bar in a shop just cause you forgot to top up your card?

L1011

Dravokivich wrote: »

Its to minimise losses against people who fail to pay. If they didnt do it like this youd be complaining about them giving out more credit when someone hasnt paid for earlier autotopups.

No, it's their fault if they fail to collect. This is indefensible incompetence

SandyfordGuy

It takes a few days for a direct debit to go through, that is how direct debits work unfortunately and even when they are returned unpaid, that can take a few days as well.

Dravokivich

MYOB wrote: »

No, it's their fault if they fail to collect. This is indefensible incompetence

How, if for some reason the user was unable to pay for the direct debit?